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~! Danger Of Bhausaria Mindset In The Panth !~


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I've grown up doing sadh sangat with saints pretty much my whole life in canada and visiting india for samagams...

To be honest..i never heard about Bausaria or even the so-called "nangs" until i started visiting the forums...

Although i totally disagree with the bausauria interpretation where they question the need for saints, where they question bani in guru granth sahib and where they question the bani of dasmesh pita....

i can understand why people aren't convinced by the sampardaic arguments....for which the main argument i see time and time again is LINEAGE....i think that is a load of bullocks...

i mean...if an organization has been around since the time of guru sahib...that really doesn't mean much at the end of the day, besides the historic significance...we have seen members of these sampardas meeting with RSS representatives...

we have seen sant samaj remain quiet on issues of some so-called saints who have been accused of doing some atrocities (whether true or not...but as a samaj, i believe it's their responsibility to be vigilant and conduct proper investigations)

and a lot of the answers to questions are "because sant ji (pick whichever mahapurkh) said so"

Such explanations will work for shardalus...someone tells me mahapursh said something i will do deep vichar on it and try to see where mahapurkh was coming from..and if i still don't see it...i won't say they're wrong, but leave it aside for the moment, hoping that in time and experience i may understand the bachan of that mahapurkh...but i am like this because i have done sangat of mahapurkhs...

to those people who have not done the sangat of mahapurkhs, and are not accustomed to the relationship between mahapurkhs and shardalus...simply saying that sant ji said it....won't work for them....we have to explain what the mahapurkhs have said...and make it relevant to their questions....

i don't see that happening in the vast majority of cases...

i have a lot of respect for sampardas and everyone who lives and does parchar of simran, seva, sangat....but at the same time...i feel that "students" of these sampardas always push a "sampardaic agenda"...i don't think it's necessary....you can still do the parchar that goes on in sampardas wihtout pushing samparda in everyone's face...because human nature isn't always to pay attention to the good you are saying, but what they can find fault in it....

if you are okay with that then there is no change required....but if you're truly sincere about getting rid of the bhausauria mindset...we need to change to a more effective tactic...

in fact....i personally think writing or talking against "the other side" creates more problems than solves things....people here are talking about missionaries and bhausauria and how the psycho profs....none of that is necessary...all we need to do is live the life that our gurus preached, take inspiration from the jeevans of mahapurkhs...and spread that nanak love... no one beat nanak love...it has never been done...and never will be done...

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yes bhasauria mindset is a danger, but just as equally dangerous is the Bippar/Brahmnical mindset of some "snatanists"

The snatanist as you put it, there is no such thing as snatanist, all the puratan samparda's label themselves as puratan because of seena-basina tradition either its historical or oral, sanatan term as a tradition was newly invented term by nihangs in uk.

I do agree no samparda whether puratan or new is 100% perfect, but hopefully this comparison will show sangat, they are not anywhere close to closed minded bhusaria mindset when it comes to bhram vidya, gurbani gyan and holding spiritual/oral traditions.

1. People who have adapted this bhusaria mindset when they found out most of the sikhs follow bikrami calendar, they felt so insecure because somehow they have audacity to link bikrami calendar with bhramins/hinduism create confusion and sansas in the sangat and in reality bikrami calendar had nothing to bhraminism or hinduism because calendar is not made by pandits they are made by indian vigyaniks(sceintist) who are more attuned with nature and parkartiyas, chalo i ll make it more easier. China is fully driven by communism not religion yet they have their own chinese calendar. how do you explain this?

Rejecting bikrami because they promotes bhraminnism was one thing, then they have audacity to introduce nanaksahi calendar in panth which is based on christian dates, this is too classic. If bikrami calendar is bhramins driven as they claim it, one can argue on same token nanaksahi is christian driven therefore christian vad. Watch when missionary christians started playing with sikhs in india like rss did, these insecure sikhs will try to link sikh gurpurbs and other events with different traditions dates, another purewal will come out of nowhere scream out of his lungs- OH THIS IS CHRISTIANVAAAAAAAAAAD, MAHA MANMAT...their mindset is insecure, insecure mindset is never accurate!

