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Oldest Surviving Rehat Manuscript (1718/1719 Ad)


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@ dalsingh - That makes sense! :D

It makes you think how much responsibility (power?) those who sit at The Akal Takhat have to bear, whereby they can issue edicts to the followers of Sikhism according to their interpretations of certain rehats. It is a huge responsibility as they shape how Sikhism evolves during the passage of history. One would hope their interpretations are what Guru Ji intended.

Yep I agree, but given the misdeeds that are occuring so high up in the Akal Takht and the freemasonic links the Gurdwarras have it is difficult to trust these days. I'd say that people need to question instructions not portrayed directly by the gurus, trusted members of their courts or true sants and whether they are in line with Truth. If they are not, the instructions are most likely wrong.

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Why should we believe in anyone else when guru sahib's writing is there.Other sources are secondary. The emphasis of my posts was on year of writing

of Bhai Chaupa singh's rehtanama being 1700 AD based on internal evidence. That was the thrust of my arguement and not authenticity of its contents except that

i commented on term Brahmin.

Any way now you have mentioned Chaupa singh's rehatnama about Guru sahib invoking kali. Can you point out where did he write this?

By the way given below is your post which asked about Guru sahib invoking kali.It does not mention anything about Chaupa singh's rehatnama. It is a general question in the end.

Quote

Are you telling that we have different versions of tankahnama?There is a very big difference between what you are writing here and what is contained in Padam's book. It is not a minor difference.

So how many different tankahnamas we have now. I thought there was only one.

Kali is a totally seperate entity to Matha Durga, she was bron out of Durgas third eye, drank blood and was generally dark/kaljug, whereas Durga was good.

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The position with Jaap Sahib is also interesting and McLeod does mentions that all the rehats mention this bani as part of the morning liturgy, barring tanakhah-nama.

One should not forget that Bhai Nand lal also wrote a rehtanama. That is separate from Tankahnama.

That mentions Jaap sahib with Japji.

He writes

Waheguru Punn Mantra su jap, Kar ishnan Parre Jap, jaap

So one should not ignore that.

I am still waiting for my answer from Dal singh101 to show me where did Chaupa singh wrote that Guru sahib invoked

Kali/Durga? Is it really there or just an imagination.

Reference

Dalsingh101 wrote

Do you believe dasmesh pita invoked Kali/Durga on the eve of creating the Khalsa??

The rehtanama extract posted here is not correct. There are no verse numbers. There is no orientation of verses,

Verses are wrong. There is only one version of tankahnama of bhai nand lal. Everyone follows that.

You need to correct this. Pritpal singh Bindra has translated works of Bhai Nand Lal ji. Find that and compare.

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I am still waiting for my answer from Dal singh101 to show me where did Chaupa singh wrote that Guru sahib invoked

Kali/Durga? Is it really there or just an imagination.

You said you had a copy of Padam's book. Have you tried looking at the section of the Chaupa Singh rehat? I tried looking on the online copy on scribd but it seems to be an incomplete one and actually ends abruptly a page or two after the Chaupa Singh rehat commences.

If you have the complete book try scanning through it to see if it has this material, if you can't be bothered, please say so. I am going by the information in the link I posted earlier (regarding the inclusion of the devi episode) as well as what was said in McLeod's book. Granted he is someone who we need to be careful about. In the unlikely case that these people have got this wrong, and there is no kali episode in the rehat as claimed, then people need to highlight this fact far and wide. Try doing some research yourself if you have the book. I would but I haven't got the complete one, plus Panjabi being your first language means you'll do it a lot faster than I could. Please do. And if you find no such material after a careful look, let us know because the notion that the rehat contains such details is one that seems to have gotten widely accepted. Here is an example from this site:

Belief in the Goddess Devi

The Devi receives abundant attention in the Chaupa Singh Rahitruima. It comes in the lengthy narrative description of the successful fire ceremony, held on the hill called Naina Devi. [205-35]

The rehtanama extract posted here is not correct. There are no verse numbers. There is no orientation of verses,

Verses are wrong. There is only one version of tankahnama of bha nand lal. Everyone follows that.

You need to correct this. Pritpal singh Bindra has translated works of Bhai Nand Lal ji. Find that and compare.

I think you are getting confused again. MS770 appears to be an incomplete manuscript copied in a hurry. Large chunks are missing. If you get the McLeod book he explains all this in detail, as I said earlier. I'll keep my eye open for Pritpal Bindra's book.

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I have rehatnama of Bhai chaupa singh. This is what it says about Amrit ceremony of 1699 AD

Then Guru sahib, complete akal purakh roop,started panth specifying panth. Samvat 1754 Savan day seven rinsed keshas( hair).

