That Turd Umar Is Back Trying To Bash Sikhism

[sikh supreme]

http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?p=398972

Sikhs2islam.com and sikhs2islam.co.uk same guy registering both domains. He has a personal vendetta against Sikhs. The isp hosting his domain names is streamline.net

We need to take action against the pro-islam and anti-sikh propaganda he is spreading.

[PAL 07]

gurfateh,

thanks very much ''sikhsupreme'' for such valuable information you have provided, i feel that it is a terrible shame that on this muslim forum inaccurate information has been posted about sikhism and yet nobody has even replied to this post by you making us aware of this issue. isn't it suprising that every sikhsangat member is busy watching media on the khalsa camp 07 and yet nobody has bothered to even reply to this post by you. This is terrible shame on sikhs that on that muslim forum they post things like ''the gurus are humans etc" and yet nobody is bothered about this, in the ssmultimedia section you'll find over 40 posts to do with the khalsa camp 07 but nothing to do with this which is more serious........well ive registered with that muslim forum and will respond while you guys are to busy in your own fantasy world

[Bijla Singh]

This has been posted numerous times before and Umar was defeated in the debate. His posts and articles have been refuted. http://searchsikhism.com/islam.html

So don't assume no one cares.

[sikh supreme]

Bijla Singh you've done a great job countering umer's arguments and other questions by fundamentalist muslims.

I think we need a counter website www.muslims2sikhism.com or something similar where all the resources are made available for for muslims who wish to break free from islam.

projectnaad.com has good pdf documents.

More need to be created to totally destory the foundations of islam. Targetting how the quran was first complied, why chapters are missing, how there were many qurans before athaman destoryed the rest and only left one copy to be reprinted throught arabia and islamic ruled lands.

These also islamic scriptures that are perverted which learned muslims try to hide away and ignorant muslims claim they dont exist. The link below shows islamic scriptures that state ayesha (last wife of muhammad) breast fed young adult males who werent her own.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/M...g_of_adults.htm

[PAL 07]

sikhsupreme you wrote and i quote ''more needs to be done to destroy the foundations of islam"

this is a very very bad thing to say and please note that muslims do veiw this forum. I wish to ask you is this why GuruSahib created the khalsa panth so that we can destroy islam as you have just posted.

Gurusahib's hukam is - apna karo pritpala ''make your life better, pure and clean" not to go about bashing the Holy Quran. The actions of a sikh should be those that the GuruSahib is happy with and allows to do ...... GuruSahib says bedkateb kaho mat chuteh chuta so jo na vechare ''do not call the holy scriptures of other religions false, false is he who does not read and act upon them"

I feel you should apologise on this thread to all our muslim brothers, and please remember that not all muslims are bad as you might think infact they are quite chardikalla aswell

[sikh supreme]

sikhsupreme you wrote and i quote ''more needs to be done to destroy the foundations of islam"

this is a very very bad thing to say and please note that muslims do veiw this forum. I wish to ask you is this why GuruSahib created the khalsa panth so that we can destroy islam as you have just posted.

Gurusahib's hukam is - apna karo pritpala ''make your life better, pure and clean" not to go about bashing the Holy Quran. The actions of a sikh should be those that the GuruSahib is happy with and allows to do ...... GuruSahib says bedkateb kaho mat chuteh chuta so jo na vechare ''do not call the holy scriptures of other religions false, false is he who does not read and act upon them"

I feel you should apologise on this thread to all our muslim brothers, and please remember that not all muslims are bad as you might think infact they are quite chardikalla aswell

Brother when I talk of destorying the foundations of Islam. I talk of humbling the fundamentalists who want to go around attacking non-muslim faiths gloating "islam is the truth". Let them taste the same medicine. Muslim fundamentalists only learn when they are confronted head on, when you shy away they only grow in their dillusions that "islam is the truth" because it is not being challenged. Let it be known that their faith is being challenged even by ex-muslims themselves.

http://www.apostatesofislam.com

http://www.exmuslims.com

http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/ (

)

http://www.islam-watch.com

Guru sahib's tried to reason with the muslim fanatics by explaining to them the best religion is not hinduism or islam but the person who has the best conduct, in the eyes of God he will not judge you on basis of religion but on basis of your deeds. The muslim fanatic thinks just by being a muslim he is superior and the kafir (non-muslims) is inferior because allah says so in the quran. Let this quran be exposed, let the hadiths be exposed so that these people wake up from living in the 7th century.

[Mehtab Singh]

The Muslims who view this forum are most welcome and requested to read and contemplate the following shabads...

