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Bhai Mani Singh


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sorry i didnt make this clear at all.

i *think* it was in 1721, but dont quote me.

bhai mani singh had the idea, that perhaps he should rearrange all the gurbani in the guru granth sahib. usually it is arranged by raag. he thought he should rearrange the entire guru granth sahib (this is all happening after guru gobind singhs passing) by AUTHOR - ie first all guru nanaks bani, ending with guru tegh bahadurs, then bhagats, bhatts, etc.

as u can imagine, the generally sikh sangat were incredibly p**sed off with this idea so it didnt go ahead. people said he should be cut into pieces for attempting to mutilate gurbani.

nevertheless bhai mani singh still gave the biggest sacrifice and redeemed himself with shaheedi.

i can understand that even great gursikhs make *little* mistakes in their lives and make up for it (eg banda singh bahadur) but WHY ON EARTH would bhai mani singh want to mess about with gurbani?

after all he was the scibe of guru gobind singh, so he would be aware of the importance of gurbani and the sggs. why would he have such a crazy idea being such a great singh?

hopefully my question is clearer now - what possessed bhai mani singh to think about messing up the guru granth sahib?

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sorry i didnt make this clear at all.

i *think* it was in 1721, but dont quote me.

bhai mani singh had the idea, that perhaps he should rearrange all the gurbani in the guru granth sahib. usually it is arranged by raag. he thought he should rearrange the entire guru granth sahib (this is all happening after guru gobind singhs passing) by AUTHOR - ie first all guru nanaks bani, ending with guru tegh bahadurs, then bhagats, bhatts, etc.

as u can imagine, the generally sikh sangat were incredibly p**sed off with this idea so it didnt go ahead. people said he should be cut into pieces for attempting to mutilate gurbani.

nevertheless bhai mani singh still gave the biggest sacrifice and redeemed himself with shaheedi.

i can understand that even great gursikhs make *little* mistakes in their lives and make up for it (eg banda singh bahadur) but WHY ON EARTH would bhai mani singh want to mess about with gurbani?

after all he was the scibe of guru gobind singh, so he would be aware of the importance of gurbani and the sggs. why would he have such a crazy idea being such a great singh?

hopefully my question is clearer now - what possessed bhai mani singh to think about messing up the guru granth sahib?

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I think he aslo made gutkas, and Guru Gob

ind Singh Ji said u have cut up gurbani so u will be cut up...heard it from someone

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vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

About the gutkas question - I've heard that Guru Gobind Singh jee sometimes kept a scroll with gurbani written on it in his kamarkassa. Also many of the Shaheeds had the mool manthar or other bani on their shields and shasters. Therefore I strongly doubt that making gutkas is seen as splitting gurbani. Bhai Mani Singh jee got gutkas printed including the panj granthee but I don't see anything wrong in this.

But about the question of "messing with gurbani" (as KhalsaSoulja veerjee put it) - I don't have the knowledge or wisdom to try to answer your question.

I can only give my humble opinion.

And this is ONLY for those people who have read the post above and now they might look down on Bhai Mani Singh.

Mani means jewel.

The word Sukhmani means the jewel of happiness. This is why Sukhmani Sahib paat is so important. Because when we read it everything just comes together and works in our life.

The mahaan shaheed, Gursikh pyare, Bhai Sahib Bhai Mani Singh jee was a blessed sevadar of Guru Gobind Singh Jee.

What kind of amazing honour is it that you will be given the seva to, with your own hands, write the suroop of the Guru Granth Sahib - the same suroop that will be given gurgadhee - the same suroop that is now at Sachkhand Sri Harimandir Sahib.

Guru Gobind SIngh jee would not bow to and give gurgadee to that suroop if he did not know for 100% sure that every single akhar in that suroop was written properly - if every single part of

the suroop was real Gurbani and he knew that Bhai Mani Singh jee wrote it all with his pyaar and shardaa.

Lets look back to the first time this happened - it was Guru Arjan Dev Jee that arranged the first compilation of the Aad Granth Sahib. Who received the honour to scribe the first suroop of the Aad Granth Sahib Jee ? It was Bhai Gurdas Jee. And even Bhai Gurdas Jee, whose vaars are the KEY to Guru Granth Sahib, made some mistakes in his life. And for those his karma came back to him.

