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Nasa Taking The Help Of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji


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On 3/11/2021 at 10:27 AM, jkvlondon said:

pasarana is to spread /expand , with one sound the universe was created which is a vibration that can still be heard now . To start from unity to the expanse and repeat the cycle then you would have to have death or collecting up of potential mass /force . Sikhi are not christians who cannot fathom other s lifeforms prior to this human domininant one sikhs  KNOW that all life is Akal Purakh and whether we came from a homo erectus prior to now that is not important for a Sikh . Are you seriously saying that Guru Granth Sahib's metaphors should be taken in literal form? are you an ex abrahamic?

Guru Sahib states how the world began, as described in Sri  Asa Ki Vaar pauri 1,  ਆਪੀਨ੍ਰੈ ਆਪੁ ਸਾਜਿਓ ਆਪੀਨ੍ਰੈ ਰਚਿਓ ਨਾਉ ॥
ਦੁਯੀ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਸਾਜੀਐ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣੁ ਡਿਠੋ ਚਾਉ ॥
ਦਾਤਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਤੂੰ ਤੁਸਿ ਦੇਵਹਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਪਸਾਉ ॥
ਤੂੰ ਜਾਣੋਈ ਸਭਸੈ ਦੇ ਲੈਸਹਿ ਜਿੰਦੁ ਕਵਾਉ ॥
ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣੁ ਡਿਠੋ ਚਾਉ ॥1॥

Not to go in detail of the Shabad, but basically Akal Purkh created a Nirgun form of himself, and then Naam Shakti. After this the creation as we know it was created and Akal Purkh sits on his throne watching the play of this world. I believe this to be literal.

Now, why this cannot be describing the Big Bang, and an evolution that took billions of years from some form of primordial being is understood by the concept of the 4 Jugs. It is clearly stated in Bani that human beings have been alive since Satyug. This would mean that for at least some millions of years ago, people like Jamgdani (father of Parshuraam), Rikhi Visthit Ji, and other people mentioned in Gurbani would have existed millions of years ago. Also we have the Sakhi of Rikhi Santokh Ji, who was sitting in meditation from Satjug, waiting for the Avtaar of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji to give him Mukti. How would fit into the scientific theory of Evolution, where human beings apparently came into existence 200-600 thousand years ago? Are these people made up? Was this Sakhi of Rikhi Santokh Ji just a "metaphor," whose name will go down in history forever in the form of the Sarovar that Guru Sahib Ji created in His name? Was this all just fabricated or a "metaphor?"

 

How about in Sri Chandi DI Vaar, where Veer Ji above has quoted. The first Pauri are as follows :

ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥
ਸਿੰਧੁ ਪਰਬਤ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਥੰਮ੍ਹਾ ਗਗਨਿ ਰਹਾਇਆ ॥
ਸਿਰਜੇ ਦਾਨੋ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਕਈ ਜੁਗ ਤਿਨੀ ਤਨੁ ਤਾਇਆ ॥
ਕਿਨੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥2॥

Guru Sahib Ji clearly states that from this known world creation, the 3 Devtay were created  (Shiv, Brahma, Vishnu) Is this too just a metaphor? Was Durga not an actual being but just a story Guru Sahib Ji copied from Hindu texts as missionaries state. Is this too all just a metaphor? 

 

How can we deny Gurmat Philosophy, history, and Gurbani. If this group of atheist scientists, who only believe in this temporal world had any solid proof of these "theories" Guru Sahib would have mentioned them in Gurbani or they would be mentioned somewhere in history. This is in response to just the big bang, I can go further in detail about other scientific lies that contradict Gurbani in another post. So, please answer some of these or all of these questions 

 

Were the people mentioned in Gurbani living from previous Jugs just metaphorical?

Was the Sakhi of Rikhi Santokh Ji made up?

is Chandi Di Vaar just a metaphor (are the 3 Devtay just made up? did Durga not exist?)

Why hasen't Guru Sahib Ji ever mentioned anything remotely related to the idea of evolution?

and Bonus, why have Scientists changed their theory on the Big Bang every 10 or so years, from stating we existed millions of years ago in the early 1900s to now coming to the theory we lived over 13 billion years ago. How can we gurantee this estimate will not change in the future?

 

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29 minutes ago, TatKhalsaa said:

Guru Sahib states how the world began, as described in Sri  Asa Ki Vaar pauri 1,  ਆਪੀਨ੍ਰੈ ਆਪੁ ਸਾਜਿਓ ਆਪੀਨ੍ਰੈ ਰਚਿਓ ਨਾਉ ॥
ਦੁਯੀ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਸਾਜੀਐ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣੁ ਡਿਠੋ ਚਾਉ ॥
ਦਾਤਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਤੂੰ ਤੁਸਿ ਦੇਵਹਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਪਸਾਉ ॥
ਤੂੰ ਜਾਣੋਈ ਸਭਸੈ ਦੇ ਲੈਸਹਿ ਜਿੰਦੁ ਕਵਾਉ ॥
ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣੁ ਡਿਠੋ ਚਾਉ ॥1॥

Not to go in detail of the Shabad, but basically Akal Purkh created a Nirgun form of himself, and then Naam Shakti. After this the creation as we know it was created and Akal Purkh sits on his throne watching the play of this world. I believe this to be literal.