This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Maajh on Pannaa 140

sloku mÚ 1 ]

salok ma 1 ||

Salok, First Mehla:

imhr msIiq isdku muslw hku hlwlu kurwxu ]

mihar maseeth sidhak musalaa hak halaal kuraan ||

Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran.

srm suMniq sIlu rojw hohu muslmwxu ]

saram su(n)nath seel rojaa hohu musalamaan ||

Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.

krxI kwbw scu pIru klmw krm invwj ]

karanee kaabaa sach peer kalamaa karam nivaaj ||

Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant.

qsbI sw iqsu BwvsI nwnk rKY lwj ]1]

thasabee saa this bhaavasee naanak rakhai laaj ||1||

Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor. ||1||

muslmwxu khwvxu musklu jw hoie qw muslmwxu khwvY ]

musalamaan kehaavan musakal jaa hoe thaa musalamaan kehaavai ||

It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.

Avil Aauil dInu kir imTw mskl mwnw mwlu muswvY ]

aval aoul dheen kar mit(h)aa masakal maanaa maal musaavai ||

First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.

hoie musilmu dIn muhwxY mrx jIvx kw Brmu cukwvY ]

hoe musalim dheen muhaanai maran jeevan kaa bharam chukaavai ||

Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.

rb kI rjwie mMny isr aupir krqw mMny Awpu gvwvY ]

rab kee rajaae ma(n)nae sir oupar karathaa ma(n)nae aap gavaavai ||

As he submits to God's Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.

qau nwnk srb jIAw imhrMmiq hoie q muslmwxu khwvY ]1]

tho naanak sarab jeeaa mihara(n)math hoe th musalamaan kehaavai ||1||

And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim. ||1||

Now those fellow Muslim brothers and sisters can compare and see what the Quran says about non-Muslims.

Another one...

This Shabad is by Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Bhairao on Pannaa 1159

so mulW jo mn isau lrY ]

so mulaa(n) jo man sio larai ||

He alone is a Mullah, who struggles with his mind,

gur aupdyis kwl isau jurY ]

gur oupadhaes kaal sio jurai ||

and through the Guru's Teachings, fights with death.

kwl purK kw mrdY mwnu ]

kaal purakh kaa maradhai maan ||

He crushes the pride of the Messenger of Death.

iqsu mulw kau sdw slwmu ]1]

this mulaa ko sadhaa salaam ||1||

Unto that Mullah, I ever offer greetings of respect. ||1||

hY hjUir kq dUir bqwvhu ]

hai hajoor kath dhoor bathaavahu ||

God is present, right here at hand; why do you say that He is far away?

duMdr bwDhu suMdr pwvhu ]1] rhwau ]

dhu(n)dhar baadhhahu su(n)dhar paavahu ||1|| rehaao ||

Tie up your disturbing passions, and find the Beauteous Lord. ||1||Pause||

kwjI so ju kwieAw bIcwrY ]

kaajee so j kaaeiaa beechaarai ||

He alone is a Qazi, who contemplates the human body,

kwieAw kI Agin bRhmu prjwrY ]

kaaeiaa kee agan breham parajaarai ||

and through the fire of the body, is illumined by God.

supnY ibMdu n dyeI Jrnw ]

supanai bi(n)dh n dhaeee jharanaa ||

He does not lose his semen, even in his dreams;

iqsu kwjI kau jrw n mrnw ]2]

this kaajee ko jaraa n maranaa ||2||

for such a Qazi, there is no old age or death. ||2||

so surqwnu ju duie sr qwnY ]

so surathaan j dhue sar thaanai ||

He alone is a sultan and a king, who shoots the two arrows,

bwhir jwqw BIqir AwnY ]

baahar jaathaa bheethar aanai ||

gathers in his outgoing mind,

ggn mMfl mih lskru krY ]

gagan ma(n)ddal mehi lasakar karai ||

and assembles his army in the realm of the mind's sky, the Tenth Gate.

so surqwnu CqRü isir DrY ]3]

so surathaan shhathra sir dhharai ||3||

The canopy of royalty waves over such a sultan. ||3||

jogI gorKu gorKu krY ]

jogee gorakh gorakh karai ||

The Yogi cries out, ""Gorakh, Gorakh"".

ihMdU rwm nwmu aucrY ]

hi(n)dhoo raam naam oucharai ||

The Hindu utters the Name of Raam.

muslmwn kw eyku Kudwie ]

musalamaan kaa eaek khudhaae ||

The Muslim has only One God.

kbIr kw suAwmI rihAw smwie ]4]3]11]

kabeer kaa suaamee rehiaa samaae ||4||3||11||

The Lord and Master of Kabeer is all-pervading. ||4||3||11||

Hope they realize the truth!

