Tarmalaey ?

[munjoth]

wrong akj_4eva_akj

here is an article on where each one does there assan:

They have conquered the five 'doots', evil spirits of Maya and have achieved the bliss within themselves by uniting with God. Their journey on this planet which started in Satjug has come to an end by their worship of God, cleansing of their mind with Naam thru Japna/ Simrnna; pure thoughts, words and deeds, thru blessings of the Guru, help of True Sants on their spiritual journey and Grace of God Who accepted them back to Its House, Sehaj Ghar. Their minds have reached the 'turiya avastha'/ chautha pad', the spiritual realm.

They are all given unique assignmens by God or by their ownn choice to select one of the four positions to serve Him or revel in the gift of Naam or dhian or gian as Sants, Sadhus, Bhagats and Brahm Gianis . These positions are very briefly discussed below on the basis of Gurbani..

SANT

Sant is assigned the location where Anhad Sabad of God goes on all the time. Sant relishes this Anahad Sabad/Bani/Dhun

"Teh geet Naad akharay sanga. Oohan Bhagat karay Har ranga." p-739

The Sants have access to the Spiritual wealth of Anhad Bani and holds the key to this.They can help the seeker to this Anhad Sabad:

"Anhad banee poonji. Santan hath rakhee koonji." p-893

Sants will brief the seekers on 'akath katha' the invisible path to reach the Supreme Being. This is their assignment.

"Kahaiy Nanak suno Santo katheo kath khanee." p-918

Thru this Anhad Bani which God Himself is uttering inside every body, will reveal this unknown path to the seeker when they hear it under guidance and help of a Sant:":Har ki katha Anahad Bani." p-439

Sants become servants of God and have easy access to His mansion. They know well their Divine Master and will guide the seeker to Him:

"Pucho ja-ay pdhaooan chalay chakar ho-ay.Rajan jaa-nay apna dar ghar thaak na hoay." p-57

The Sants are directed by God to do simran on Gurmantra above everything else and help others to do the same to bring peace to them.

"Saajan Sant karo eh kaam. Aan tiag japo Har Naam.Simar simar sukh paavo. Aap japo avray Naam japavoh." p-290

SADHU

Sadhus are blessed with doing 'kirtan' , singing praises of Naam and the True One. The Sadhus will deliver this 'kirtan' to those who accept Guru'sword as Truth:"Ram Naam kirtan rattan vath Sadhu paas rakheejay.Jo bachan Gur sat sat kar ma-naiy tis aa-gaiy kaadh dhreejaiy." p1326

Since Sehaj Dhun goes on with Naam, Sadhus stay with Sehaj Dhun.If we keep the company of Sadhus and renouncing our ego beg their help, they will help us cross the Bhavjal/ Agan Sagar by bringing us to the treasure of Naam.

"Aap shod benati karoh.Sadh sang agan sagar taro." 295

If we desire the Four Cardinal Gifts, we should go and serve Sadhus:

"Chaar pdarath je ko mangay. Sadh jana kee sewa laagay." p266

To meet our True Lord, which is the only purpose of this human birth, one is advised that the only important thing in life is to do is Japna in the company of a Sadh:

"Bhaee parapt manukh dehuria. Gobind milan kee ehi teri baria.Avar kaaj teray kitay na kaam. Mil sadh sangat bhaj kewal Naam."p-12

BHAGAT

Bhagat stays in high comfortable spiritual palaces of Sookh Mehal

"Sookh mehal jan kay ooch dwaray.Ta meh vassay bhagat piaaray." p-739

They are always imbued with peace of God's Naam:

"Sukhmani sukh amrit Prabh NaamBhagat jana kay mun bisram." p262

Bhagat's food for mind is only Hari Naam and they are always heard singing praises of God. They live in the Nij Ghar serving God and win respect at the door of His Mansion:"Bhagtan ka bhojan Hari Naam Niranjan pehnan bhagat bdaeeNij Ghar vaasa sada Har sewan Har Dar sobha paaee." p-1233

In Japuji Sahib, Guru Ji has dedicated four pauries to Bhagats .They are always in peace and happiness and listening to them many a grief andsins are dispelled:"Nanak Bhagtan sada vigas. Sunniay dookh paap ka naas." p-2.

