Amritdharees Marrying Non Amritdharees

[jassa]

And when did it start? By who? And most importantly what are the sources. I support Khanday Ki Pahul and very well can provide references and eye witness accounts. Keep in mind that one time idol worship in Darbar Sahib was also regarded as “maryada”.

the source is kard di paul is talked in gurubilas patshahi dasvin written in 1741 ... panth parkash by rattan singh bhangu at two places one when he wrote about creation of khalsa panth and second when they talk about rehat mareyada of sikhs ...

idol worship was never regarded as mareyada in harimander sahib ... it started after the fall of khalsa raj in punjab after 1890s ... are you trying to they introduced kard di paul in panth ???

according to you when this mareyada started there must be some year ??? looking forward for that ...

First of all, I am not a “taksali singh”. I highly respect Taksal and their seva for the panth but I will look at Gurmat reasoning to make my decision.

and truely i have just cross checked with taksali singh whom i used to take santheya from few years back ... even kard di paul is made in dam dami taksal ... any women who wish can take it ... just call them in punjab and ask ???

and what are your views on havan happened at damdami taksal last month before sant samaj took out the morcha against that sacha sauda baba ....

confirm both things if u have any near and dear taksali friend who not only claims to be taksali but have lived in taksal and learned ...

taksal also follows kard da amrit for new born kids ... before milk is given he is given amrit ... confirm it ...

Every jatha has bad people and some not so pro-gurmat elements. Nihungs eat sukha and perform jhatka and I highly oppose it. Being friends doesn’t mean having the same viewpoint. Even if a particular nihung jatha prepares karad “amrit” they must have a reason and must be able to back it up with some rationality. Always keep in mind that Sikhi is not defined by behavior of an individual or his jatha. Rather, Sikhi defines a Sikh and behavior of a Sikh sometimes may reflect the trueness of Sikhi. But a Sikh never defines Sikhi, Gurbani does.

its just that you have made ur mind ... if i say sikhs eating meat is their in guru bilas patshahi chevi u will not believe it ... again brhamvad ... its not particular nihung jathebandi i dont think patna sahib was ever controlled by nihungs ... ask their jathedar they say kard paul is since first amrit sanchar happened at patna sahib ... are all singhs outside punjab are giving false statements ???? i agree sikhi is defined by whole khalsa panth rather then few individuls ... which tried to define sikhi in 1920s ... before that whole khalsa panth was one and followed one mareyada ... and is still following same mareyada ...

Maryada at Hazoor Sahib and Patna Sahib shouldn’t be looked upon as authentic but rather unauthentic because they have been disconnected from the mainstream Sikhi of Punjab.

lol see where there are 100 % amritdhari sikhs u will not find even a single trimmed man among local sikhs ... they are following false mareyada all brhamanvad ... there ardas sikhan nu sikhi daan kesh dan is being heard ... but where sikhi mareyada is true no brhamanvad ... ardas of sikhs regarding kesh is not being heard ... 90 % of sikh youth under 20 yrs of age in mona on the land of punjab where true sikhi is followed ...

Just look at the majority people there. They are vanjaras who openly deny adopting Khalsa rehat and wish to wear dhotis and hindu sacred threads.

u havene been to any gurudwaras out side punjab i think ...

When Khalsa had to live in jungles many Gurdwaras in Punjab were left to be taken over by non-Sikhs. So who do you think managed takhats in the south where there were hardly any Sikhs until 1947?

this thing happened only in north india ... outside punjab no gurudwara was left in hands of non sikh care takers .... sikhs in south and east never had to leave their places and run in jungles ... other then punjab all gurudwars were in hands of khalsa panth since they are made ... there were plenty of sikhs out side punjab at patna and nander sahib ... even singhs have protected the main gurudwaras outside punjab .... there were four small battles regarding the land of hazoor sahib among singhs and local muslims from whome guru sahib bought the land ... and not even a single time singhs from punjab went their to help them ...

i agree with charna amrit .. khande di paul is must for sikhs .. but then how can we name our kids singhs even if they have not taken amrit ???? and who told you mai bhago kaur took amrit of kahnde di paul or kard di paul ... mai bhago took amrit from dal panth chaldi vahir ... if u can find some history regarding mai bhago do read it ... so what tradition was followed she must be given amrit according to that ....

guru sahib never made two amrits ... its one ... and thats khande di paul ... any bibi can take it any time when she is ready to come in khalsa panth and look all men as guru bhai and all bibis as guru bhen ... kard da paul is not discrimination but its mark that the person will follow all rehat mareyada and move on like every other person in khalsa panth ....

Do you really think Guru Sahib thought less of women and felt that perhaps khanday ki pahul had too much power that would be unbearable for women as supporters of kirpan amrit claim today? Guru Sahib clearly states in Gurbani that there is only one Guru, one Bani and one Amrit (not two) i.e “Nanak Amrit Ek Hai..”. So who should we listen to? Gurbani and historical references such as Vaars or mahants at Hazoor Sahib who don’t let Amritdhari women take parkarma of Shashtars? I don’t think you or any nihung jatha would have any rational answers.

yeah their is one amrit khande di paul whats ur point in here .... and there were no mahants at hazzor sahib lol ... no parikarma of shasters loooool .... and who told you this ???? seriously who told you this ... switch to some channel is their which shows even kirten live from hazoor sahib and see if women are doing parikarma of shaster kept there or not ....

