nazis

[S1ngh]

i dont realllllllly think that all the sikhs had no idea what the nazis were doing.......i mean come on there must be some kind of media in india at the time and it was prolly all controlled by the brits......so think about it ppl are gonna have an idea wat is happening

Thats what the nazis were good at it.. ONly SS ppls knew all gas chambers.. not even common german knew about the works of SS. And also NOT even jews in germany, poland and other countries knew about the gas chambers/death camps.. Brit/american were far far away from the real truth of german ss works.. And it wasn't them who defeated germany, it was russians.. well that's another topic.. so at the end.. no-one of world knew the death camps until they landed in germany during the end of the world war II..

yeh and khalistan was offered twice. i believe once to master tara singh (????) and another time to baldev singh (im more sure on this one but i cant remember names exactly). both times it was rejected. the deal was, sikhs got khalistan, and some sikh soldiers went to protect some british empire territory elsewhere.

Sikh Raj was offered only once and that was at the end of british raj in India.. Ma

ster tara Singh got fooled by Nehru ppls and he was given fake promises and thus thats the way we lost whole punjab to pandooos. I don't remembered when was the second time sikhs were offered the khalistan..

[Gupt_Singh]

hm i cant really comment on whether or not the brits etc knew what they were doing........hmmmmmmmm maybe ur right.

In the year 1932, at the time of the second Round Table Conference, the British Government through Sardar Bahadur Shivdev Singh, then a member of the Indian Secretary of State's Council, made an informal proposal to the Sikhs that if they dissociate finally with the Congress movement, they would be given such a decisive political weightage in Punjab, as would lead to their emergin a third independent element in India and the British transfer power to inhabitants of this subcontinent. Master Tara Singh promptly rejected the tempting offer.

In the early winter of 1946, Cabinet Mission, while at Delhi communicated to the Sikhs through the Sardar Baldev Singh that if the Sikhs determined not to part company with India, the British Parliament, in their solicitude for the Sikh people, prepared to so frame the Independence Act of India, that in respect of the Sikh Homeland, wherever these areas might eventually go, in Pakistan or India, no Constitution shall be formed such as does not have the concurrence of the Sikhs. But Sardar Baldev Singh, in consultation with the Congress leaders, summarily rejected this offer, which went even beyond assurances given by the majority community in 1929 and in 1946 by Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru in Calcutta.

In April 1947, Mr. Jinnah, in consultation with certain most powerful leaders of the British Cabinet in London, offered to the Sikhs, first through Master Tara Singh and then through the Maharaja of Patiala, a sovereign Sikh state comprising areas lying in the west of Panipat and east of the left bank of the Ravi river on

the understanding that this State then confederates with Pakistan on very advantageous terms to the Sikhs. But Master Tara Singh summarily rejected this attractive offer. The Maharaja of Patiala declined to accept it in consultation with Sardar Patel and Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru.

In the month of May, 1947, precisely on the 17th May, Lord Mountbatten, Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru, Nawab Liaqat Ali Khan and Sardar Baldev Singh, flew to London on the invitation of the British Cabinet, in search of final solution of the Indian communal problem. When the Congress and the Muslim League failed to strike any mutual understanding and Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru decided to return to India, the British Cabinet leaders conveyed to Sardar Baldev Singh that if he stays behind, arrangements might be made: "So as to enable the Sikhs to have political feet of their own on which they may walk into the current of World History." Sardar Baldev Singh promtly divulged the contents of this confidential offer to Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru and in compliance with the latter's wishes, declined to stay back and flew back to India after giving the following brave message to the Press: "The Sikhs have no demands to make on the British except the demand that they should quit India. Whatever political rights and aspirations the Sikhs have, they shall have them satisfied through the goodwil of the Congress and the majority community."