God loves His Bhagats and they look beautiful singing his praises atHis door:"Bhagat teray mun bhanvday. Dar sohan keertan ganvday." 262

BRAHM GIANI

Brahm Giani is a seeker whose mind is fully awakened into spiritual realm and lives in Sach Ghar having gained independence from doots of Maya. He is liberated from the cycle of reincarnations:.

"Sache mehal niwaas nirantar avan jaan chukaaia." p--7

The food for his mind is Brahm Gian or the knowledge of Infinite Being. His mind is all the time absorbed in deep meditation of Supreme Lord."Brahngiani ka bhojan gian.Nanak Brahm Giani ka Brahm dhian." p-273

There is no difference in the nature of God and Brahm Giani.

"Nanak Brahm Giani aap Parmesar." 273

They are most of the time in deep meditation and serve God and do simran in that state only. Their mind is always in self control and remain pure all the time:

"Nadri Satgur seveeay nadri sewa hoay. Nadar eh mun vas aavay nadri mun nirmal ho-ay." p-558

[nobody singh]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh!!!

I attend the Swindon diwaans weekly for 2.5 years and i am shocked at the amount of rumours that have escalated from peoples own perception of things. I am hurt that in a place where people are learning the Guru Granth Sahibs teachings is in much debate and also the place where the importance of NAAM SIMRAN on the Gur-shabad is stressed is also the target of nindeiyai.

Before I continue I would like to highlight the approach in which I have seen kh@lsa respond to swindon sangath member! Swindon sangath member has explained facts in where he promised to write your account of Swindon once you have satisfied your own conditions and to ask Bhai Sahib questions. Due to this, now you attempt to destroy his credibility and ur doing this by accusing Swindon sangath member of threats and thus drawing the attention away from the main reason for this discussion.

Munjoth singh has explained your queries using Gurbani and yet you are not prepared to let go of your own knowledge. With this you respond with wild comments such as ‘u are digging ur own grave’ when those who examine these talks very closely to work out who is credible and who is not, will see that you are going in circles.

The fact of the matter bro is that you have not done simran yourself. You rely on other peoples opinion and judge without experiencing anything yourself. I can applaud u on one thing, and that is that u did go to Swindon to check it out urself but THAT WAS IT. The questions you asked (to munjoth on a previous thread) were already explained in the diwaan and u didn’t take even a single thing with u except dukh from the diwaan. From what I perceive of this, you didn’t listen and went with a one track mind…hence not open to anything and already had a judgement.

I have read that u refer to anand Shabad ‘some anand shabad’. One can only listen to the anand Shabad if they do simran and with Waheguru’s kirpa. Also ‘amrit russ’ is only obtained through the simran of Waheguru mantra. You have stated that a person is only able to fight the 5 choor with the power of amrit and u are referring to this amrit coming externally (khanda bata). However Guru Sahib explains differently:

jin vaddiaaee thaerae naam kee thae ruthae mun maahi

Those who are blessed with the glorious greatness of Your Name - their minds are imbued with Your Love.

naanuk anmrith eaek hai dhoojaa anmrith naahi

O Nanak, there is only One Ambrosial Nectar; there is no other nectar at all.

naanuk anmrith munai maahi paaeeai gur purusaadh

O Nanak, the Ambrosial Nectar is obtained within the mind, by Guru's Grace.

thinuee peethaa rung sio jinu ko likhiaa aadh

They alone drink it in with love, who have such pre-ordained destiny. ||1||

As you can see in accordance with Guru Granth Sahib Ji what munjoth singh explained matches. He explained that the punj piyaria will create amrit from this world and match exactly to what the amrit tastes like that is coming from the mind itself INTERALLY thanks to Waheguru Ji. This is obtained internally within the mind and only through the gur-shabad/gur-mantra. The following also confirms that amrit is only obtained through the ‘shabad’ AND it will also highlight another thing said that ‘doubts’ will occur until we obtain the true essence of Guru Sahibs teachings:

Awsw mhlw 1 ] (352-11)

Aasaa, First Mehl:

gurmiq swcI hujiq dUir ] (352-12, Awsw, mhlw 1)

Receiving the True Teachings from the Guru, arguments depart.

bhuqu isAwxp lwgY DUir ] (352-12, Awsw, mhlw 1)

But through excessive cleverness, one is only plastered with dirt.

lwgI mYlu imtY sc nwie ] (352-12, Awsw, mhlw 1)

The filth of attachment is removed by the True Name of the Lord.