[proactive]

PAL 07

I think you are contradicting yourself, on the one hand you want Sikhs to counter what is written by these Muslim fanatics but on the other you still want us to consider Muslims as chardi kala :D

You're misquoted a Shabad by Bhagat Kabirji without understanding the meaning of that Shabad and the context of the Shabad. That Shabad has been explained in many posts both here and on Tapoban. Using the prefix 'holy' in front of the Koran is also something which will encourage Muslims and just contribute to their ego. You state that you've registered on that Muslim forum in order to counter them but if your going to start writing things like 'holy' Koran and misquote Shabads in order to show that Gurbani somehow approves of Islam then I suggest you don't bother because your type of countering is just counter productive and likely to enbolden Muslims in their activities.

Read the Shabads quoted by Mehtab Singh where Guruji tells us what a true Muslim is and compare this with what the Koran says a true Muslim is. There is a world of difference between both of these definitions. Also you might want to read the 'Awwal Allah Noor Uppaiya' Shabad by Bhagat Kabirji which is a favourite for some ignorant Sikhs to quote in order to try and portray that Islam is a valid religion. Look at the attributes of Allah in the Koran and the attributes that Bhagat Kabirji ascribes to Allah. Again a world of difference.

In countering Muslims you also have to counter Islam, there's no difference between the two. If a Muslim tries to prove that Guru Nanak was not a good husband and abandoned his wife when he went on his Udasis then you counter that with the facts of the Gurus Udasis as well as also compare this with the way Mohammed treated his wifes and his home life which would make a great soap opera if it were ever filmed!

[PAL 07]

''proactive'' thankyou for your response bit i do not agree with anything you are saying about me

1) i am not contradicting myself......all that i suggested is that the purpose of the khalsa panth is not to make arguements as to why the Holy Quran is false,thats not what sikhs should be doing.

2) not all muslims are fundamentalist but many are very pious and great people who do repeat the name of God and think of sarbath da bhalla.......chardikalah means the same thing as this ie, someone who repeats the name of God and thinks of sarbath da bhalla.

3)please could you explain to me why this transliteration is wrong - bed kateb kaho mat chuteh chuta so jo na vechare ''do not call the holy scriptures of other religions false, false is he who does not read and act upon them"

4)Whats wrong with the prefix holy ?? For sikhs all religious scriptures should be termed with respect.

the jist of my arguement is that we should not argue with muslims or try to proove to them that certain things in there religion are wrong, the will only create more agitation........imagine if somebody says to you that sikhi is all false, would you like it.

What we should do is respond to muslim questions with proof from Gurbani and sikh history thereby answering their question which il make them shut up

[Bijla Singh]

Islam is false and is rejected in Gurbani. vedas and hindu books are also false.

You are using translation which is false. Much of the English translation in my opinion is false and very wrong. First thing we must keep in mind is that Gurbani is the absolute truth and it does not contradict itself. In other words, Gurbani does not reject Vedas at one point and then accept their authority at another. This particular panktee you have used is as follows:

ਬੇਦਕਤੇਬਕਹਹੁਮਤਝੂਠੇਝੂਠਾਜੋਨਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥

ਬੇਦਕਤੇਬ – Vedas and Quran

ਕਹਹੁ -I (Kabeer) say

ਮਤ - Religions

ਝੂਠੇ – false

Now the meanings are clear. Kabeer Ji says that “I openly say that religions (ways) preached by Vedas and Quran are false and false are those who do not understand this fact.” The word “Mat” does not mean “Do not” but it means religions or different way to reach God. Guru Gobind Singh Ji Himself rejected the authority of these books by saying:

ਰਾਮਰਹੀਮਪੁਰਾਨਕੁਰਾਨਅਨੇਕਕਹੈਂਮਤਏਕਨਮਾਨਯੋ ॥

Notice how the word “Mat” is used in this context. Guru Gobind Singh Ji is clearly rejecting the religion preached by Puranas, Quran and other prophets.

If we assume that the translation you have provided is correct then we face a big dilemma because the following quotes reject vedas. Gurbani cannot praise vedas and reject them at the same time. Here are some quotes from Gurbani:

ਬੇਦਕਤੇਬਇਫਤਰਾਭਾਈਦਿਲਕਾਫਿਕਰੁਨਜਾਇ ॥ ਅੰਗ 727

ਪੰਡਿਤਮੈਲੁਨਚੁਕਈਜੇਵੇਦਪੜੈਜੁਗਚਾਰਿ ॥ ਅੰਗ 647

ਬੇਦਕਤੇਬਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿਸਭਿਸਾਸਤਇਨ੍‍ਪੜਿਆਮੁਕਤਿਨਹੋਈ ॥ ਅੰਗ 747

There are numerous more quotes. Since Gurbani does not contradict itself, the panktee you used has been translated wrong and therefore it must align with the quotes provided above. For more information on this topic you can go to http://searchsikhism.com/hind8.html