Now, we come to kirpan amrit’s history. According to Bhatt Vahis Thaynesar Pargana, some Sikhs asked Guru Sahib about giving Amrit to new born babies. Guru Sahib said that when a woman became a mother, after 10 days bring her to Gurdwara (Dharamsaal), put some water in a small bowl, read JapJi Sahib and then six pauris of Anand Sahib while sliding kirpan back and forth in the water. After that put some drops in the mouth of the infant and give rest to the mother. When the child grows up give him Khanday Ki Pahul. Now, that is the history of kirpan amrit. It was introduced with means of janam sanskar. Also, make a note that no distinction has been made between a boy and a girl. The woman (mother) has to be Amritdhari or Khalsa.

this is history but incomplete ... even if a singh marries hindu/non amritdhari woman she is given kard di paul before marriage ... when a young girl 6 - 18 years ( before marriage ) goes for amrit sanskar she is given kard di paul ... she can take amrit when ever she is ready to come in khalsa panth fold ... this is complete mareyada ... since 1699

No historic reference validates kirpan amrit or even states that men cannot have sexual relations with their wives.

if u have heard sant ishar singh rara sahib sant karam singh hoti mardan and even sants from damdami taksal samparda ... they said one thing common that having sex with wife other then motive of reproducing is also kam what are ur views on this ???

No. No historic reference validates kirpan amrit

because there is no kirpans amrit there is kirpans paul .... amrit is only of khanda ... paul of kirpan is takled about at various puratan granths gurubilas panth parkash etc

here is only One Amrit and one way to become Guru-wala and that is Khanday Ki Pahul. Vaar 41 written by Bhai Gurdas Singh Ji very well states it.

and i though bhai gurdas ji lived in times of guru arjun dev ji and guru hargobind sahib ji and wrote only 40 vaars .... strange

there are two types of thing which were wrong and later introduced in some religion and for that people have some specific time period like the idols at harimander sahib we have time line of 1890 they were placed during these years ...

other type is which was their since starting but because of change in thinking during years we tend not to accept it we dont have answer when such wrong practice was introduced yet we cant take it as part of religion ... thats what is said to be teaching guru rather then learning from him ...

khalsa panth is not that old that u cant tell when i wrong practice is started in it ... from 1699 to 2007 ... cant even pick one year yet you know its brhamvad ... strange

vahegurujikakhalsa vahegurujikifathe

[Bijla Singh]

the source is kard di paul is talked in gurubilas patshahi dasvin written in 1741 ... panth parkash by rattan singh bhangu at two places one when he wrote about creation of khalsa panth and second when they talk about rehat mareyada of sikhs ...

Okay, provide quotes and page numbers. Do they say Kirpan pahul is the way for women to become Sikhs? Just so you know Sukha Singh, writer of Gurbilas, was a devotee of durga and granthi of Patna Sahib. Very dubious granth and Bhangu’s work is based on Giani Gian Singh’s Panth Parkash. Bhatt Vahis written way before these two granths only refer to kirpan pahul being used in janam sanskar and nothing more. Rehatnamas, Prem Sumarag and other references only mention Khanday Ki Pahul for both men and women. Kirpan amrit as a way of initiation is nowhere mentioned. When sanatanism heavily influenced Sikhs, kirpan amrit was started to be given to women and Khanday Ki Pahul was reserved for men only. During this period idols were brought in, Sikhs started marrying according to vedic rituals and women were prohibited from performing seva at Darbar Sahib. Some elements were abandoned but some even remain today. Knowing the exact year is irrelevant because a tradition or a practice requires gurmat reasoning. Many compositions like rattan mala etc were found in the back of many puratan saroops. No one knew when these were inserted but were taken out using gurmat reasoning. Guru Sahib rejected caste system based on reasoning not based on when it was started.

Regarding Taksal – My father was a student of Baba Kartar Singh in early 70s and then accompanied Baba Jarnail Singh for sometime but never once was kirpan amrit prepared just for women. Both sexes were given the same amrit. According to Gurbani Paath Darpan written by Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji kirpan amrit is for babies only and must be prepared and given exactly the way I have written based on Bhatt Vahis. No other purpose of kirpan amrit is mentioned. It also mentions that men and women both should be amritdhari and we know there is only one amrit. Were wives of Baba Kartar Singh and Baba Jarnail Singh given khanday da amrit after they had kids? I don’t think so.

lol see where there are 100 % amritdhari sikhs u will not find even a single trimmed man among local sikhs ... they are following false mareyada all brhamanvad ... there ardas sikhan nu sikhi daan kesh dan is being heard ... but where sikhi mareyada is true no brhamanvad ... ardas of sikhs regarding kesh is not being heard ... 90 % of sikh youth under 20 yrs of age in mona on the land of punjab where true sikhi is followed ...

Now you want to define Sikhi based on how many are monay and how many are amritdharis. Not a smart way. In early 80s majority of the Sikhs were Amritdharis in Punjab. As time changed situation changed and you want to justify an old maryada based on how many Sikhs there are today? Highly irrational. Do people at Hazoor Sahib or Patna Sahib have any historical reference? Aarti and other practices are contrary to gurmat and have no justification.

and who told you mai bhago kaur took amrit of kahnde di paul or kard di paul ... mai bhago took amrit from dal panth chaldi vahir ... if u can find some history regarding mai bhago do read it ... so what tradition was followed she must be given amrit according to that ....

Bhatt Vahis have detailed account. She was given Amrit by Guru Sahib and further Guru Sahib Himself tied dastaar on her head. Read it yourself.

any bibi can take it any time when she is ready to come in khalsa panth and look all men as guru bhai and all bibis as guru bhen ... kard da paul is not discrimination but its mark that the person will follow all rehat mareyada and move on like every other person in khalsa panth ..