(Meaning simran) AND

siqguru syiv AMimRq rsu cwKy ]3] (352-16, Awsw, mhlw 1)

Serving the True Guru, they drink in the Amrit, the Ambrosial Nectar. ||3||

clqau mnu rwKY AMimRqu cwKY ] (352-16, Awsw, mhlw 1)

The unstable mind is restrained by tasting this Nectar.

siqgur syiv AMimRq sbdu BwKY ] (352-16, Awsw, mhlw 1)

Serving the True Guru, one comes to cherish the Ambrosial Nectar of the Shabad.

swcY sbid mukiq giq pwey ] (352-17, Awsw, mhlw 1)

Through the True Word of the Shabad, the state of liberation is obtained.

nwnk ivchu Awpu gvwey ]4]13] (352-17, Awsw, mhlw 1)

O Nanak, self-conceit is eradicated from within. ||4||13||

So yes, indirectly you are correct that we need amrit but Guru Sahib is talking about the internal amrit and this is only obtained through naam simran and through the gur-shabad. Satguru ki seva is simran, seva of Guru’s ghar and Guru’s sangath is important also but in this contexts Satguru’s seva is giving your head/mind with ONE POINT OF FOCUS to Waheguru gur-shabad!

You have classed the Swindon sangath along the lines of brain washed, chela and sheep. To the contrary, due to the brahim giane I have obtained from Swindon (in which all has been from Gurbani) I have a much much much more open mind than I did before. I don’t see life the way I did before and its vital to note that u attended Swindon once whereas I have been attending with Waheguru’s kirpa for a few years. You also went with a closed mind and listened to Nindeyai whereas I did not. Also only those who do Nindeyai will hear it.

As for the remark of chela, as munjoth singh explained that our MIND is supposed to be the chela of Waheguru gur-shabad. Also this approach to the importance of the gur-shabad is stressed repeatedly at Swindon and to be honest I didnt adopt this approach of thinking until I went to Swindon due to the brahim giane expressed there.

Sikhs talk about giving there head to Waheguru, but it is not giving your head to Waheguru but your mind. When we do naam simran we are giving our mind to Waheguru in which we are trying to merge with the gur-shabad and become the chela of the gur-shabad. Saying and doing are 2 different things and simran is the key to give the mind to Waheguru (hence naam simran which is stressed in Swindon).

Another thing bro, you went there with your mind set already shaped, u only attended one diwaan and you haven’t done or started any simran urself. In order to understand most of what is discussed in Swindon is by doing the practical naam simran. If we don’t do simran then how can we aim to merge with Waheguru and experience his PRICELESS GIFTS of which he can only distribute with his will?

Read this carefully……….

Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:

bheiee paraapath maanukh dhaehureeaa ||

This human body has been given to you.

gobi(n)dh milan kee eih thaeree bareeaa ||

This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe.

avar kaaj thaerai kithai n kaam ||

Nothing else will work.

mil saadhhasa(n)gath bhaj kaeval naam ||1||

Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; vibrate and meditate on the Jewel

of the Naam. ||1||

as munjoth has mentioned ‘koi an milavia mera preethum piyara’...if we really wanted to meet Waheguru we should do ANYTHING to meet Waheguru. there are souls out there searching long and hard and crying everyday to Waheguru so that they can merge with him. If we really have that much thirst to meet Waheguru then why are we not doing simran in which Gurbani tells us to do all the time:

guraa ik dahi bujhaa-ee.

The Guru has given me this one understanding:

sabhnaa jee-aa kaa ik daataa so mai visar na jaa-ee. ||5||

there is only the One, the Giver of all souls. May I never forget Him! ||5||

not only that…but listen kh@lsa singh, IF u die before u reach Waheguru (I really hope u and everyone else in the world doesn’t) can we really tell Waheguru ‘I tried everything to meet u while I was alive?’. The fact of the matter is, you cant. Bhai Sahib stresses naam simran and meeting Waheguru (the Gurudwara is called Prabh Milna Ka Chao- have the desire to meet God)! Atleast you could have gone for 2 months (every Sunday) start your simran at home (swaas swaas simran) and have an open mind in what is going on. Its ridiculous to have a judgement on a place when u been there once and haven’t even tried to understand whats going on. Also when u are being told what is happened u are shutting off from what is being said. Ontop of it all, the only thing that will clear your doubts is SIMRAN! That’s it!!! What hurts me is that people don’t do simran and then formulate an opinion. How can u formulate an opinion on the teachings in Swindon about simran and spiritual experiences when u haven’t done any simran urself and had spiritual experience? There is no basis or foundation for ur argument except for the way in which u perceived things (the rumours that r going around). The only way u r going to find out if something is powerful is if u do it. Not only that but the reasons behind it will be explained to u (of the swaas swaas simran jugti if u come to Swindon and other things wil fall into place) and if u are still not satisfied then just do the simran and the reasons will unfold to u if u do it properly (with Waheguru’s kirpa alone).