Guru sahib said Chaupa singh, bring water in a bowl. I brought that.The Guru sahib ordered, stir it with khanda and Guru sahib

recited five swaiyes. Which ones? Daya Singh resident of laohore, khatri. Sahib singh dasan sain ke janam tha. Himmat singh

born of puri jagan nath. Dharam singh resident of hastanpur dhane ke janam tha. Fifth Mohkam singh Namdev ka janam tha.

These five started reciting swaiyes.Then sahib dewan Chand requested " Sache patshah ,it will be better If patase are to be put into."

Then Mata shakti, Mata Sahib ( refrence to Mata sahib devan) , put patase into bowl like a Goddess. Then sahib Perfect Guru

took five chulle of this amrit. Five fistfuls were sprinkled on eyes and in hair. Then Guru sahib recited swaiya of Chandi Charitra

Deh Siva bar mohe hai, Shubh karman te kabhoo na daron

Unquote

There is no mention of any kali or Durga being invoked by Guru sahib before initiating khalsa. Such statement looks

ridiculous especially when this rehatnama asks sikhs to do Pooja akal Ki.

I think you are getting confused again. MS770 appears to be an incomplete manuscript copied in a hurry. Large chunks are missing. If you get the McLeod book he explains all this in detail, as I said earlier. I'll keep my eye open for Pritpal Bindra's book.

Why he had to do this excercise when standard document was available. This is like creating confusion as the extract posted here is wrong.

Insitiute of sikh studies helped Bindra in translation of Bhai nand lal's works. Tankahnama forms part of that. That is same as given in

Padam's book.

You should replace this extract with that.

I will not believe in commentary of a christian missionary especially because of his record of passing abrasive comments on Guru Nanak sahib's travels

and discounting Bhai Gurdas Vaars.

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Save your time, I don't think the kali episode is in the PSP text. I just spoke to a friend and he told me that this is included some versions, possibly in the the Guru Nanak Dev University manuscript MS 1018. So the Kali episode is very possibly a latter interpolation.

What text are you using for the Chaupa Singh material you just posted? There seems to be all sorts of accusations thrown at the Chaupa rehat online?

Why he had to do this excercise when standard document was available. This is like creating confusion as the extract posted here is wrong.

Insitiute of sikh studies helped Bindra in translation of Bhai nand lal's works. Tankahnama forms part of that. That is same as given in

Padam's book.

You should replace this extract with that.

Unless I'm mistaken, he has used the format of Ganda Singh for his structure. Also, as previously stated MS 770 is an incomplete document and he has given it as (I presume) it is. If teh dating is correct, I think it is important to present it as it is.

I don't trust him either by the way. But I don't think he was brazen enough to completely fabricate the contents of a manuscript that could easily be checked.

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Save your time, I don't think the kali episode is in the PSP text. I just spoke to a friend and he told me that this is included some versions, possibly in the the Guru Nanak Dev University manuscript MS 1018. So the Kali episode is very possibly a latter interpolation.

What text are you using for the Chaupa Singh material you just posted? There seems to be all sorts of accusations thrown at the Chaupa rehat online?

Ask your friend to post the proof here. There is one rehatnama of Bhai chaupa singh and its copy was available with sikh reference library till 1984.

Mcleod is said to have copied it before 1984 and presented it to Guru Nanak university.

Rehtanama of Chaupa singh is very clear on whom sikhs are to venerate. It states

quote

Guru sahib stated that by his darshan , a sikh does not get liberation. Belief in my teachings will liberate you. Then he quoted verse from

Granth sahib

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨੋ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਵੇਖਦਾ ਜੇਤਾ ਜਗਤੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥

सतिगुर नो सभु को वेखदा जेता जगतु संसारु ॥

Saṯgur no sabẖ ko vekẖ▫ḏā jeṯā jagaṯ sansār.

All the living beings of the world behold the True Guru.

ਡਿਠੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਹੋਵਈ ਜਿਚਰੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਕਰੇ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ

डिठै मुकति न होवई जिचरु सबदि न करे वीचारु ॥

Diṯẖai mukaṯ na hova▫ī jicẖar sabaḏ na kare vīcẖār.

One is not liberated by merely seeing Him, unless one contemplates the Word of His Shabad.

Rehtanama Bhai Chaupa singh ji

unquote

Can I interject and ask who (and why) would add these references to Hindu goddesses in a way that portrays Guru Ji as a devotee of these deities? Is it mischief making or not?

What reference? There is none. may be some people are not able to comprehend.

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What reference? There is none. may be some people are not able to comprehend.

Such as those who say Kali was invoked before the creation of the Khalsa? If you're looking for a page number or an official source I haven't got one, but I've seen people mention it in this thread and others on this website.

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