Kaurs In Punj Piarey

[Balait_da_Sher]

So if you can't understand Gurmat then how do you know women are allowed or not allowed in the Punj Pyare. Just below you base your conclusion on knowing Gurmat. You can't say with one tongue we don't know Gurmat and then with the same tongue say I do know Gurmat because it suits your mindset.

exactlyyyyyyyyy what i am saying. We cannot understand Gurmat fully so how can you say that sikh women cannot be part of panj? Where as we can assume guru ji would have no problem allowing women to be in panj if they had come forward then or if they came forward now.

Is anyone here prepared to say that Guru ji did not give women same religious rights as men?

Is anyone here prepared to say that Guru Sahib would go against Gurmat to satisfiy somes minds. And the above answers the so called religous rights.

Well i am prepared to say it because Gurmat is Guru's mat and who else would have gone for or against it but the Guru. So yes, Guru ji gave equal religious rights to men and women.

Guru Sahib wouldn't have gone against his mat!!! Tell me one time Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji has gone against his mat. Look all you like, you won't find it and it shows in the above you are claiming to know Gurmat now, but when it suits you then you say I don't know. And nice on playing Guru Sahib here. Can I add you did a terrible job and called Guru Sahib an hypocrite.

you certainly may not ever add that i called guru ji a hypocrite. I said, it is guru's mat so they are the only one who can either be, for it or against it. Since Guru ji never explicitly stated that women cannot be in panj, we have to look at sikh principals of love and comppasion and equality to try to understand if Guru ji would have allowed women to be panj.

I have already answered this so again. I am going to copy and paste. This is at the heart of the debate and you are trying everything to ignore it. Then this should be addressed by the Panth, but not used against the Khalsa to get your thinking approved. If this is a wrong doing then as an admin you have more authority than me and use this authority to speak with the appropriate authority. I addressed all your comments, but your unable to address the point of Singh given to man and Kaur given to woman. Why is that? If your not able to address this one simple point then maybe someone else can.

First of all, I am taking part in this discussion like i have done thousands of time before on the forum as a member and not as an admin. As far as Singh vs Kaur is concerned i have already said that this is not about gender equality but religious equality.

[Only five]

So if you can't understand Gurmat then how do you know women are allowed or not allowed in the Punj Pyare. Just below you base your conclusion on knowing Gurmat. You can't say with one tongue we don't know Gurmat and then with the same tongue say I do know Gurmat because it suits your mindset.

exactlyyyyyyyyy what i am saying. We cannot understand Gurmat fully so how can you say that sikh women cannot be part of panj? Where as we can assume guru ji would have no problem allowing women to be in panj if they had come forward then or if they came forward now.

Is anyone here prepared to say that Guru ji did not give women same religious rights as men?

Is anyone here prepared to say that Guru Sahib would go against Gurmat to satisfiy somes minds. And the above answers the so called religous rights.

Well i am prepared to say it because Gurmat is Guru's mat and who else would have gone for or against it but the Guru. So yes, Guru ji gave equal religious rights to men and women.

Guru Sahib wouldn't have gone against his mat!!! Tell me one time Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji has gone against his mat. Look all you like, you won't find it and it shows in the above you are claiming to know Gurmat now, but when it suits you then you say I don't know. And nice on playing Guru Sahib here. Can I add you did a terrible job and called Guru Sahib an hypocrite.

you certainly may not ever add that i called guru ji a hypocrite. I said, it is guru's mat so they are the only one who can either be, for it or against it. Since Guru ji never explicitly stated that women cannot be in panj, we have to look at sikh principals of love and comppasion and equality to try to understand if Guru ji would have allowed women to be panj.

I have already answered this so again. I am going to copy and paste. This is at the heart of the debate and you are trying everything to ignore it. Then this should be addressed by the Panth, but not used against the Khalsa to get your thinking approved. If this is a wrong doing then as an admin you have more authority than me and use this authority to speak with the appropriate authority. I addressed all your comments, but your unable to address the point of Singh given to man and Kaur given to woman. Why is that? If your not able to address this one simple point then maybe someone else can.

First of all, I am taking part in this discussion like i have done thousands of time before on the forum as a member and not as an admin. As far as Singh vs Kaur is concerned i have already said that this is not about gender equality but religious equality.

No offense intended, but I should be the admin here. Your statements are so funny, seriously man i tried being serious for awhile, but now all I can do so laugh.

So before I get myself kicked off this forum of making fun of an admin and proving my point at the same time i will give you a day to think your comments through.

Seriously, brother think about what you stated to me and think deep. This equality stuf is not working in your way. Singh and Kaur are very much about religious equality. Same goes for Anand Karaj(Homosexuality, Lar). If you are really wanting to go for religious eqaulity then realize your statement and what comes with it.

Gurmat is understood. So think Long and hard and maybe I won't have to write another post here, you can figure the mistakes out yourself and clarify them for everyone.