What I also want to point out is the use of these ‘levels’ or ‘stages’. From what I can see they seem to be affiliated with ego and I can assure u that this is not the case! First of all, I refer to these as ‘stages of love’ the more simran we do, is inevitably showing our love to Waheguru. as explained below:

laekhaa likheeai mun kai bhaae

The account is written of the loves of the mind.

naanuk bheejai saachai naae

O Nanak, the Lord is won over only by His Name. ||2||

Gurbani explains to us that we can only win over Waheguru by doing naam simran and the more simran we do, IF Waheguru wills…the more gifts we get:

eaek naam dheeou mun munthaa binas n kuthehoo jaath

He gave my mind the Mantra of the Naam, the Name of the One Lord, which shall never perish or leave me. ||1||

sathigur poorai keenee dhaath

The Perfect True Guru has given this gift

Then the more GIFTS we get, the higher our stages of love increases for Waheguru, hence peoples level or stage increases. It seems as though people avaastha’s are linked to ego when people CAN NOT go any further with ego as explained in Gurbani that where there is ego there can be no NAAM. Therefore please do not link a person explaining there experiences or link avaastha’s to ego as this is just not the case. As stated in Gurbani:

thoo(n) karathaa karanaa mai naahee jaa ho karee n hoee ||1||

You are the Creator Lord; I can do nothing. Even if I try, nothing happens. ||1||

Just because someone does a lot of simran doesn’t mean they are going to get gifts, it depends on whether they are doing it properly (with the correct intentions, jugti’s) and also there karam and Waheguru’s kirpa which is the ultimate.

Also kh@lsa veer, there have been many questions posed over these last threads (I think in the other Nindeyai topic) on which u haven’t answered. Some singh (cant remember who) asked u to explain the jugti’s of roam roam simran (how to start it) and where one goes thereafter to meet Waheguru and refer to naam abiyaas books that u have said. someone requested where roam roam simran is stated in Gurbani:

romae rom rom romae mai gurumukh raam dhiaaeae raam

With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord.

raam naam dhiaaeae pavith hoe aaeae this roop n raekhiaa kaaee

I meditate on the Lord's Name, and become pure; He has no form or shape.

And

rom rom raviaa har naam

The Lord's Name permeates each and every hair of mine.

sathigur poorai keeno dhaan

The Perfect True Guru has given me this gift. ||1||

This is not a Shabad in which we just use this as an example and marvel on how much love Guru Sahib had for Waheguru, so that if his hair could say Gods name, they would!…if we are Sikh then we take all of Gurbani as fact (a point continually highlighted at Swindon) and thus this answers the ‘so called roam roam simran’ question and where it is told in Gurbani. Now as for the jugti, its explained by Bhai Seva Singh and Bhai Sahib when we are at the right stages of love (or hence state of mind). WHY THOUGH? U will find out if u come Swindon and do simran practically urself. The thing is, this thread has gone on 2 much and discussions has been drifting slightly to catch people out (eg I am glad u stuck to ur story) and a <admin-profanity filter activated> for tat conversation and ofcourse in which Sikhs can not keep a basic condition and thus express there radical opinion on the internet.

And what affects me the absolute most…and MOST OF ALL is that there are souls who could be reading this who are crying day and night to meet Waheguru and Nindeyai (what Gurbani tells us not to do) has stopped them! This is the most sad thing of all and not only is this <admin-profanity filter activated> for tat discussion an insult to Guru Sahibs Teachings but it is an big insult for someone coming into this wonderful dharam and because we cant lead by example it has set off a person dishearted. One thing I said to myself is that I wil go STRAIGHT to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and not look at the action of other Sikhs as the Guru alone is complete and I thank the teachings I got at Swindon for this mentality. DO NOT PLAY WITH ANOTHER PERSONS LIFE. If u are so sure that Swindon is pakhand then please let people make there own minds up. If its that obvious that this is pakhand then I am sure 100% of the people that come will agree with u.