Think about what you are saying. A woman takes kirpan pahul and follows the rehat and becomes a Sikh. Then what is the purpose of taking Khanday Da Amrit if she has already become a Sikh? If she doesn't become a Sikh then what is her status? Why don't monay become Sikhs by taking kirpan amrit and then take Khanday Ki Pahul to become Khalsa? Don’t come with the lame excuse of Khalsa and Sikh being two different identities. No historic reference can prove this. I have already addressed this in another thread of Monay being Sikhs. Can you provide any reference that kirpan pahul must only be given to women as a way of initiation into Sikhi? I need written documented proof not what taksalis these days are saying.

when a young girl 6 - 18 years ( before marriage ) goes for amrit sanskar she is given kard di paul ... she can take amrit when ever she is ready to come in khalsa panth fold ... this is complete mareyada ... since 1699

Any historic document proving this? No historic document says that Guru Sahib only asked for a male’s head for Khanday Da Amrit and then five female heads for kirpan amrit.

because there is no kirpans amrit there is kirpans paul .... amrit is only of khanda ... paul of kirpan is takled about at various puratan granths gurubilas panth parkash etc

There is no difference between Pahul and Amrit. Following references prove that Amrit is referred to as Pahul. Also, only one Amrit or Pahul is mentioned for both sexes. Kirpan amrit is not mentioned at all because such did not exist back then as a way of initiation. Kirpan amrit was for janam sanskar and still is.

ਸਭ ਦੇਸਨ ਕੋ ਹੁਕਮ ਪਠਾਇਆ । ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਫੁਰਮਾਯਾ ।

‘ਸਿੰਘ’ ਸੰਙਿਆ ਕਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਬੁਲਾਵੋ । ਜਪੋ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਵੋ ।

ਅਚਰਜ ਬੀਰ ਪੰਥ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕੀਆ । ਦੇਗ ਤੇਗ ਦੋਨੋ ਤਿਨ ਦੀਆ ।

(ਮਹਿਮਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼, ਬਾਵਾ ਸਵਰੂਪ ਚੰਦ)

ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਰਹਤ ਯਹ ਜਾਨ, ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਛਕੇ । ਸੋਈ ਸਿੰਘ ਪ੍ਰਧਾਨ, ਅਵਰ ਨ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਜੋ ਲਏ ।

ਪਾਂਚ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੋ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦੇਵੈਂ । ਤਾਂ ਕੋ ਸਿਰ ਧਰਿ ਛਕਿ ਪੁਨ ਲੇਵੈ । (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਦੇਸਾ ਸਿੰਘ)

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਸਿਖ ਲੇਇ, ਰਹਤ ਕਮਾਵਹਿ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ।

ਜੋ ਬੇੜਾ ਸੋ ਸੇਵਿਆ, ਔਰ ਨ ਭਰਮਹਿ ਪੰਥ । (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸਿੰਘ)

ਜੋ ਕੋਊ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਿਖ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਲੇ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਮੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ । (ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਸੌ ਸਾਖੀ, 63)

ਪੀਵਹੁ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਖੰਡੇਧਾਰ ਹੋਇ ਜਨਮ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ।

ਗੁਰ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਕੀਨੀ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਮਨਮੁਖੀ ਦੁਹੇਲਾ । (ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ)

If women can take khanday ki pahul and become khalsa then this totally negates the purpose of having kirpan amrit. Puratan sources clearly explain how Amrit was prepared and what banis were recited and then how Amrit was given and what rehat was explained. For kirpan amrit no such document exists. Further, no document states that sexual abstinence is required after a woman takes Amrit. Otherwise it sounds like a woman can become a Sikh or Khalsa after has been used for sexual purpose.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[jassa]

Just so you know Sukha Singh, writer of Gurbilas, was a devotee of durga and granthi of Patna Sahib. Very dubious granth and Bhangu’s work is based on Giani Gian Singh’s Panth Parkash.

sukha singh devotee of durga loool why because he didnt spoke NEO SIKH language in his writings .... and let me tell u one thing bhangus granth which according to you was based on geyani geyan singhs panth parkash wrote it years before i thing geyani geyan singh would have born .... which years ur living in ???? bhangus granth is prachin panth parkash geyani geyan singhs in navin panth parkash ... even its cleared from names ....

from 1700 to early 1850s their was amrit sanchar only at 4 takths ONLY .... u must know that !!!!

and 5 th is budha dal and very rarely at other places once in 20 - 25 years ... all four takths supported kard di paul for women ...

budhadal supported kard di paul ...

even when bhai mani singh was head granthi of harimander sahib kard di paul was their .... ask their gaddi going in amritsar ...

baba deep singh was brhamised who took amrit from guru gobind singh themself ... their jathebandi misl shaheedan approved kard di paul ...

damdami taksal got brhamised whome brhamans think is anti brhaman ... lol ...

nirmale who produced endless bhagats in sikh panth is brhamnaised as kards paul is in them to ....

hoti mardan bhai dayea singhs jathebandi ...

even baba bidhi chands jathebandi has kards amrit !!!!

even only the names above is enough to prove what rehat and whats not ...

every one is brhamised only one or two jathebandis born in 1930 offshoots of british and true sikhs ... rest all are brhamised ... only reason is all of above have no access to multimedia ... to scan and put only those rehatnames on who can support their views like many in here .... but times changing ...