Now, why this cannot be describing the Big Bang, and an evolution that took billions of years from some form of primordial being is understood by the concept of the 4 Jugs. It is clearly stated in Bani that human beings have been alive since Satyug. This would mean that for at least some millions of years ago, people like Jamgdani (father of Parshuraam), Rikhi Visthit Ji, and other people mentioned in Gurbani would have existed millions of years ago. Also we have the Sakhi of Rikhi Santokh Ji, who was sitting in meditation from Satjug, waiting for the Avtaar of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji to give him Mukti. How would fit into the scientific theory of Evolution, where human beings apparently came into existence 200-600 thousand years ago? Are these people made up? Was this Sakhi of Rikhi Santokh Ji just a "metaphor," whose name will go down in history forever in the form of the Sarovar that Guru Sahib Ji created in His name? Was this all just fabricated or a "metaphor?"

 

How about in Sri Chandi DI Vaar, where Veer Ji above has quoted. The first Pauri are as follows :

ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥
ਸਿੰਧੁ ਪਰਬਤ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਥੰਮ੍ਹਾ ਗਗਨਿ ਰਹਾਇਆ ॥
ਸਿਰਜੇ ਦਾਨੋ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਕਈ ਜੁਗ ਤਿਨੀ ਤਨੁ ਤਾਇਆ ॥
ਕਿਨੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥2॥

Guru Sahib Ji clearly states that from this known world creation, the 3 Devtay were created  (Shiv, Brahma, Vishnu) Is this too just a metaphor? Was Durga not an actual being but just a story Guru Sahib Ji copied from Hindu texts as missionaries state. Is this too all just a metaphor? 

 

How can we deny Gurmat Philosophy, history, and Gurbani. If this group of atheist scientists, who only believe in this temporal world had any solid proof of these "theories" Guru Sahib would have mentioned them in Gurbani or they would be mentioned somewhere in history. This is in response to just the big bang, I can go further in detail about other scientific lies that contradict Gurbani in another post. So, please answer some of these or all of these questions 

 

Were the people mentioned in Gurbani living from previous Jugs just metaphorical?

Was the Sakhi of Rikhi Santokh Ji made up?

is Chandi Di Vaar just a metaphor (are the 3 Devtay just made up? did Durga not exist?)

Why hasen't Guru Sahib Ji ever mentioned anything remotely related to the idea of evolution?

and Bonus, why have Scientists changed their theory on the Big Bang every 10 or so years, from stating we existed millions of years ago in the early 1900s to now coming to the theory we lived over 13 billion years ago. How can we gurantee this estimate will not change in the future?

 

The thing with scientists is that they don't necessarily deal with certainties. 

Scientific enquiry is that they find some breakthrough of what a particular evidence seems to suggest. But this is not set in stone as they tend critically view what previous discovery they made when new evidence appears and they re-review their findings. 

You will also notice that they use particular words like "likely ", "probably " etc.

It is only when journalists pick up what they said and have some click bait headline which twists what the scientist said.

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Thoughts? Im confused now lol

http://sttm.co/s/7468/76600

ਚੌਪਈ ॥
CHAUPAI

ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਕਾਲ ਜਬ ਕਰਾ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥
In the beginning when KAL created the world

ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟ ਉਪਾਰਾ ॥
It was brought into being by Aumkara (the One Lord).

ਕਾਲਸੈਣ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਭਇਓ ਭੂਪਾ ॥
Kal sain was the first king

ਅਧਿਕ ਅਤੁਲ ਬਲਿ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੂਪਾ ॥੧੦॥
Who was of immeasurable strength and supreme beauty.10.

ਕਾਲਕੇਤ ਦੂਸਰ ਭੂਅ ਭਯੋ ॥
Kalket became the second king

ਕ੍ਰੂਰ ਬਰਸ ਤੀਸਰ ਜਗ ਠਯੋ ॥
And Kurabaras, the third.

ਕਾਲਧੁਜ ਚਤੁਰਥ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਸੋਹੈ ॥
Kaldhuj was the fourth kin

ਜਿਹ ਤੇ ਭਇਓ ਜਗਤ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਹੈ ॥੧੧॥
From whom the whole world originated. 11.

ਸਹਸਰਾਛ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਸੁਭ ਸੋਹੈਂ ॥
ਸਹਸ ਪਾਦ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਤਨ ਮੋ ਹੈਂ ॥
He had a thousand eyes and thousand feet.

ਸੇਖਨਾਗ ਪਰ ਸੋਇਬੋ ਕਰੈ ॥
He slept on Sheshanaga

ਜਗ ਤਹਿ ਸੇਖਸਾਇ ਉਚਰੈ ॥੧੨॥
Therefore he was called the master of Shesha.12.