Just for those concerned on what I do at Swindon and I am sure kh@lsa singh can confirm this ATLEAST (cos no1 else does anything more except for Sathguru’s, Guru Ghars and Sangaths seva ):

Come to Swindon, listen to the diwaan for 3 or 4 hours (depending on however long and obtain amolak/priceless Brahim Giane) and then have langar, listen to or ask a question and listen to answers and go home. I have been doing this for 2.5 years and I only ask Bhai Sahib a question on spiritual experences. THAT’S IT! NOTHING ELSE MORE TO IT! Is this all that happens kh@lsa singh? Are there people bowing down to him? Are there people lavishing money around? Are people touching his feet and he just touching there heads as people do there days? Does he give time out of questions and answers to ask ANYTHING U WANT? Please answers these questions. Sorry, I think u may have already answered this but when u cant catch the Guru Sahib’s teaching out on one thing, u swiftly move to the other without acknowledging that u have nothing else to say in response.

Everything is going in accordance with the rehit maryada I can assure u! its just that u haven’t opened urself up to atleast try to understand whats going on. what I also don’t understand is why does there have to be poison on your questions? Like ‘what are all these fits about’ and someone mocked ‘its people hyperventilating’. Why cant Sikhs just ask the question ‘what is this happening, please could you tell me as I am confused’. Instead so much poison and time has been wasted in such conversation…if u didn’t understand the explanation or failed to accept the explanation (although u haven’t experienced ‘shabad surt’ [which is the name of what its called] or done simran urself) then just say so and as munjoth singh has said many times ‘everyones entitled to there own opinion’ then this conversation could have been resolved time ago!

U have also stated ‘how can Bhai Sahib have so much control over his chela’ or something along them lines. it’s the teachings that Bhai Sahib explains (brahim giane) using Gurbani that makes people appreciate the route they have now been given by Waheguru. People only get experiences by doing simran and it’s the akath katha, brahim giane from Gurbani and NAAM SIMRAN that people love, is that too hard to believe? Why is that so hard to belive? Bhai Sahib stresses to accept 100% of Gurbani, do naam simran and there is so much rumours that a separate thread/topic has been made for this? the thing is bro, its like having a sweet. Lets say this sweet is nice to all the people that have tasted it…and made an effort to walk out there comfort zone and go along way to buy it and they taste it and love it. They then want other people to try it and some people claim that it is actually poison, but yet they haven’t tried it themselves. As stated above:

jin vaddiaaee thaerae naam kee thae ruthae mun maahi

Those who are blessed with the glorious greatness of Your Name - their minds are imbued with Your Love.

naanuk anmrith eaek hai dhoojaa anmrith naahi

O Nanak, there is only One Ambrosial Nectar; there is no other nectar at all.

naanuk anmrith munai maahi paaeeai gur purusaadh

O Nanak, the Ambrosial Nectar is obtained within the mind, by Guru's Grace.

thinuee peethaa rung sio jinu ko likhiaa aadh

They alone drink it in with love, who have such pre-ordained destiny. ||1||

That’s the same thing I feel here. The thing is, we are talking big things now. We are talking about the guru’s rehit maryada, we are talking about misleading people and how bad that is, we are talking about the Guru’s Teachings, we are talking about meeting Waheguru…the ULTIMATE! How can anyone do pakhand on these things bro? Guru Sahib explains to us what will happen to people who do pakhand of these things (as explained in Swindon by using Shabads from Gurbani)…tell me please…how can anyone with just a little bit of dharam (righteousness) do pakhand so much and sleep at night? The thing is…people say they are 100% sure about there route in meeting Waheguru while they are alive…but they have some little inkling in the back of there head. Just a little inkling on any doubt but I can assure u that I have absolute no doubts at all. For once in my life I have no questions and I am writing on this topic/thread thing not for me bro! munjoth singh and Swindon sangath member are not writing these because they can get some indirect phaal or something of that nature, it makes no difference to us.

On my final note, the only way ur doubts are going to get cleared is if u have them answered and come to Swindon and ask away. Not only that but furthermore if ur doubts don’t get cleared for whatever reason (if u don’t open urself up enough) then do simran:

salok.

Shalok:

tajahu si-aanap sur janhu simrahu har har raa-ay.