When sanatanism heavily influenced Sikhs, kirpan amrit was started to be given to women and Khanday Ki Pahul was reserved for men only. During this period idols were brought in, Sikhs started marrying according to vedic rituals and women were prohibited from performing seva at Darbar Sahib.

idol were brought in 1870s so according to kard di paul was started in this time only .... but no idols were nor their in kessgarh sahib ... why kard di paul was started their ???? sikhs started marriages according to vedic rituals .... i have seen many hindus marrying in gurudwaras but not a sikh marrying in mandir yet nor i think anyone else has on this site .... where are u getting all these points from ???? lol

regarding taksal dont say i think so ... visit it and ask ... why not confirm on first hand then thinking !!!! u must have links there ...

Now you want to define Sikhi based on how many are monay and how many are amritdharis. Not a smart way. In early 80s majority of the Sikhs were Amritdharis in Punjab. As time changed situation changed and you want to justify an old maryada based on how many Sikhs there are today? Highly irrational. Do people at Hazoor Sahib or Patna Sahib have any historical reference? Aarti and other practices are contrary to gurmat and have no justification.

yeah they have historical reference they are takths after all both have linage since guru gobind singh ji unlike akaltakth sahib .... u can call it anything u want ... and now aarti is also anti gurmat .... are u a fan of kalla afgan of some one ???? well chardikalla of people tell how much are they in sikhi ... i person following false sikhi cant be in more chardikalla then person following true sikhi ... if u dont agree with that ... if u brhamanised sikh can lead u in more chardikalla with rehat then gurus sikh ... then i think i should stop it here !!!

Bhatt Vahis have detailed account. She was given Amrit by Guru Sahib and further Guru Sahib Himself tied dastaar on her head. Read it yourself.

yeah i would like to read it any link !!!

Think about what you are saying. A woman takes kirpan pahul and follows the rehat and becomes a Sikh. Then what is the purpose of taking Khanday Da Amrit if she has already become a Sikh?

yeah in same way a kid given kards paul becomes singh .... so that makes even kards paul for new born kids invalid according to you ????

Don’t come with the lame excuse of Khalsa and Sikh being two different identities.No historic reference can prove this.

so according to you a person who dont take amrit is not even sikh ???? wow thats kind of kattarta i always wanted to see among people .... where u keep bhai khniya ji bhai nandlal and other sikhs of gurujis time ???

what about veer hakikat rai who got shaheedi 2 days before bhai tarru singh for helping singhs ... what about gurbaksh das whom guru sahib gave seva sambhal of anadpur sahib before living the city .... what a kattar guy .... and prove what ??? lol i just had

Can you provide any reference that kirpan pahul must only be given to women as a way of initiation into Sikhi?

if even i can find you documented proof and scan it then post it ... it would take me a 4 - 5 hours but it will take u 2 seconds oh that brhamnvad ... whose author ... oh he worshiped shiva ... but yet i will do it once i reach home ... dont worry about that ....

Any historic document proving this? No historic document says that Guru Sahib only asked for a male’s head for Khanday Da Amrit and then five female heads for kirpan amrit.

lol are you frustrated or what ???? a normal human cant make such statements !!!!

ਸਭ ਦੇਸਨ ਕੋ ਹੁਕਮ ਪਠਾਇਆ । ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਫੁਰਮਾਯਾ ।

‘ਸਿੰਘ’ ਸੰਙਿਆ ਕਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਬੁਲਾਵੋ । ਜਪੋ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਵੋ ।

ਅਚਰਜ ਬੀਰ ਪੰਥ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕੀਆ । ਦੇਗ ਤੇਗ ਦੋਨੋ ਤਿਨ ਦੀਆ ।

(ਮਹਿਮਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼, ਬਾਵਾ ਸਵਰੂਪ ਚੰਦ)

so why not girls should be named singh also !!! after khande di paul ... according to this hukam nama it should be singh ... only two three lines dont prove anything read full hukamname instead read what u like and close eyes on other !!!!

are they from that amrit world guy ???? it looks like ....

For kirpan amrit no such document exists.

says who ???? visit any press other then 1920 jathebandis u will get many documents !!! with full rehat .... or just wait for weekends once i go home i will get you scaned copies .... not copy paste material ...

looking at kattar ta among guys its thanks to akal purkh who has saved 3 out 5 takths from such jathebandis where sikh saroop sikh rehni behni and sikh rehat mareyada is still same as it was in 1699 .... partakh nu parman di load nahi !!!

fathe :wub:

[Bijla Singh]

budhadal supported kard di paul ...

even when bhai mani singh was head granthi of harimander sahib kard di paul was their .... ask their gaddi going in amritsar ...

baba deep singh was brhamised who took amrit from guru gobind singh themself ... their jathebandi misl shaheedan approved kard di paul ...

damdami taksal got brhamised whome brhamans think is anti brhaman ... lol ...

nirmale who produced endless bhagats in sikh panth is brhamnaised as kards paul is in them to ....

hoti mardan bhai dayea singhs jathebandi ...

even baba bidhi chands jathebandi has kards amrit !!!!

even only the names above is enough to prove what rehat and whats not ...

every one is brhamised only one or two jathebandis born in 1930 offshoots of british and true sikhs ... rest all are brhamised ... only reason is all of above have no access to multimedia ... to scan

and put only those rehatnames on who can support their views like many in here .... but times

changing

So this is your reference? They do therefore it must be right? Go ask them for references from historical records. Hindus have been practicing caste system for thousands of years it must be a right practice according to your logic.

sikhs started marriages according to vedic rituals .... i have seen many hindus marrying in gurudwaras but not a sikh marrying in mandir yet nor i think anyone else has on this site .... where are u getting all these points from ???? lol

Read any book that highlights Sikhs during Ranjit Singh’s kingdom and later. Sikhs took rounds around fire. Anand Marriage Act of 1909 gave approval to Sikhs to marry according to Sikhi.

regarding taksal dont say i think so ... visit it and ask ... why not confirm on first hand then thinking !!!! u must have links there ...