ਏਕ ਸ੍ਰਵਣ ਤੇ ਮੈਲ ਨਿਕਾਰਾ ॥
Out of the secretion from one of his ears

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟਭ ਤਨ ਧਾਰਾ ॥
Madhu and Kaitabh came into being.

ਦੁਤੀਯ ਕਾਨ ਤੇ ਮੈਲੁ ਨਿਕਾਰੀ ॥
And from the secretion of the other ear

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਭਈ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ ॥੧੩॥
The whole world materialized.13.

ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਕਾਲ ਬਹੁਰ ਬਧ ਕਰਾ ॥
After some period the Lord killed the demons (Madhu and Kaitabh).

ਚਿਕਨ ਤਾਸ ਜਲ ਪਰ ਤਿਰ ਰਹੀ ॥
The greasy substance floated thereon because of that medital (marrow)

ਮੇਧਾ ਨਾਮ ਤਬਹਿ ਤੇ ਕਹੀ ॥੧੪॥
The earth was called medha (or medani).14.

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On 3/12/2021 at 6:29 PM, TatKhalsaa said:

Not to go in detail of the Shabad, but basically Akal Purkh created a Nirgun form of himself, and then Naam Shakti. After this the creation as we know it was created and Akal Purkh sits on his throne watching the play of this world. I believe this to be literal.

I wouldn't take it to be literal like God is sitting up in the heavens watching us... ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places. ||1||Pause||

 

On 3/12/2021 at 6:29 PM, TatKhalsaa said:

Guru Sahib Ji clearly states that from this known world creation, the 3 Devtay were created  (Shiv, Brahma, Vishnu) Is this too just a metaphor? Was Durga not an actual being but just a story Guru Sahib Ji copied from Hindu texts as missionaries state. Is this too all just a metaphor? 

I think they were all actual beings and not just stories/metaphors though I am confused on if Shiv, Brahma, and Vishnu were created first...can someone explain that?

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3 hours ago, intrigued said:

Thoughts? Im confused now lol

http://sttm.co/s/7468/76600

ਚੌਪਈ ॥
CHAUPAI

ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਕਾਲ ਜਬ ਕਰਾ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥
In the beginning when KAL created the world

ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟ ਉਪਾਰਾ ॥
It was brought into being by Aumkara (the One Lord).

ਕਾਲਸੈਣ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਭਇਓ ਭੂਪਾ ॥
Kal sain was the first king

ਅਧਿਕ ਅਤੁਲ ਬਲਿ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੂਪਾ ॥੧੦॥
Who was of immeasurable strength and supreme beauty.10.

ਕਾਲਕੇਤ ਦੂਸਰ ਭੂਅ ਭਯੋ ॥
Kalket became the second king

ਕ੍ਰੂਰ ਬਰਸ ਤੀਸਰ ਜਗ ਠਯੋ ॥
And Kurabaras, the third.

ਕਾਲਧੁਜ ਚਤੁਰਥ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਸੋਹੈ ॥
Kaldhuj was the fourth kin

ਜਿਹ ਤੇ ਭਇਓ ਜਗਤ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਹੈ ॥੧੧॥
From whom the whole world originated. 11.

ਸਹਸਰਾਛ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਸੁਭ ਸੋਹੈਂ ॥
ਸਹਸ ਪਾਦ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਤਨ ਮੋ ਹੈਂ ॥
He had a thousand eyes and thousand feet.

ਸੇਖਨਾਗ ਪਰ ਸੋਇਬੋ ਕਰੈ ॥
He slept on Sheshanaga

ਜਗ ਤਹਿ ਸੇਖਸਾਇ ਉਚਰੈ ॥੧੨॥
Therefore he was called the master of Shesha.12.

ਏਕ ਸ੍ਰਵਣ ਤੇ ਮੈਲ ਨਿਕਾਰਾ ॥
Out of the secretion from one of his ears

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟਭ ਤਨ ਧਾਰਾ ॥
Madhu and Kaitabh came into being.

ਦੁਤੀਯ ਕਾਨ ਤੇ ਮੈਲੁ ਨਿਕਾਰੀ ॥
And from the secretion of the other ear

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਭਈ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ ॥੧੩॥
The whole world materialized.13.

ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਕਾਲ ਬਹੁਰ ਬਧ ਕਰਾ ॥
After some period the Lord killed the demons (Madhu and Kaitabh).

ਚਿਕਨ ਤਾਸ ਜਲ ਪਰ ਤਿਰ ਰਹੀ ॥
The greasy substance floated thereon because of that medital (marrow)

ਮੇਧਾ ਨਾਮ ਤਬਹਿ ਤੇ ਕਹੀ ॥੧੪॥
The earth was called medha (or medani).14.

All these Kings probably existed during Satyug and probably were celestial Kings with their own abodes/realms, rather than living on earth. 

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