Give up your cleverness, good people - remember the Lord God, your King!

ayk aas har man rakhahu naanak dookh bharam bha-o jaa-ay. ||1||

Enshrine in your heart, your hopes in the One Lord. O Nanak, your pain, doubt and fear shall depart. ||1||

One last thing to point out...the brahim giane u obtain from Swindon, u will have to do the practical of it. When u learn how to drive a car, u can read all the theory but in the end u will have to learn how to drive. Same principle here, Guru Sahib tells us the jugti’s, explains the spiritual loves or stages of loves being felt by Bhaguts, Sants, Gurmukhs, etc AND MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE (as explained in Swindon) but we have to do the practial to experience what they experienced.

Take care

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh!!!

Ps. Sorry if I have offended anyone and kh@lsa veer I didn’t intend to be-little u in anyway just because u don’t do simran, but due to the nature of this converstion and discussion u have to note that what is being said all comes down to one thing…simran! Otherwise there can be no basis for discussion! Just don’t base major decisions on other peoples opinion because in the end, we all go alone (as stated in Gurbani and as expressed in Swindon):

asatpadee.

Ashtapadee:

jah maat pitaa sut meet na bhaa-ee.

Where there is no mother, father, children, friends or siblings

man oohaa naam tayrai sang sahaa-ee.

- O my mind, there, only the Naam, the Name of the Lord, shall be with you as your help and support.

And

chhootat nahee kot lakh baahee.

You shall not be saved by hundreds of thousands and millions of helping hands.

naam japat tah paar paraahee.

Chanting the Naam, you shall be lifted up and carried across.

But we have to work for this ‘stage’, we cant be given it on the plate! And thus Gurbani is saying do naam simran! Also for some people saying whether they do simran or not is a personal thing so hopefully u do, but if u do it gupt then atleast obtain the swaas swaas simran jugti, do abiyaas on that and then PRACTICALLY see what happens. Gurfateh!!!

[munjoth]

wrong

do you know what a "sant" is?

a sant is one with guru jee

you can only be one with guru jee one guru jee has blessed you with amrit

therefore your logic of sant before amrit does not make sense

i think before we start thinking about opening of dasam duaar we should think about basics of sikhi as in gurbani abyaas and naam abyaas

dasam duaar opening and receiving amrit through dasam duaar are 2 different things

yogis can open dasam duaar but because they have not had amrit from satguru jee they do not receive anhad shabad

amrit does not transform from sant to siphai

we are supposed to be BOTH. and after we take amrit we work on being both

this avastha is a lot harder to reach then you make out

24hr naam abyaas is no easy task

^^ hunji lets talk about this in more detail, ive covered the sant topic with gurbani reference above, a sant in not one with guru, but guru title is given to the punj payara so that dont make sense, i think your refering to vaheguru (satguru)

you can only be one with guru jee one guru jee has blessed you with amrit

therefore your logic of sant before amrit does not make sense

^^ these topics have been covered but as you have just joined lets discuss now, first we must recieve naam from the satguru and merge into saach, these are later stages.

think before we start thinking about opening of dasam duaar we should think about basics of sikhi as in gurbani abyaas and naam abyaas

^^ gurbani abhyaas? guru gurbani says: khojat khojat khoj veerchario, gurbani is saying do khoj and do veechar not reading gurbani over and over and not understand one bit of what ive said, yes naam abhyaas will take us out of this bhavsaagar, swaas swaas, swaas giraas and rom rom jugtis are required to do this.

dasam duaar opening and receiving amrit through dasam duaar are 2 different things

^^ yes we've discussed the 2 amrits, amrit russ that we recieve when we first go into sehaj and amrit that the punj give as well as darshan of saach, akath katha gyaan and attachement to shabad: So Gur Karo Jo Saach Dhrirh Akath Kathai Shabad Milae, guru nanak dev ji only accept that as the guru that can give you those gifts and the seeker will have to be able to give hte following: Dhun (body) Mun (mind) Dhan) (wealth of swaas) to the guru, but again this was discussed if u read thru the pages.

[swindonsangatmember]

To all Waheguru's apologies for the previous excited post. Please forgive me i am learning. However, i still stand by my previous posts regarding the constant spread of mis-information by various posters on this thread.

And a benti to all once again please dont write stuff like 'sant avastha is this and that' back it up with Gurbani as Munjoth Singh has been doing. We can all give our own manmatt views and opinions. Munjoth Singh has constantly referenced Guru Sahib for everything he has said. Now lets see the rest of you do that.