The British leaders had asked Sardar Baldev Singh to stay behind because the wanted to propose to him that if Sikhs were not ready to enter into the agreement with Muslims, then the Sikhs could be given an independent state which extended from Panipat to Nanakana Sahib with extended excess upto the seashore. The Britishers were ready to station 25,000 British troops and war equipment for ten years and provide help in the administration provided the Sikhs agreed to provide 50,000 soldiers be stationed at Singapore and other colonies to help the Britishers for the next ten years. After

ten years the agreement could be reconsidered. Through this agreement the administration and defence of independent Khalistan would have been ensured and there would have been no need to enter into an agreement with either India or Pakistan for the purposes of their administration and defence. Even Muslim League had agreed this proposal because it would give then strong buffer state between Pakistan and India. It was also in the interest British empire as they would still have their feet in this sub-continent. But was unfortunate that there was no leader among the Sikhs with political vision foresight who could see the benefits such an arrangement and demand independent Homeland for the Sikhs.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

the only reason the sikhs kept turning everything down was becuase they were the most loyal revolutionaries only interested in the freedom of everyone, hindus, muslims, and sikhs from British rule, unlike the hindus and mulsims who had aspirations of "Kursis" and power. This pure love for autonomy for every religion ended up being the downfall of teh sikh nation, the sikh leaders were unable to see that the muslims and hindus were securing their futures by creating two nations, and thus they doomed their own nation's future. Our leadership was not bad morally, it was bad politically, to be a good politician one has to have a little crookedness, unfortunately the sikhs lacked this. That period will always remembered as the biggest blunder in sikh history, it is the biggest blunder because if things happened differently at that time, there would be no 1984, no delhi pogroms, no fake encounters, there would be a nishan sahib in the United Nations representing the Sikh homeland Khalistan.....oh how things would have been different, but this is no reason to get down, our past mistakes are God's will, with waaheguru's grace all the aspirations of the Panth shall bare fruit.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

i mentioned we had no morally corrupt politicians well i just remembered that baldev singh mann, unfortunately he was a mann , had a lot of businesses in calcutta and he thought that if their was a sikh homeland what would happen to all his businesses, so we did have corrupt people who were attached to maya rather than the welfare of the sikh nation. Master tara singh was inept at leading a nation and another sad thing is that the sikh masses as a whole never really spoke up, they were mere bystanders waiting to see what tara singh and the likes of baldev singh mann would do.

It is kind of like the khalistan movement right now, everyone fought in the 1980,s and early 1990s but no one still has a clear vision of khalsitan boundaries and political issues. Before everyone get all rowdy hear me out, during the struggle for independence from Britain sikhs fought valiantly and gave the most sacrifices, while the Hindu leaders as well as Muslims leaders studied future political scenarios and power struggles, sikhs were just concentrating on kicking out teh British. Hindu leaders and muslim leaders were carving out countries while the Sikhs never even thought of such a concept. The sikhs were so busy fighting an enemy which was eventually going to leave anyway after World War II, that they never bothered to consider what would happen after they did leave. Sometimes are people think with their brawn rather than with brains. Saade lok laran nu bahut tej ah par dimaag bartan wich maar kha jande ah. Bhagat singh a

nd all the other shaheeds were great in fighting the slavery but they never thought about what would happen after the British left, what would Bharat look like, who would rule, what roole would religion play, how would nations which were independent kingdoms before the British live together as a single nation?

None of these things were considered by shaheeds, but you know what they were considered by the likes of Nehru and Jinnah. We were outsmarted and outwitted, we were so busy fighting and fighting and this is why we still are fighting today. Sant Jarnail singh Ji khalsa awoke a nation to establish Khalsa raj, never instigated a sovereign nation Khalsitan but said if offered the sikhs would not deny it and make the same mistake again as in 1947. Many kharkoo singh became shaheed. Many sikhs still are in the movement. We have done a lot of fighting jsut like the shaheeds against the British, we need intellectual sikhs to sit down together and draw up a plan , a true plan of Khalistan, boundaries, political alliances, monetary issues, trade, etc, all things which are necessary for a nation to survive. THe reason many people do not take khalistan seriously is becuase it is just something we are fighting for and not something we are planning for. To build a nation takes vision, a vison sikhs do not lack, but one that we are not implementing. We need to have one khalistan revolution that says this is the boundary of khalistan, this is what it is going to be this is what we want. We lost out after 1947 because we had no plan, let us not make the same mistakes again. I understand Khalistan will only be made once we become real sant siphais and sikhs of the Guru, but we must also learn from our past mistakes of being politically inept and inactive.

