Innocents-shaheed Bhai Dilavar Singh Ji?

[Guest Akirtghan]

so we are quoting george bush now? he's probly the biggest terrorist this world has seen in a long time

[wjkk wjkf]

how come they had to do a suicidal bombing...couldnt they sniper him?...you know like JFK?

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

i think common sense is in order here.

beant ram, a guy responsible for unleashing the likes of KP Gill on Punjab's sikh population, and giving orders to eliminate sikh youth in fake police encounters, is not the guy you want to be guarding or hanging around at the time.

it's like visiting afghanistan with an american flag draped around your body. what do you expect, a red carpet?

or let's look at adolf hitler. he had a personal doctor, and body guards. you think when the allies were bombing the heck out of berlin, they cared if they accidentally killed his doctor?

it's the sikh way to be civil, but common sense is in order.

peace.

[N30S1NGH]

i think common sense is in order here.

beant ram, a guy responsible for unleashing the likes of KP Gill on Punjab's sikh population, and giving orders to eliminate sikh youth in fake police encounters, is not the guy you want to be guarding or hanging around at the time.

it's like visiting afghanistan with an american flag draped around your body. what do you expect, a red carpet?

or let's look at adolf hitler. he had a personal doctor, and body guards. you think when the allies were bombing the heck out of berlin, they cared if they accidentally killed his doctor?

it's the sikh way to be civil, but common sense is in order.

peace.

I am sure common sense will be people saviour when they have to answer in dargah for killing innocent by standers. oh it was common sense, i had to hit the target even in the cost of innocent by standards, i have no respect for these people who have killed innocent by standers in their hunger of revenge, these people are terrorist, they dont deserve an pavitar word - shaheed which is used to describe our 5th guru sahiban.

I cannot beleive how could people justify an innocent person being killed as common sense.

Those innocent 17-18 who were killed , if this was your mother, sister, father, daughter, son, your reaction be completely different.

this is too much bigotry, here we give shaheedi staaz to these ruthless killers who have killed an monster in the cost of innocent by standers

[Jai Tegang!]

It's warfare, and whatever tactics work best need to be used. End of the day Bhai Dilavar Singh is a Shaheed who had the honour of slaying a demon. Just like how a nindak takes along those who give an ear to him, to hell, or how an imposter takes his chelas to hell along with him, so do these rakhsash, like beanta. In difficult times of war things don't remain as black and white as peace time. If you think innocent bystanders won't be killed in our current system of warfare, then you need to do some catching up. Armies don't pick vast open plains away from civilian populations and engage in a dawn-to-dusk battle. Warfare goes to towns and cities; fighting contiues night and day. This is the reality of warfare. Bombs aren't allergic to civilians, bullets don't curve infront of bystanders. It's not how yudh should be, but that's besides the point. This is what war is now.

[N30S1NGH]

One question for you veer: this warfare and tactics you are talking about, does that anywhere has imprints of sri guru maharaj teachings or dharam yudh maryada written by maharaj itself?

Here are some rules to remember and regulated by guroo gobind singh maharaj during dharam yudh-

Literally, it means waging a war of righteousness or securing freedom and justice. Guru Hargobind Ji raised an army to fight against Mughal and Hindu oppression and injustice. Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji amplified the Sikh concept of Dharam Yudh as under:

1. War to be waged should be without aggression or feeling of emnity and revenge.

2. Before war is begun, all peaceful means of dialiogue, arbitration and negotiation should have been tried but without any success.

3. The soldiers should be volunteers devoted to the cause.

4. The defeated enemy should be treated with consideration and compassion. No women or children be captured or maltreated.

5. That minimum force be used for subduing the enemy and as a last resort.

6. No territory is to be annexed, no looting or wilful bloodshed is permitted. The army for Dharam-Yudh must observe these conditions, for they have to set an example as Saint-Soldiers.

This was written by Guru Ji himself for all Singhs to emulate. I personally believe that these rules also serve as an excellent guide for life. Think about them along these:

1. Have no hatred towards anyone

2. Try to be reasonable and understanding, but let anyone walk over you!

3. Be devoted to your Guru and always aim to serve your Guru

4. Recognise everything you see around you as that of Vahiguru, love everything. Even people who maltreat you should be treated with Love, to show that whatever they do or say, the only thing that really matters in this world is Vahiguru.

5. Never try to be over-zealous and make sure that what you are doing is for the benefit of YOU and your Guru and that you DO NOT hurt the people who surround you when you are trying to achieve your goals.

6. Do not hurt anyone (physically or mentally) and do not take or receive anything that does not belong to you.

Reference: Some of these teachings come from Guru Gobind SIngh's Charitropakhyan.!

[dalsingh101]

how come they had to do a suicidal bombing...couldnt they sniper him?...you know like JFK?

Our people are too unsophisticated for that.

[Sarbloh]

I have been thinking about this from my last post.

Although the distinction between the innocent and the less innocent is a difficult one to make, most people would say that there is something especially wrong with the deliberate targeting of civilians in war. Modern weapons of mass destruction such as nuclear bombs and chemical and biological weapons, whose use would kill thousands, and maybe millions, of ordinary people, seem to be impossible to justify.

But if all wars involve killing the innocent, then we are back to the impossibility of justifying war at all? We have to accept that however terrible battle may be, it's at least possible that sometimes a refusal to go to battle may be even worse. For example looking at the Second World War, it led to huge destruction and millions of deaths, but if Nazism had not been resisted there might have been an even worse outcome.

All too often combat achieves nothing except terrible suffering, leaving a legacy of bitterness which sows the seeds of future wars. Most people are likely to say that, because we should value every human life as something unique and precious, we should look sceptically at the reasons groups give for inflicting death and destruction in war. But most people would also say that we have to look hard at each individual case, for just occasionally war might be the lesser evil!

It's a difficult scenario to comprehend and I believe only through Gurmat Gyan can we really begin to possibly understand this. Perhaps that's why Maharaj made his Khalsa Sant-Siphais (Saint Soldiers).

[Guest Narinder Singh]

how come they had to do a suicidal bombing...couldnt they sniper him?...you know like JFK?

Our people are too unsophisticated for that.

Then you dont really know our people.

[gupt_kaur]

isnt death one thing in life u have no control over? jamdoot decided to come and grab all those 17- 19 people as it was destiny and they were bound to die as they had no control over it, that being by the explosion cuased by shaheed bhai dilawar singh or by natural cause they had to die at that time as its in there karam, and the killling on beant singh was done for justice not revenge or hatte simply justice afteralll thats what the khalsa is for not to fulfill hatred or anger but simply to attain justice.