2. People who follow bhusaria mindset, when it comes interpertating or translating gurbani, they want make everything in gurbani logical align with vigyan(sceince), align with vikyaran.

- How could you make logical sense of bani which came from dhur(divine)?

- How could you align with gurbani sidhant with vigyan? Since sceince is limited to one's buddhi, where wordly sceince stops, thats where atamik gyan starts.

- How could you translate whole gurbani based on just vikayaran? Vikyaran applies to normal granths but sri guru granth sahib came from dhur, you need anubhav parkash to fully interpret gurbani not vikayaran.

Eg- baba isher singh ji kalyugwale released a teeka decade ago in response to rss, this teeka have 500 adhyatamic(spiritual) arths of "Vahiguroo" mantar. People with bhausaria mindset cannot even accept one meaning of vahiguroo mantar in bhai gurdas ji varan calling it manmat because it usues yugs.

Not only that bhausaria panthis dont beleive giving shabad hazaree in sri guru granth sahib as an status of guru because they beleive this shabad was written by 5th guru before he became sri guru arjan dev ji. This black and white mentality and nit picking on gurbani is extermely dangerous.

3. Bhausaria panthis have only soo far came up with one line translations of gurbani based on only and only vikayaran. However puratan samparda's have long list of deep teekas of sri guru granth sahib ji, sri dasam granth sahib based on mixture of vikharyan, uthanka and most importantly anubhav parkash.

Here is one example of many- Sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale wrote a teeka which is close to 1000 pages long, is consist of only japji sahib, rehras sahib and kirtan sohila only.

Gyan in the teeka is soo deep that it will require your whole life time of studying vidya, guru di mat/gurbani vaikhiya isnt simple or black and white where you go to missionary college for 12 months, take some course and come out as so called proffesor or gyani.

4. All the puratan samparda's consider bhai gurdas ji varan an key to gurbani as opposed to bhausaria panthis which subtly in their parchar, creating confusion and doubts among sangat on authencity of bhai gurdas ji varan and status of bhai gurdas ji in guru ghar.

5. Bhausaria panthis lack any real research on sri dasam granth, they create doubts and confusion among sangat by writing guerilla type/nit picking type articles on compositions of sri dasam granth sahib- EG- They beleive mitr pyare nuo shabad cannot be written by sri guru gobind singh ji because guru ji would never refer to vahiguroo as mitr, totally missing out the adhyatamic connotation's on the shabad. They also think guru ji was soo humble that he cannot write bachatir natak which talks about his own autiobiography, they are fully influenced by Protestant thinking which puts rules and regulations on avtars. They have certain mindset of how guru's mat was when they were in physical body, they started comparing guru's by that mindset.

anyway enough of my babling, people should realize bhausaria mindset is very dangerous to khalsa panth, this threat is far more damaging and serious than rss, nirankaris, radhaswamis, bjp, congress together. They have in the past attempted to tamper with gurbani and have very intentions to do this in future.

We are all proud of sri guru granth sahib ji being first dharamic granth in the world actually written by guru's and can actually be fully authenciated by guru's signatures in puratans birs/manuscripts. We are proud of this fact as opposed to quran, bible, puran, smrithiyas which were written thousands of thousands years ago which cannot be fully authenciated. Don't fool yourself sangat this very bhausaria mindset already started to creation confusion and doubts on jaap sahib, tav parsad svaiye, chaupi sahib part of amrit sanchar banis, their future target is very clear- bhai gurdas ji varan, sukhmani sahib asthapathidiyas. I wouldnt be suprised in next 200 years or so these bhausaria panthis will be successful created their own reformed version of sri guru granth sahib ji and started placing in your local gurdwaras if massive puratan parchar is not done.