Educated Sikhs living in the west need to use their education to involve themselves in such things, remember even gandhi gained popularity living in south africa, so don't think living in the west you cannot make an impact, the

world is a very small place now with media nd the internet, so let us unite and create a soveriegn nation for the sikhs, let us fix the past errors of our forefathers.

Khalistan Zindabaad!!!!

-mann kaum layee kurbaan

[Gupt_Singh]

in dec 2003 gurmeet singh aulakh (president of khalistan?) met president bushy and bush sed "i am aware of the sikh problem"

lol......i dont know if thats a big step...........but atleast we are getting recognition. personally i DONT see a khalistan happening in the near future unless there is a fat war between pakistan and india (and sikhs cud snatch a bit of land during that) or some huuuuge pro khalistani stuff goes down this year (which really realistically i dont see happening on a big enough scale)

my personal view nowadays is......true khalsa raj is gnna come before khalistan

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

oh god aulakh, i have heard so many pro and anti stuff about that guy that i do not know what to believe, but i have met Dr amarjit singh and he is quite an intelligent fellow. In honesty i don't trust any of these prokhalistani guys in America and the West, the so called leaders that is, i don't know why, i huess I have been scarred from th early 90s when i started to get interested in Sikh freedom and Many people who shouted slogans for khalsitan are kissing the INdain consulate's feet at every community event and they are all waving huge indian flags at INdian independence day parades, i guess that is the problem, just do not know who to trust except Waaheguru.......

[Deep Singh]

i know you guys are in a serious debate around Khalsa raj or Khalistan....so continue...

but i just want to say that some days ago a saw a documentary on Discovery channel about nazis and hitler....and they gave serious proof that Hitler survived in 1945....and went to Argentina (that had huge nazi-german plantations at that time) and lived there for years to come....and that FBI searched for him untill 1975(?)!!!

http://www.adolfhitler.ws/modules.ppa?op=m...=article&sid=78

[btw it is just a myth]

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

well i hope he did survive so he could have seen the jews take the nazi bastards to trial!

and see his berlin reduced to rubble and his nazi soldiers surrendering to Russian troops, oh i hope he did see all of that, suicide is a coward's way out.

[Guest mehtab]

i was once giving some thought to "khalistan in 1947"...this may sound dumb but it juz made me wonder...

as we all know that gandhi called Guru Gobind Singh a misguided patriot...let us imagine for a moment that gandhi was assasinated by a Sikh and not an RSS hindu (nathuram godse who actually shot him)...what do u think wud happen?...august 1947 india n pakistan achieve their respective independence...Jan 30 1948 gandhi gets assasinated (anniversary is coming soon )...say he was assasinated sometime in the end of 1947...october 1947 was india n pakistan's 1st war for kashmir...lets say a Sikh assasinated gandhi sometime in november 1947...the country had just witnessed a large scale bloodshed from march 1947 all the way to september 1947 with hindus n sikhs on one side and muslims on the other...now lets say gandhi gets assasinated sometime in november or december 1947 (juz presume)...what happened in november 1984 would happen in november 1947...2 months ago (september 47) sikhs were being killed by muslims and now they been targetted by hindus...immediately they wud realize that they can't survive with neither and the call for khalistan would come in early 1948...now lets say we had a leader like sant jarnail singh jee in 1948 instead of the early 80s, and instead of tara singh or baldev singh...he wud lead the movement...since india was juz born, the government wud fall to the demands of the Sikh freedom movement and we cud have had khalistan in the early 50s itself, and tod

ay we wud be celebrating 50 yrs of khalistan...

juz my stupid imagination ...dunno if i made any sense at all...anyways sorry for changing topic...plzz carry on with discussion on nazis

[S1ngh]

Aulakh is @#@#$@ cauz he is kala afghana guy.. ANd sorry to me sikhi comes first, than khalistan.. so Aulakh is now out of our circle ..

Aulakh didn't met president lately... and he is retired now..

HAHAHA Deep singh jeee i heard those version of stories too and i think loads of nazi germans were brought back to court law from South america... BUT as far as i know big nazi officers lived rest of their life in South America after WWII...