Visit and ask? This is neither my way of research nor it is rational in any way. I asked my father and have studied what Taksali leader Baba Gurbachan Singh has written and what Taksal’s jathedars practiced. If taksali literature doesn’t mention kirpan amrit then why ask today’s taksalis?

yeah they have historical reference they are takths after all both have linage since guru gobind singh ji unlike akaltakth sahib .... u can call it anything u want ... and now aarti is also anti gurmat .... are u a fan of kalla afgan of some one ????

Can this lineage be proved using historical references? No. Aarti done at Hazoor Sahib has been rejected by Guru Sahib in Gurbani.

yeah i would like to read it any link !!!

Guru Kiyan Sakhiyan by Piara Singh Padam. Get a copy.

yeah in same way a kid given kards paul becomes singh .... so that makes even kards paul for new born kids invalid according to you ????

I never said such. Karad amrit is not a way to initiate someone into Sikhi. Only Khanday Ki pahul is.

so according to you a person who dont take amrit is not even sikh ???? wow thats kind of kattarta i always wanted to see among people .... where u keep bhai khniya ji bhai nandlal and other sikhs of gurujis time ???

Only Amritdharis are Sikhs. Before you jump the gun read my posts in other thread first. There exists only one identity of Sikh not multiple. I have already addressed how people became Sikhs such as above. You need to read my posts carefully. They took charan amrit before 1699.

what about veer hakikat rai who got shaheedi 2 days before bhai tarru singh

Bhai Hakikat Singh – relative of Baba Banda Singh and related to Sikh families. Read Tabay Roas Jageyo by Sukhpreet Singh.

If you have any proofs then provide them otherwise readers can decide for themselves.

[N30S1NGH]

There is no puratan hakumnama against patit (sehajdhari sikhs) however there is puratan document which accepts sehajdhari sikhs in panth:

I am simply quoting this from sikhawareness forum and i m not promoting sehajdhari sikhs nor i m promoting ban against them.

Gurfateh !

The 'rehatnama' you are looking for is the 'Vajib Ul Arz' - or 'reasonable request' - This document is found in Bhai Mani Singh's 'Bhagat ratna wali'

and is in the form of ten questions - said to have been asked of Guru Gobind Singh by Sehaj dhari Sikhs - and Guru Sahib's response.

It is quite controversial - the version I am posting - an entry from Kahn Singh Nabha's Mahan Kosh - is prefaced by Kahn Singh saying that this cannot be the writing of Bhai Mani Singh and Guru Sahib would never have made such 'Hukums'.

The main controversial points are to do with the keeping of kesh (the document allows the trimming of kesh to an 'acceptable' length) and various ceremonies requiring the presence of a 'Brahmin'

It must be remembered that 'Mahan Kosh' was written at the height of the Singh Sabha Movement and it could be argued Kahn Singh was its chief apologist.

Like always it's for you to make your own decision.

hope this helps in someway !

Ranjit Singh 'Freed'

Here is the entry (in my copy of Mahan Kosh - 2000 edition, its on page 901) this version is from srigranth.org

