Kirpan

[All-Info]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Saad Sangat ji, a benti, please can those with legal documents please post a message in response as i require this to make a formal complaint against the police force.

Last night a police officer spotted the end of my kirpan and requested me to remove it. I refused and he stated its classed as bladed instrument n therefore i have the option to remove it myself or be arrested. I made him radio it in to his sergant infront of me which he did. His superior stated unless a Sikh is wearing "religious clothing" (a bana or something similar rather then trackies and a tshirt) it is an illegal offence.

Due to certain circumstances and going away in a week to the states, i did my ardaas and removed my sri sahib knowing i still hand one in my kesh.

What i request from the sangat, seeing as many a time i have past police and spoken to police wearing english clothing, a document which says contarty to what he has stated. I did some googling last night but didnt find anything, i need documents which will assist. Im going to call a solicitor in the first thing monday to converse with them my rights but if the sangat can assist in providing legal documents then please do.

Its maharajs hukham and the end of the day if we believe it all happens in his will, but just thought i would share the experience and also seek advice at the same time.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

[Singhstah]

yeah that was really wrong what they did, i mean not everyone wears bana all the time!

neway, heres the laws,

CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT 1988

PART XI

SECTION 139 SUBSECTION 5b.

139.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

© as part of any national costume.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7) In this section "public place" includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

(8) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

yeah that was really wrong what they did, i mean not everyone wears bana all the time!

neway, heres the laws,

139.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

© as part of any national costume.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7) In this section "public place" includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

(8) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

This is outrageous and totally unacceptable.

Have passed on the link to this item to several contacts that have legal background and deal with police. Our objective should be to:

i) get an immediate written apology from the most senior police officer in the region;

iii) publicise this apology in the Sikh/Panjabi media; and

iii) try and make sure through ACPO that this does not happen again.

[malkeet]

when a police officer does anything, you can ask for a receipt (i think) where they have to give you written details of why they are arresting you/making you do something. It will have there details on too, so then you can file a complaint.

fateh

[kullykhalsa]

fateh

thanks for the posts although ive never been stopped i am sumtimes worried! knowing the relevant sections and whatnot will problem come in useful later!

bhul chuk maf :wub:

[Tarrandeep Kaur]

really? i thought u would get more hassle for wearing baana and a kirpan, rather than english clothes and a kirpan

but yeh i havent had any hassle from any police, for some reason police officers are really nice to me lol, whenever i see them, they're really polite lol :wub: and my kirpan is visible.

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

yeah that was really wrong what they did, i mean not everyone wears bana all the time!

neway, heres the laws,

139.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

© as part of any national costume.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7) In this section "public place" includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

(8) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

This is outrageous and totally unacceptable.

Have passed on the link to this item to several contacts that have legal background and deal with police. Our objective should be to:

i) get an immediate written apology from the most senior police officer in the region;

iii) publicise this apology in the Sikh/Panjabi media; and

iii) try and make sure through ACPO that this does not happen again.

ACPO contact and a Sikh who has dealing with many police forces has come back with the following. Please ring Harmander Singh

Need additional details,

Time, place (which police service) etc.

Harmander Singh

07958946868

[smartsingh24]

You should contact United Sikhs.

http://www.unitedsikhs.org/

[All-Info]

yeah that was really wrong what they did, i mean not everyone wears bana all the time!

neway, heres the laws,

139.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

© as part of any national costume.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7) In this section "public place" includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

(8) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

This is outrageous and totally unacceptable.

Have passed on the link to this item to several contacts that have legal background and deal with police. Our objective should be to:

i) get an immediate written apology from the most senior police officer in the region;

iii) publicise this apology in the Sikh/Panjabi media; and

iii) try and make sure through ACPO that this does not happen again.

ACPO contact and a Sikh who has dealing with many police forces has come back with the following. Please ring Harmander Singh

Need additional details,

Time, place (which police service) etc.

Harmander Singh

07958946868

i will give him a call in the morning! thanks sangat ji

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

yeah that was really wrong what they did, i mean not everyone wears bana all the time!

neway, heres the laws,

139.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

© as part of any national costume.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7) In this section "public place" includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

(8) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

This is outrageous and totally unacceptable.

Have passed on the link to this item to several contacts that have legal background and deal with police. Our objective should be to:

i) get an immediate written apology from the most senior police officer in the region;

iii) publicise this apology in the Sikh/Panjabi media; and

iii) try and make sure through ACPO that this does not happen again.

ACPO contact and a Sikh who has dealing with many police forces has come back with the following. Please ring Harmander Singh

Need additional details,

Time, place (which police service) etc.

Harmander Singh

07958946868

i will give him a call in the morning! thanks sangat ji

Harmander Singh can liaise with United Sikhs. As it should be possible to resolve without legal action.