Oldest Surviving Rehat Manuscript (1718/1719 Ad)

[Only five]

Be careful not to project your own beliefs (which you are entitled to have) on all scholars. I don't think they would all agree with you. Fact is no one knows what happened in those tents besides Guru ji and the piaray.

The fact that so many variations exist as to what did happen shows this. Everything, including what you have said is purely conjecture. We will never know. But to blindly follow traditional accounts with no factual evidence is tantamount to blind faith. Either side can argue their case here. Seeing as none of us can know the truth I suggest some sort of accommodation for each others views. Not believing that they were beheaded etc. doesn't in anyway disrespect our Guru, they never said they did this in the first place.

Gurbani tells us what took place. We have the accounts that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji asked for one head after another. Then accounts say that after the first head and the last three, the sword of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji was bloody, had blood on it. If it was to test the Punj Pyare(cutting goats heads) then why would Guru Sahib sword have blood on it. The Punj Pyare sword would have it. Not believing the Punj Pyare makes Guru Sahib a deciever because of the account that he, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji had blood on his sword and he was asking for heads. Who is ready to give their head to the Guru? This questions is very simple and straight forward.

Guru Hargobind himself hunted with dogs (Bhai Gurdas vars). So although I'm not convinced about it I don't totally discount that he may have asked for some goats to be decapitated. But again, we will never know for sure what really happened however people are entitled to their beliefs and faith and if you want to believe that he decapitated the piaray and brought them back to life then that is cool. One problem with that sort of thinking is that it goes against contemporary records of how Guru ji passed away - as the result of a stab wound from an Afghan assassin. This is clearly recorded in Sainpati within a few years of his passing. This contradicts the mythological sort of magical interpretation people have of Guru ji's life. Anyway we can argue over this till the cows come home, so LETS not! Lol

What we should do is see if anyone has contacts at the university where MS770 is and see if we can get a photocopy of this short rahit. You know anyone?

You have taken oranges and said they are apples. What Guru Sahib say, like i am asking for heads, comes true, because Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji is Sri Waheguru ji himself. Did Guru Sahib say the latter which you write? No. Satguru say something and that comes true. This comes to Sri Waheguru ji's Hukam and if you have some understanding of Sri Waheguru ji's Hukam, through simran, you will be able to understand how the stab and beheading of the Punj Pyare are apples and oranges.

[Wales85]

Guru Gobind Singh Ji is not God. God is God. Guru Gobind Singh Ji is Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Am I missing something here?

[Only five]

Guru Gobind Singh Ji is not God. God is God. Guru Gobind Singh Ji is Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Am I missing something here?

I don't want to sound egotistical, but you're missing the gyan, the understanding Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji is Sri Waheguru ji. Gurbani has made it very clear, and if you want to discuss this fact then start a new thread or search the threads here, because im 99.999% sure this has been discussed already.

[Wales85]

Ok. I will look that up on the forum.

Thanks

[dalsingh101]

Resurrection of a 3 year old thread.

What I find most shocking is that all this time has passed, we know where the manuscript is (Amritsar), we know its number, yet we still haven't got a hold of the original text.

No one with contacts in Amritsar?

*edit*

[sikha]

I think the original text can be found in pyara singh padams book "rehitname"

[dalsingh101]

Does anyone know which year the last edition of Padam's book was released?

[alias]

I think the original text can be found in pyara singh padams book "rehitname"

what is the title???????????????

how does it start???

which page number??

do u no??

the first was 1974

think the last is 1991

[dalsingh101]

what is the title???????????????

the first was 1974

think the last is 1991

How can it be in the Padam book then?

I don't think the above one was discovered until around 2001 (if I recall rightly).

You might have a much later version of the rehat (with additions) in the book perhaps?

[GPS]

Which rehatnama is being talked about?

If it is Chaupa singh rehatnama, its manuscript was present in Sikh reference library, Amritsar till Indian army took it away in 1984.

Mcleod had made a copy from there only and presented to Guru Nanak Dev university.