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia

Entry - ਵਾਜਿਬੁਲ ਅਰਜ

ਅ਼. __ ਵਾਜਿਬੁਲ- ਅ਼ਰਜ. ਯੋਗ੍ਯ ਪ੍ਰਾਰਥਨਾ. ਵਿਨਯਪਤ੍ਰ। ੨. ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਸਾਖੀ “ਭਗਤਾਵਲੀ” ਵਿੱਚ ਲਿਖੀ ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦੀ ਬੇਨਤੀ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਦਸ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਨ ਦਸ਼ਮੇਸ਼ ਦੇ ਪੇਸ਼ ਕੀਤੇ ਗਏ ਹਨ. ਵਾਜਬੁਲਅਰਜ ਦੇ ਪਾਠ ਤੋਂ ਮਲੂਮ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਨਾ ਇਹ ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਕਲਮ ਤੋਂ ਲਿਖੀ ਗਈ ਹੈ ਅਰ ਨਾ ਕਲਗੀਧਰ ਦੇ ਅਜੇਹੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਪਾਠਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਗ੍ਯਾਨ ਲਈ ਇਸ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਸਲ ਪਾਠ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ. (ੳ) ਸਮੇ ਵਿਆਹ ਦੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਵੇਦਪਾਠੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬੁਲਾਇਕੈ ਵਿਵਾਹ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਾਂਡੀਆਂ ਪੜ੍ਹਾਇਕੈ ਵਿਵਾਹ ਕਰਦੇ ਸਾਂ. ਤੇ ਹੁਣ ਸਿੱਖ¹ ਕਹਿਂਦੇ ਹਨ- ਤੁਸੀਂ ਆਨੰਦ ਪੜ੍ਹਕੇ ਵਿਵਾਹ ਕਰੋ, ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਾ ਬੁਲਾਵੋ. ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਅਬ ਜਿਵੈ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ. ਦਸਤਖਤ ਖਾਸ ਹੋਏ- ਪਹਿਲੇ ਆਨੰਦ ਪੜ੍ਹਨਾ, ਅਰਦਾਸ ਕਰਨੀ, ਪਿੱਛੇ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਥੀਂ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾਂ ਜਿਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਪੜਾਵਦੇ ਆਏ ਹੋਂ, ਤਿਵੈ ਪੜਾਵਣਾ, ਸੰਸਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਨਾ. (ਅ) ਸਾਹਿਬਾ ਦਾ ਜੋ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਪੰਜਾਂ ਮੇਲਾਂ- ਧੀਰਮਲੀਏ, ਰਾਮਰਈਏ, ਮੀਣੇ, ਮਸੰਦ, ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮ- ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਣਾ. ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮ ਕੌਣ ਹੈ? ਬਚਨ ਹੋਇਆ ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮ ਸਰੇਵੜੇ ਅਨੀਸੁਰਵਾਦੀ ਹੈਨ. ਨੰਦਚੰਦ ਸੰਘੇ ਦੇ ਭੀ ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮ ਹੈਨ. ਪੱਕਾ ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮ. ਤੁਰਕ ਹੈ. ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਅਰਦਾਸ ਕੀਤੀ- ਕੋਈ ਬਪਾਰ ਦੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ, ਕੋਈ ਮੁਸੱਦੀ ਪੇਸ਼ਾ ਹੈ, ਵਿਹਾਰ ਦਾ ਸਦਕਾ ਸਭ ਕਿਸੇ ਦਾ ਆਨ ਮੇਲ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ. ਤਾਂ ਖਾਸ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਪਹਿਲੇ ਪੁੱਛਕੇ ਵਰਤਣ ਕਰਣੀ, ਜੋ ਭੁੱਲ ਭੁਲਾਂਵੇ ਵਰਤੋਂ, ਤਾਂ ਅਰਦਾਸ ਕਰਵਾਇ ਲੈਣੀ. (ੲ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਅਸੀਂ ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਜੋ ਹੈਸਾਂ, ਸੋ ਮਾਤਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਦੇ ਮਰਣੇ ਉੱਪਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਕਰਮ ਭਦ੍ਰ ਜੋੜੀ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੀ ਰੀਤਿ ਸੀ, ਜੋ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੈਸਾਂ. ਤੇ ਹੁਣ ਸਿੱਖ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ- ਜੋ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ਹੈ, ਹੁਣ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਏਹੁ ਰੀਤਾਂ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੀਆਂ ਨਾ ਕਰਿਆ ਕਰੋ. ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ. ਤਾਂ ਬਚਨ ਹੋਇਆ, ਖਾਸ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਭੱਦਨ (ਭਦ੍ਰ) ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਨਾ, ਹੋਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤੂਤ ਜੈਸੀ ਦੇਸਚਾਲ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਕਰਕੈ ਬਖਸਾਇ ਲੈਣਾ. (ਸ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸਾਹੁ! ਸਮੇ ਵਿਵਾਹ ਅਤੇ ਖਿਆਹ ਸਰਾਧ ਦੇ ਦਿਨ ਅਸੀਂ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਜਨ ਕਰਾਂਵਦੇ ਹੈਸਾਂ, ਹੁਣ ਸਿੱਖ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ, ਜੋ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਛਕਾਵਣਾ. ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਇਆ- ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭੀ ਅਤਿਥਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭਲੀ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਕਰਕੈ ਸਭਸ ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦ ਛਕਾਇਆ ਕਰੋ. (ਹ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਵਖਤ ਜੰਞੂ ਪਾਵਣੇ ਦੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਨੂੰ ਉਸਤਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਭਦ੍ਰ ਕਰਾਂਵਦੇ ਸਾਂ, ਹੁਣ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਕੀਚੈ. ਹੁਕਮ ਤੇ ਖਾਸ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਜੋ ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਬੇਟਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਦੇਣੀ. (ਕ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਅੱਗੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਅਸਥੀਆਂ ਗੰਗਾ ਭੇਜਦੇ ਸਾਂ ਹੁਣ ਸਿੱਖ ਮਨੇ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਜਿਵੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ. ਬਚਨ ਤੇ ਖਾਸ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਜੇ ਪਹੁਚਾਇ ਸਕੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਅਸਤੀਆਂ ਪਹੁਚਾਇ ਦੇਣੀਆਂ ਅਰ ਜੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਜੁੱਧ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਿੱਥੇ ਹੁਕਮਸਤਿ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਸੋਈ ਕੁਰੁਛੇਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ. ਇਕੇ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਕੀ ਚਰਣਧੂਰਿ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਾਇ ਦੇਣੀਆਂ, ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਚੌਫੇਰੇ, ਏਸੇ ਥਾਂ ਓਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਵੈਗੀ. (ਖ) ਅਸੀਂ ਜੋ ਆਮਿਲ ਪੇਸ਼ਾ ਕਚਹਿਰੀਆਂ ਜਾਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਦਾੜੀਆਂ ਕੇਸ ਇੱਕੋ ਜੇਹੇ ਕੈਂਚੀਆਂ ਨਾਲ ਕਟਵਾਇ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਸਾਂ, ਹੁਣ ਜਿਵੈ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਵੈਂ ਕਰੀਏ. ਹੁਕਮ ਤੇ ਖਾਸ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਜੇਹੜੇ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀ ਸਿੱਖ ਹੋਂ, ਜੇ ਕੇਸਧਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਤਰਾਂ ਸਾਬਤ ਰੱਖੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਭਲਾ ਹੈ, ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਜਰੂਰ- ਮਾਤ੍ਰ ਵਧੀਕ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੋ ਬਰਾਬਰ ਕਰਵਾਇ ਛੱਡਣੇ, ਫੇਰ ਬਖਸਾਇ ਲੈਣਾ. ਜੋ ਕੇਸਧਾਰੀ ਇਹ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੈਗਾ, ਓਹ ਸਿੱਖ ਨਹੀਂ. (ਗ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਜੋ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮਾ ਪੰਜਾਂ ਮੇਲਾਂ ਦੇ ਮੁਹ ਕੋਈ ਲੱਗੈ ਨਹੀਂ. ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਆਂਵਦਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਮੁਹ ਲਗ ਜਾਵੈ, ਤਾਂ ਕਿਉਂ ਕਰ ਵਚਨ ਹੈ? ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਇਆ- ਰਿਦਾ ਸੁੱਧ ਗੁਰਾਂ ਵੱਲ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ, ਆਂਵਦਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਮੁਹ ਲਗ ਜਾਵੈ, ਤਾਂ ਕੀ ਹੈ? ਵਰਤਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਨੀ. (ਘ) ਜੇਹੜੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਗੰਗਾ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਇਸਨਾਨ ਨੂੰ ਗਏ ਹਨ, ਜੋ ਇਸਨਾਨ ਕਰਕੈ ਆਵਨ ਤਾਂ ਕਿਵਕਰ ਵਰਤੀਏ? ਵਚਨ ਹੋਆ- ਹਿਤ ਪਿਆਰ ਨਾਲ ਓਨਾ ਨਾਲ ਵਰਤਣਾ ਬਹੁਤੀ ਦਿੱਕਤ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਰਨੀ ਭਾਈ ਸਿੱਖੋ! ਤੁਸਾਡੇ ਉੱਪਰ ਸਾਡਾ ਏਹ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੈ- ਪੰਜਾਂ ਮੇਲਾਂ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਨਾਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਣਾ, ਕਿਉਂ ਜੋ ਓਨਾ ਦਾ ਮੇਲ ਕਰਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਸਿਦਕ ਘਟਦਾ ਹੈ. ਕੋਈ ਓਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਭੀ ਮੇਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਚਾਹੇ, ਸੋ ਮੇਲ ਲੈਣਾ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਦੇਣਾ, ਭਜਨ ਕਰਣਾ, ਧਰਮ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਤ ਕਰਣੀ ਤੇ ਵੰਡ ਖਾਣਾ, ਸਿੱਖ ਦੀ ਰਹਿਰਾਸਿ ਏਹੋ ਹੈ. (ਙ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਅੱਗੇ ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਹੁਕਮਸਤਿ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਸੀ, ਤਾਂ ਅਸੀਂ ਪੰਡਿਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬੁਲਾਇਕੈ ਗਰੁੜਪੁਰਾਣ ਵਚਾਂਵਦੇ ਸਾਂ, ਤੇ ਦਸਗਾਤ੍ਰ ਕਰਾਂਵਦੇ ਸਾਂ, ਤੇ ਹੁਣ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਂਵਦੇ ਕਹਿਁਦੇ ਹੈਨ- ਜੋ ਧਾਗਾ ਤੇ ਲੰਗੋਟ ਰੱਖੋ ਤੇ ਦਸਗਾਤ੍ਰ ਕਰੋ ਤਾਂ ਅਸੀਂ ਆਵਨੇ ਹਾਂ, ਜਿਵੇਂ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਕੀਚੈ. ਵਚਨ ਤੇ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਤੁਸਾਂ ਸਿਦਕ ਤੇ ਤਕੜੇ ਰਹਿਣਾ, ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਭੋਗ ਪਵਾਣਾ ਤੇ ਪੰਜਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਸਹਸਕ੍ਰਿਤੀ ਸਲੋਕਾਂ ਦੀ ਕਥਾ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਥੀਂ ਸੁਣਨੀ. ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਭੀ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਜੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਾਸਾ ਹੋਵੈਗਾ, ਤੇ ਤੁਸਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭੀ ਗਿਆਨ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋਵੈਗਾ. ਸਿਦਕ ਜੇਹਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮ ਜੇਹਾ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਕੋਈ ਨਹੀਂ.