I don't know who we think we are to be judging these Gursikhs.

If I was completely high on drugs and having a fanatically ridiculous fantasy, I still could not imagine myself being cut joint by joint, limb by limb, body-part by body-part and the whole time reciting Jap Ji Sahib outwardly and having inner perpetual Naam Simran vibrating from my every kes and my heart.

If all of the suns in the universe were to explode precisely at the same moment, and be replaced in the very next moment by identical suns, and this continued for 10 years - the chances of that happening are higher than the chances of my dead body parts reciting Jap Ji Sahib from my living soul, in a basket, like Bhai Mani Singh jee did.

Even if somebody told me that if I say that I could do what Bhai Mani Singh Jee did - that they will give every single human being on the earth a trillion dollars a second for the rest of the existence of this Earth - and whenever somebody is born they will start giving a trillion dollars a second to them - and whenever somebody dies they will start giving a trillion dollars a second to their children - and even if the entire world could be this rich and never have any more problems - I would never, ever accept the offer.

If they say that they would make monuments of me and my family, that I would be the master of the world, but I must claim that with my own hands, I would be capable and worthy of writing the suroop of Guru Granth SAhib jee - the same suroop that Guru Gobind Singh

Jee will give gurgadhee too, I could never even be hypnotized to say this statement.

Even writing this down is an enormous weight.

But Bhai Mani Singh jee was given this seva. He must have deserved it.

I have had so many lustful thoughts, done so many lustful actions.

I have argued, insulted, fought, and taken revenge millions of times in just the last year.

My mouth is so foul and my mind is many times more foul than that.

I am so thankless that I live in a beautiful house in a nice neighbourhood but I still fight with my parents.

I have no job and I miss school on a regular basis.

I am irresponsible and can hardly make it anywhere on time.

I do my nitnem so late on so many days and don't put my heart into the ucharan.

I am so outwardly humble but inwardly egotistical.

So when I have made so many countless mistakes, how can I ever ask why Bhai Mani Singh jee made a mistake ?

At the level of a Gursikh, I have no right to do this. I am judging him by doing this.

Only Guru jee and the Sarbat Guru Khalsa panth can do this.

I don't know how we Gursikhs have the nerve to say that Bhai Mani Singh jee had an obligation to be a perfect human being.

"jae bhulee jae chukee bhee thahandee kaadeeaa"

We sing this for those of us that made millions of mistakes. Our Gursikhs vidvaans made some mistakes. Some. And we base our judgements on those - not on the millions of good deeds they did.

"laykhae kathhai chhooteeai khin khin bhulanhaar"

We make mistakes every single minute. Our lekha is so long we'll never get free.

"laykhaa chhodd alaykhae chootae"

We beg Guru jee, PLEASE LEAVE OUT MY WRITTEN ACTIONS! I will never get free if you just look at my accounts.

"daya karo kich mahar upaavo dubaday pathhar thaaro"

We are like rocks thrown into the ocean... how can we cross over.. we wi

ll drown... we beg Guru jee please please have mercy, have grace, please bless us !!

People like me - who say all these things, still have the nerve to look DOWN on Bhai Mani Singh Jee.

How can we ever look DOWN on Bhai Mani Singh jee??

Gursikhs like Bhai Mani Singh jee sacrificed all they could for Guru jee.

If they made a mistake - the sarbat KHalsa sangat decided on the mistake.

Now if we reflect on their mistakes again, it hurts the Guru, it hurts the Khalsa, it hurts the memories of Bhai Mani Singh Jee, it hurts our future.

"kirpa karo deen kae daathay maeraa gun avgun na veechaaro ko-ee"

We beg Guru jee not to reflect on our good and bad points because when we hear other people talk about us - it gives us ego.

But not just that - it disturbs hukam.

That is why People who do ninda are eating the filth of the people whose ninda they are doing. They are eating up the filth on that person's soul.

The only reason I am disturbed about this question is because I dont' want anybody to look down upon our Gursikh pyare.

If Bhai Mani Singh jee made the mistake that he wanted to re-organize gurbani and cut it into pieces, and his body was then cut into pieces,

DO NOT FORGET that when his executioner felt sympathy and tried to start at Bhai Mani Singh jee's WRIST, BHAI SAHIB SAID, "NO! Start at the first joint of my finger - this was the hukam."