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How dare you defame the name of budha dal

Just coz niddar spews his baqwaas in uk doesnt mean anything - he has nothing to do with real budha dal rehat hes just an rss agent

ohmy.gif Really?

So Budha Dal consider him a rougue element....if this is true, then Budha Dal needs to get rid because he's said some wacky things which Ive formed my opinion on the Dal on.

Also if he has nothing to do With the Dal how come he was there to do Dastar Bandi thing of the new Jathedar? or did he just turn up uninvited? dont worry he does that in UK too. :lol:

The guys got anger problems anyway so I aint got a clue how anyone can get gyan from someone who has no control over vices.

As for this topic...the mainstream of Sikhs will also be the same! There's two extremes one who accept anything and everything cos some sant said so and are extreme sant followers (sanatans etc) and the other that doubt everything!!!(Bhausaria) Majority of people dont give a damm either way and work on thier own Standard Akal Takhat Sikhi and dont fall into the traps of either...extremes will alwats exist, but REAL SIKHI shall always flourish and is the mainstream...doubt that and your doubting Guru's Panth! :nihungsmile:

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There are two extreme mindsets at present, the mindset that rejects anything to do with a Hindu influence and the mindset that accepts anything that is placed before it as long as there is an elaborate sakhi or some made up story behind it. One mindset can be called the Nang mindset and to a lesser degree Buddha Dal and the other by Bhasauria followers like Kala Afghana.

Both take things to the extreme, if one reads the earlier life of Teja Singh Bhausauria then one gets the impression that here was a Gursikh who was making an all out effort to rid Sikhi of the influence of Hinduism. He was against caste when the Nihangs, Nirmalas and the so-called descendents of the Gurus and the other so-called original sapardhas were discriminating against low castes. He looked for answers in Gurbani and questioned the mixture of Hinduism and Popular beliefs that went by the name of Sikhism during his time. At some stage he veered off the Sikhi path and went on to become a Tankhaiya thinking that he knew more than the Gurus and splitting the Bhagat Bani from the Guru Granth Sahib. The same is the case with the other extreme, the Nangs and some factions of Buddha Dal. They will accept any story and anything as long as one of the Gurus is mentioned in the story. They will accept any text that is presented to them and consider it to be Gurbani. They wil believe in lords of the rings type stories about hidden texts and hidden knowledge!

The middle way of Sikhi is the Singh Sabha, AKJ and DDT.

bikkie i dont agree with your statement budda dal being on exterme end just like bhausaria types - kala afhgana/missionary groups, but i do agree with you and share with your full sentiments is caste distincation and discrimination have sadly crept into many puratan samparda's. Just for your information i think this caste disctincation is not limited to budda dal, nirmale but taksal bhindran had this distincation too, they would call them chauti pauri- mazbhi, this pratice was alive around sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale time when he was living in Bhindran Taksal, and this practise is still active in bhindran dera. Sant Mohan singh ji is head of bhindrankalan dera now. This praticise was later taken out by sant kartar singh ji bhindranwale but what boggles to my mind, significance of caste distincation in samparda's, this appears to be problem with all samparda's not just one. I yet to have find an convincing argument for this praticise, only argument i have heard for this caste distincation is how different caste do different work in punjabi back in time, for eg- not that I beleive in caste distincation, basically the argument was how mabhzi back in the time because of their work were always dirty like their clothes, to keep sanity in the darbar they were given special area, so they can take laha of the katha and kirtan and also dont break the sanity of the darbar...thats what i have got soo far, i dont think there is anyway you can justify this. As i said earlier, i dont beleive puratan samparda's are 100% perfect but as opposed to new groups i do beleive samparda have more gyan, vidya, deptness of gurbani to offer, for eg- I see nirmale being sufi of sikhism because of the depth and gyan they have to offer from gurbani, also besides soo many sant/soormaie's they came from this samparda, yet even then they are not perfect because of praticise like caste distincation crept in them. Thats why i encourage its ok to live your own life according to sampardaic traditions but speaking from the context of panth, we should consider five takths being significant authority of the panth, even all the sants from puratan samparda's encourage this too.