¹ਖੰਡੇ ਦਾ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਕੇਸਧਾਰੀ ਸਿੰਘ.

[N30S1NGH]

What you guys think bhagat kabir, ravidasa, namdev, sain, trilochan, ramanad, bhagat fareed, bhagat sadhna were? were they not sikhs yet maintaining outer garb (customs) of their culture (rehna-behna) to some extent?

True bhagats which are included in sri guru granth sahib ji didnt follow socio-religious boundaries of their own dharam (ie- islam, hinduism) they belong mystical orders of their dharam ie- sufi, shavism, advait vedanta.

All the bhagats which are included in sri guru granth sahib ji were jevan mukht, they didnt belong to any specific dharam, they were not hard core followers of hindu panth nor they were rehitdhari khalsa, they were all almast fakirs who didnt gave two hoots about socio-religious-economic boundaries of their own religions or others.

In my eyes, all the bhagats were sikhs didnt need to be khalsa in order to get jevan mukhti, they were already jevan mukht you can tell that by their gurbani included in sri guru granth sahib ji.

Sikh and Khalsa are same when it comes to avastha but these are relative terrms ie- different type of intiation for eg- kabir panthis or sufi farid followers their intitation may be different than khalsa but internal bhramgyan amrit is one, they are relative terms could be both applied in socio-religious circle (panthic maryada) as well mystical traditions of any dharam.