This was not just the hukam for any reason. This was all part of Guru Jee's DIVINE HUKAM.

Everything - the small mistakes, the big ones, the punishments and the shaheedis - of all the Gursikhs in our history were all by hukam.

We should learn about them, but never - I can't speak on anybody's behalf - but I could never use this to judge Bhai Mani Singh jee and look down on him in ANY WAY AT ALL.

"hum nahee changay buraa nahee ko-ay"

Me looking down on Bhai Mani Singh

jee is like

Adolf Hitler having the nerve to accuse a Jewish holy saint of trying to extinguish Germans.

KP Gill having the nerve to accuse a Gursikh holy saint of arranging false encounters with police officers.

We are the paapees, we are the sinners, and we are finding the small faults in the gurmukhs.

"hum paapee vad gunehgaar"

It is so easy for us to say things that will make the Gursikhs look bad. All we do is talk and talk like I am doing now - and say things from our own brain instead of from Gurmat.

"galee asee changee aachaaree bureeaa"

We really need to stop nitpicking at the small mistakes of our mahaan Gursikhs - whether they did make those mistakes or not, and what we can learn from it - sure that is something to think about. But to accuse them of purposely "messing with Gurbani" and to look down upon them is simply ridiculous.

fareedhaa jae thoo akal latheef kaalae likh n laekh ||

aapanarrae gireevaan mehi sir na(n)aeevaa(n) kar dhaekh ||

especially in this case,

I have no right to accuse Bhai Sahib of anything.

please forgive me for my ignorance.

please ignore my bad qualities and manmat.

stay in chardee kalaa jee

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

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wjkk wjkf

apologies if u thought i was criticising/looking down on shaheed bhai mani singh....was just tryna work out why.......becuz i can understand banda singh bahadurs odd quirk.....eg not eating onions (becuz he previously a bairagi hindu)......bt this part of history has always confused me........still who am i to question

kulpreet u have raised some good points.....thnx man

wjkk wjkf

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SriMahaLaskhmiJiSahai!

In accordance with Sikh Lore, as we know Bhai Mani Singh was the first Sikh after the demise of Guru Gobind Singh Jee to compile the Dasam Granth (then known as the Dasvein Patsah Ka Granth) and also the “Panj Granthiâ€.

This latter item is essentially a collection of the customarily read portions of Gurbani collated under various headings with the common general sequence being:-

-Japuji

-Sabad Hazare

-(Sampuran) Rehiras

-(Chhota) Anand Sahib

-Kirtan Sohila

-Sidh Gost

-Dakhani Oankar

-Sukhmani Sahib

-Asa di //

Another similar collection was the Baee Vaaran (22 Vars). Compare this today with the bulks of ‘Sunder Gutkas’ that are widely available today (Nihang Singh Gutka etc) containing many combined banis (Dukhbhajan Sahib, Chandi di //, Ugardanti, Basant ki //, Dhumala de Salok etc).

To my (limited) understanding this was primarily done in order to facilitate access to the customary portions of Gurbani in the absence of enough copies of Guru Granth Sahib.

What Khalsa ‘Soulja’ appears to be referring to is the episode that Sikh Lore dictates some Sikhs got annoyed and subsequently reprimanded Bhai Mani Singh for the apparent dismembering of the Guru Granth Sahib, cursing him to die in the same manner (i.e. be dismembered by being cut to pieces limb by limb). I do not have the historical (written) accounts of this episode, although am looking into finding some more accurate references.

For me personally, the important matter arising from this possible episode, is the subsequent curriculum of Sikh education that evolved from Bhai Sahib’s efforts. This involved gradually

learning Gurbani beginning with Panj Granthi, then the Das Granthi, the Baee Vaaran followed by Sahaj Paath or slow reading of Guru Granth Sahib,and finally an Akhand Paath Bhog.

The likes of the Boparai Taksal maintain such aspects through their Santiya with various stages including completion of reading, memorising, and understanding the meaning of individually titled parts such as Sabad Hazare.

Gur Fateh,

Niranjana.

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Niranjana

I was confused as to why you have greeted your fellow Sikhs with SriMahaLaskhmiJiSahai!. I read on another thread that you are an Amritdhari. I thought the way for a Amritdhari Sikh to greet fellow Sikhs was with 'Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh'. Just curious

GurFateh

Bikramjit

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