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It's strange that some people don't mind using words such as psycho missionaries and thereby undermine the missionary colleges of Punjab who are doing a sterling job there but when I mention Buddha Dal or sections of it that have an extreme mindset then its defamation!

Namstang,

You are right in the sense that some sampardha have gyan but this is also the case with mainstream Sikh organisations. Don't judge Singh Sabha or Missionaries by what the SGPC or what Badal does. Just as you shouldn't judge some of the Babas by the kartootan of some of the so-called Babas in Punjab.

The discrimination based on caste was one of the main reasons that Singh Sabha started, it split into Lahore and Amritsar sections because a section of them such as Bhai Jawahar Singh and Gyani Dit Singh wanted to take this to the logical end that just as you cannot treat someone as lower than others then you can't also treat someone as special compared to other Sikhs. One of the reasons that for the split was because the tradionalist Baba Khem Singh as a descendent of Guru Nanak wanted to be allowed to have a cushion to sit on in the presence of Guru Ganth Sahib and he was addressed as a Guru by his followers.

The explanantion for the discrimination of lower castes by Sampardas is pure bukwas. Did the lower castes sit seperately in the sangat during the Gurus times?

As one of the other posters said, the sampardas rely on 'baba says so' answers whereas Bhausaria types rely on their own intellect solely and think that their mat is higher than Gurmat. True Sikhi lies in between, it's a mixture of faith and intellect.

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"It's strange that some people don't mind using words such as psycho missionaries and thereby undermine the missionary colleges of Punjab who are doing a sterling job there but when I mention Buddha Dal or sections of it that have an extreme mindset then its defamation! "

With all due respect what qualifies you to judge the 'Budha Dal mindset'. What research have you done and what time have you spent with the Budha Dal (not a few random blokes in the UK).

Also nice attempt to associate the DDT and AKJ when infact DDT in India is much closer to the Budha Dal. And if they were close to the Singh Sabha or the 'middle way' then im sure Sant Gurbuchan Singh Bhinderanwale would not have outrighly refused to attend any meetings when the 'middle way' Akal Takht maryada was being formed last century, but ofcourse we all know that he rejected the meetings as he knew that were just going to shorted the maryada of Gursikhs and make it easier.

More importantly; please tell me what text the Budha Dal believes in that DDT dont belive in. Im am guessing you are referring to Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji, in yet another one of your cheap attacks on Nihang Singhs which you never tire from. Well it well known that Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh and many older Singhs from taksal and santhiya of this, also theres a video on google video of Baba Harnam Singh (whether or not one believes hes jathedar) he cery clearly states the view of taksal on on Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji. Not just DDT other taksals and sampradas such as Harkhowal mahapursh also fully believe in Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji. So please be aware when you try to isolate the Budha Dal from the rest of the panth and slander their beliefs that you are actually also attacking many well established and well serving organisations in the Panth such as DDT.

As for the Sikh Missionary College (Ludhiana), it doesnt matter how many publications or courses they teach when what they are teaching is reformed Sikhi based on their own and not Gurmat, i.e. challenging authenticity of Dasam Pathshah's bani. Psycho missionaries may be referring to 'offshots' of the Sikh Missionary College (who many think actually belong to the core of Sikh Missionary but have been disassociated) such as Kala Afghana and Ghaggha.

Gyani Sher Singh highlights the serious loopholes in missionary in his short 15 min lecture, definetely worth a listen. I am sure you will enjoy the lecture as there are interesting references from the works of Gyani Dit Singh. The quote from Sant Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwale that he mentions is just too classic.

http://www.santsipahi.org/media/Gyani%20Sher%20Singh.mp3

Gurfateh

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