For example:

In Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib:

Atam Ras Neh Jannehi Sio Haie Khalsa Dev,

Prab Meh Mo Meh Tas Meh Ranchak Naeh Bhaiv ||

The one who has entered the sphere of atma(self), he alone is worthy of the title of the khalsa, he becomes one with me the guru and ultimately God.There is no difference.

Above quote can be applied both ways to a) an khalsa who have taken intiation of khanda batta amrit and applied guru maharaj sikhi in his/her life and tasted atam ras.

Above quote also dedicated (if you look at it more antriv(Deeply) arths to b) anyone of any dharam abroad away from socio-religious circle(panthic circle) to anyone who has realize his own true self(atma).

Now lets look at this quote:

Here Guru Gobind singh ji directly explains Khalsa.

"The Khalsa is my exceptional Image,

In the Khalsa ever resides my Spirit.

The Khalsa is my Beloved and Venerable Master,

The Khalsa is my divine Protector.

The Khalsa is my Father and Mother,

The Khalsa is my body and soul.

The Khalsa is embodiment of true and perfect Guru.

The Khalsa is my Gallant and Knightly friend.

I have stated the truth without an iota of misconstruction.

God and Guru Nanak are to this my witnesses."

Guru Gobind Singh, Sarb Loh Granth, (MS), 519-526.

This quote looks like more dedicated towards khalsa from socio-religious circle than from mystical circle.

Guys, if gurmat gursikhi marg was that simple then we wouldnt need bhramgyanis in the panth, any tom, di ck , harry scholar can decipher gurmat gursikhi marg.

Last but not least, here are few words of my teacher, he puts all well together- listen to it:

http://www.gurmarag.net/SikhAwareness/Audi...0is%20anadi.mp3

[N30S1NGH]

defaniation of sikh is relative on many levels- eg- panthic level (as per rehat maryada), adhyatamic level (outside panth), on a level where one is simple student is learner (sikh) of an Guru (bringing divine light into darkness).

Gurbani when it does updesh to this world , is doing it to everyone not just one selective religion, mesasge of gurbani - is to find guru, take amrit, take naam, doing kaamiya of that naam and merge with vahiguroo with help of naam by rising above from panj kosh, panj indrai's, panj karam indra's, mann, chit, budhh, ahankar..

What does it mean for Guru khalsa panth?

Accepting sri guru granth sahib ji as eternal guru , take khanda da amrit and take naam from panj pyares.

What does it mean for rest of the world?

Thats up to them once they have seek inspiration from gurbani. Guru Sahiban never force them to come to the khalsa panth fold, if they wish they could do so if not they have every right to find themselves an genuine (bhramgyani guru just like bhagat kabir ji did) and take naam from him/her and still maintain to deserve an title of " sikh" which gurbani talks about. If someone thinks bhagats were not sikhs of their own genuine guru's then GOD HELP THEM !

Title of sikh you see depending on the right context is not limited to "Guru Khalsa Panth" only. And off course i m not saying panthic defaniation of sikh is wrong or invalid but i m saying defaniation of sikh is not limited to Guru Khalsa Panth as gurbani is vary proof of it.

[Matheen]

I know this thread is old but I feel I need to correct something written by Jassa - Bhai Daya Singh Ji's samparda only prepare Khande da Pahul, they don't and never have prepared 'Kard di Pahul' - same goes for Damdami Taksal.

[MrLanda]

Jassa u talk truth, if ppl dont want to believe it, thats there karam, considered yourself blessed that you possess power(knowledge=power). i understand it gets annoying for me too, when trying to explain puratan traditions, but modern mainstram ppl r deluded by the maryada created by the british.

if you are unsure if you can take amrit because your wife or partner isnt ready, you go and take it, its your karam, your destiny is your destiny. you came alone and you are going alone, inspire and influence your partner. but the choice is hers, dont have an akj forceful maryada, where you force some1 to take amrit, inspire them to take amrit. if they dont, thats there bad karam.

just a thought for those ppl who question puratan maryada, do you think when Guru Gobind singh created the khalsa in 1699, when he summoned every1 to be at anandpur sahib, he said to every1 'oh bring your wifes along', nobody knew what he was guna do, they didnt bring there wifes. it was estimated over 20,000 ppl took amrit, and no1 can ever say it was 10k men, and 10k women. men took it and became singhs, they went bak home to there wife and children, and when there wifes were ready, then received kirpan da amrit. women were women, they had children, and experienced things men dont.

[K. SINGH DEEP]

WAHEGURU JI KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

KHANDEY BATE DA AMRIT is not the JANEOO OF BAAHMAN

which is not allowed to women.GURBANI tells us " ISS

JAG MEH EK PURAKH HAI HOR SAGLI NAAR SABAAEE".When

except AKAAL PURAKH all are NAAR(females)than no body

can take AMRIT if it is not allowed to women.My dear

brothers and sisters,in REHATNAAMA it is told:-

"SINGH SOI PARVAAN KHANDE KI PAHUL CHHAKE,

SOI SINGH PARDHAAN AVAR NA PAHUL JO LAHE."

Than AMRIT of KIRPAAN(for women) has come where from

whereas DASAM PAATSHAH made and ordered KHANDE DI PAHUL

for each and every SIKH(irrespective of sex,caste,colour

and creed).So please stop telling any thing like this

which can cause any ambiguity in KHALSA PANTH which is

already facing many ideological crisis due to self made

JATHEDARS, SANTS ,DERAS,MARYADAS etc. etc.