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Guest Sadhu singh
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You've highlighted another big thing:

That's what's been going on. Many egocentric Amritdhari brothers and sisters have been using the word Gurmukh to describe themselves and their click, whilst haughtily throwing about the word manmukh to describe monay/sehajdharis or even people in other Amritdhari jathas. Truth is that these days, most Amritdharis are probably no less manmukh than the rest of the world.

I don't see the much of the physical discipline and strength, valour, courage, leadership, independent-mindedness, honour and self-sacrifice that marked out Amritdharis of the past in the ones of today. I think too many hide behind the achievements and legacy of our ancestors without taking the risks and making the sacrifices they did.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the way you fail to see our society as it is and work with that.

This is true.

Many Amritdharis today think only they are Gurmukhs, while others are "Nigure".

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So it does not make sense for someone who claims to believe in our Gurudev as their only help to not take Sri Amrit (and calling themselves a Gurmukh).. Do you understand!

Not at all. According to the SGGS ji that jacfsing quoted the definition of rare Gurmukhs are the those who truly practice naam simran. Plus I already showed you that historically Sikh society was made up of sehajdhari/monay AND Amritdharis. It's just some of you modern lot have divisively rewritten Sikh history to occlude this truth.

And in the end, none of you lot (or me) will be the ones who will ultimately be the judge of who a Gurmukh and who a manmukh is.

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So it does not make sense for someone who claims to believe in our Gurudev as their only help to not take Sri Amrit (and calling themselves a Gurmukh).. Do you understand!..

A Gurmukh does not go around calling themselves a Gurmukh.

With all due respect to Amritdharis, becoming an Amritdhari alone, without the other qualities and mehnat (effort) does not make a Gurmukh.

Bhai Vir Singh ji, Gurmukh Sikhia:

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Yes, but some people do think of themselves as one even if they are not Amritdhari.. I was talking about people calling themselves that when they are not Amritdhari but claim that they are part of our religion ji.

You are again wrong here in what you say. I'll leave it for somebody else to answer, because you don't understand, as usual.

The same thing can be said for some Amritdharis too, I've lived with those types, who call themselves Amritdhari from the top, but don't even follow the Gurujis teachings.

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I don't see the much of the physical discipline and strength, valour, courage, leadership, independent-mindedness, honour and self-sacrifice that marked out Amritdharis of the past in the ones of today. I think too many hide behind the achievements and legacy of our ancestors without taking the risks and making the sacrifices they did.

These modern day braggarts are standing on the shoulders of the giants of yesteryear, and are so hopelessly deluded and lacking self-awareness that they think they themselves are not too far off that higher echelon of Sikhi where those legends resided. Laughable and embarrassing.

At least some of us have the good grace to realise what we are, and are even shy to pretend that we're even close to being in such exalted company. Yet, the struggle continues; one has to work hard. It's the ones who believe the journey is over before any sacrifices were made, who need to have a word with themselves.

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These modern day braggarts are standing on the shoulders of the giants of yesteryear, and are so hopelessly deluded and lacking self-awareness that they think they themselves are not too far off that higher echelon of Sikhi where those legends resided. Laughable and embarrassing.

At least some of us have the good grace to realise what we are, and are even shy to pretend that we're even close to being in such exalted company. Yet, the struggle continues; one has to work hard. It's the ones who believe the journey is over before any sacrifices were made, who need to have a word with themselves.

Agree, people are judging others, but not seeing inside themselves.
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The truth is only an Amritdhari can be a Gurmukh, there might be some bad people in the group, but it is a fact that if you are trying to achieve mukhti through Sikhi, then you must be a Gurmukh, and a Gurmukh is someone who is an Amritdhari (and follows all other hukams) because that is Guru ji's hukam. If someone striving to become a Gurmukh does not follow 1 hukam then what kind of a Gurmukh is that person.

You are still not understanding what I said. But that's not a surprise.

You keep going on about that when one becomes an Amritdhari they automatically become a Gurmukh. That's rich coming from you as you have pro Hindu views and just because you are an Amritdhari I feel you are using that as an excuse to judge people that are not.

The thing you do not follow Gurujis hukams yourself with all your Pro Hindu defending topics, but give it the all mouth to judge others.

?? Saun lagi, evi khand nal boldi a main.

Again you are extending something that doesn't need to be.

Again you say one thing, then say something else. I really think are off your rocker 100 %. I also think you have an awful lot of ahankar as you being an Amritdhari, because you like to brag about it and explain things in an ahankari way.

You also yourself portray confusion when you wrote something, then completely dismiss what anybody else has said, and make out you are superior to others and then twist the post to extend it into something that's it got nothing to do with.

Do you even know what a Gurmukh is? And no, just by taking Amrit does not qualify one to become a Gurmukh like you keep making out.

Lol, reading your posts are actually quite funny. You write one thing, then another, then something else. There is no base in your posts or continuity of the posts.

Again, no point as you still don't understand what my post was about.

I will also add, it's people like you that divert people away from Sikhi, rather than bring one closer.

I also think there's more than one person in your id, or somebody is telling you to write things, because there is no constructive flow of thought in your posts.

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These modern day braggarts are standing on the shoulders of the giants of yesteryear, and are so hopelessly deluded and lacking self-awareness that they think they themselves are not too far off that higher echelon of Sikhi where those legends resided. Laughable and embarrassing.

At least some of us have the good grace to realise what we are, and are even shy to pretend that we're even close to being in such exalted company. Yet, the struggle continues; one has to work hard. It's the ones who believe the journey is over before any sacrifices were made, who need to have a word with themselves.

I don't think there is anything anyone can add to this. It encapsulates today's situation perfectly.

Look at what people have done: they've used Sikhi to perversely feed their ego and created a world of illusion around them instead of using it to tear down illusions and get closer to truth. How much more beadbi can you get?

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The truth is only an Amritdhari can be a Gurmukh, there might be some bad people in the group, but it is a fact that if you are trying to achieve mukhti through Sikhi, then you must be a Gurmukh, and a Gurmukh is someone who is an Amritdhari (and follows all other hukams) because that is Guru ji's hukam. If someone striving to become a Gurmukh does not follow 1 hukam then what kind of a Gurmukh is that person.

The thing is one should be following to this path, which is also with Wahegurus grace. Being blessed a Gurmukh is also in Wahegurus hands.

Some great posts by Harsharan paji on Gurmukhs. I was looking for this, finally found it:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/74177-mahima-of-wahiguru-his-nam-his-gurmukhs/?hl=mool

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