Thanks for the laughs

And Chardikala

[TuhiNirankar]

Please check out Ang 86 of this pothi " Question and Answer" Written by Baba Jaswant Singh (Student of Sant Gurbachan Singh Khalsa, DDT)

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/BhagatJi/Pothi%20Files/Question%20Answer%20Pothi.pdf

if the link doesnt work go to gursevak.com and go to the pothya then Question and answer pothi, open scribd or pdf and go to ang 86 which says in gurmukhii:

Can kaurs be in the Punj piyarey?\

very beautifuly written

please read,

the dust of ur poojneek feet,dasi

[Balait_da_Sher]

No offense taken, at least i provided you with a good laugh . Sure lets make you an admin and why do you keep thinking you are going to get kicked off the forum when i have said i am taking part in this discussion to present my view as a member of the forum. I never claim to know it all, in fact i know the least amount about sikhi but i do know sikhi is very logical and most of the arguments in this topics are not logical.

What is so wrong about women in panj pyare? Thats the main question not can women be in panj piyares.

Religious equality = having same access to the guru

= having same rights of naap japna, vand chakhna and kirat karna

Muslim women cant goto mosque at the same time men, sikhi gives that right to sikh women.

Everyone regardless of gender in sikhi can practice naam japna, vand chakna and kirat karna

Sikhs both men and women can be amritdhari.

All aspects of sikhi can be practised by both men and women.

So how is that not religious equality? You say that religious equality should then apply to gay men, well if they are gay then they are not following the religion because i am yet to see a religion that says homosexuality is ok. Why are we distorting the discussion by bringing this kind of things when the discussion is about gursikh women who have the same qualities as a gursikh man.

I am not talking about women walking infront of man during lavan (i wouldnt have a problem with that either *shock*), i am talking about women being allowed to take part in fundamental sikh practices.

[Only five]

Please check out Ang 86 of this pothi " Question and Answer" Written by Baba Jaswant Singh (Student of Sant Gurbachan Singh Khalsa, DDT)

http://www.gurmatvee...wer%20Pothi.pdf

if the link doesnt work go to gursevak.com and go to the pothya then Question and answer pothi, open scribd or pdf and go to ang 86 which says in gurmukhii:

Can kaurs be in the Punj piyarey?\

very beautifuly written

please read,

the dust of ur poojneek feet,dasi

Thank you Bhenji. Balait da Sher please listen to the pothi.

Here is a direct link to listen to it, http://www.gursevak.com/questionanswer.html

Singh like I said before please think it through. Don't use your intellect, but your soul and Guru Sahib as your guide.

I was in the same posiiton thinking women are allowed, maybe someone can dig up the post here by me. I was putting the same arguement forward, but became aware what was being said and how twisted and backwards it was.

Please for the sake of others, if you don't understand let Gurmat go unaltered. I read your recent post and I see more ignorance. Not saying I know all, but have spent much time looking into it. Saying this with most sincerity.

Will respond to your post later when I get time

Chadikala

[EKONAM]

usually when somebody has no answers by the way of the guru bani NOT what people have been thought to have been believed they will cut you off like the last person.....did to me instead of understanding,

and NO i do not belong to any group just a sikh that tries to go with the gurbani, your beleaves are what sikh have been doing , but mine are from the gurbani, you give no quotes from the gurbani , only your mun-mat mind , you go on history when the only true history is the gurbanis history....any way it is said "gur ki karni ka-haa dhao gur keha sa kar kamavo" so that is why it is not improtant of what gurus DID but only DO what they have said in the gurbani..

bhol chok maff

[Harmeet_Singh]

pWc isMG AMimRq jo dyvYN qW ko isr Dr Ck pun lyvY ] pun iml pWco rihq jo BwKY qW ko mn myN idRV kr rwKY ]

paa(n)ch si(n)gh a(n)mrith jo dhaevai(n) thaa(n) ko sir dhhar shhak pun laevai ||apun mil paa(n)cho rehith

jo bhaakhai thaa(n) ko man mae(n) dhrirr kar raakhai ||

Offer you head and take the Amrit prepared by five Singhs. The code of conduct (Rehat), which they bless you with, should be enshrined in one's heart.

Krith Bilaas Paathshahee Dasvee

Its not an issue of equlity, Akaal Purakh hasnt made us equal, men and women are physically,emotionaly, physologicaly different. Man cant give birth, so how is he equal to a women. Theres a difference between eqauailty and respect.

[Mista Singh]

Why shouldnt they be allowed?

The Panj Pyare should resemble the original Panj Pyare as much as possible, not just looks wise but Chardi Kalaaness aswell BUT if there isnt a Singh that can fit the bill but there is a Bibi that can, she should definately be a part of the Panj Pyare.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[sherlsurj]

for all those who say the cnt u dnt believe in equality and what guru nanak dev ji taught us aboiut respectung women. can someone plz tell me where it says panj pyaareh have to resemble teh original ones???whast a load of crap. that means if ur a small guy u cnat do it becasue the origianl ones were all quite big. women have as much right to represent us. panj pyaareh can be anyone otherwise it wud be named the panj singhs. this reli gets to me and im a guy too. its a joke hw backward most of u lopt r. u may be amrithari but sum of u guys r so far in2 ur own egos

[Only five]

Why shouldnt they be allowed?

The Panj Pyare should resemble the original Panj Pyare as much as possible, not just looks wise but Chardi Kalaaness aswell BUT if there isnt a Singh that can fit the bill but there is a Bibi that can, she should definately be a part of the Panj Pyare.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

This has been answered by others on this topic. There are ways where five Singh can be arranged. You don't have to worry about that nor does anyone else. AK-47 answered this question of yours best. Take a read.