[S1ngh9876543210]

Wjkk Wjkf:

I have been reading the posts! Interesting points stated in this discussion! Firstly I would like to start by saying that I believe SWASS is the most precious! Bani is important aswell, but to all those brothers, sisters i would like to ask you when reading BANI where is your MIND! That’s the whole kheel! Are you able to control your mind, it is all good saying we read bani everyday recite japjee sahib path or sukhmani sahib path 100 times a day, but where is ur MAAN! What we are doing is exactly what a flamingo does: which is stands one leg with its eyes shut, but its mind is somewhere else, such as the fish that it is about to catch. This is how most of us are we have our eyes closed showing the world how religious we are but our mind even in the gurdwara is wondering places, which clearly means we are thieves in the gurdwara as we cannot even stop outside thoughts!.

Please use correct urself as there is no such thing as tarmele singhs, the gurdwara as stated is called Prabh milne ka chao, where katha is taught how to eliminate the thoughts by explain the kheel and stating what our mool is!.

Is all good saying that we do simran, but where is our mind? Again when you say WAHEGURU and in that time if you had a furnaa (thought) that is accounted for. For example I was given £1 to buy milk but instead brought a sweet, the person who sent to the shop for milk would be unhappy same principle applies to us inside if we go to a gurdwara and don’t learn anything and just come back with nothing and just more furnee, the swaas will be accounted for and with that u will be judged by the dram raaj. We need to learn how to save our swaas, this is where rom rom simran is done!

I can clearly see that Khalsa Jee mind seems like he cannot control his vichaar and has lots of questions, i would really recommend brothers and sisters who have doubts coming to Swindon or southall when there is a divan and ask as many questions as you like to, trust me i have had alot of questions that needed to be answered i put them forward to other so called baba but no result, but when i put questions to bhai sahib he answered them with reference to not as some people have said Bhai Seva Singh Tarmala but referred it to bani in the guru granth sahib with page numbers (close to Harvard referencing!lol). So i would urge brothers and sisters to come with a open mind and actually put forward ur questions!.

Thank you for your time, and hope to see brothers like khalsa jee putting his questions forward to Bhai Ajit Singh and hopefully u will be able to realise that sitting on the internet and making up stories is not right and their questions should be answered, EVERY divan bhai sahib cleary says if u have a question ask! If u still don’t get it u ask agin, again and again, until you don’t understand so please do not make stores up with out getting your facts rights, i see alot of people are saying they don’t follow people “like sheeps” but it seems they are as they are believing people that have stated that some singh in southall divan was told to leave because he asked to many questions, that is A LIE! So BEFORE accusing other people LOOK AT YOURSELF to make sure ur not the SHEEP!.

Thank You

Bhul Juk Mahf, as i am a leaner (SIKHNAA). I hope i did not offend anyone by putting this post!

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh.

[kh@ls@]

At the moment i'm not gonna say anything other than i'm a moorakh an I do no simran and have no jeevan or avasta.

I'm going to wait for gursikhs with more gyan than me to post on here. Just because there are 5 of you posting the same viewpoint doesn't make it right. Most of you have never even posted here before, yet you feel so compelled to defend the tarmala path. If something is true it doesn't need defending because no one will argue against it.

[swindonsangatmember]

kh@ls@ Jio - I am actually starting to warm to you. What sort of logic is that

'If something is true it doesn't need defending because no one will argue against it.' This is so funny that i'm not even going to entertain a reply to it. Listen why are you intent on wasting your swass without any foundation or knowldege of the subject you are talking about. All your views and opinions are hounding you into becoming a hater and we should all be loving!

I've decided to go down town with my replies to you as previous posts seem to have flown over your shinny white paag.

[singh_khalsa]

.

[munjoth]

t the moment i'm not gonna say anything other than i'm a moorakh an I do no simran and have no jeevan or avasta.

I'm going to wait for gursikhs with more gyan than me to post on here. Just because there are 5 of you posting the same viewpoint doesn't make it right. Most of you have never even posted here before, yet you feel so compelled to defend the tarmala path. If something is true it doesn't need defending because no one will argue against it.

^^

veer ji that is fine, if you would like we can meet and do simran together, as we are all brothers - it is best to go and meet vaheguru together: maal ghai mun nimral hoa, amritsaar theerath nahi sajan milae sajna sachaa shabad smai. we are both sajans. I have posted here b4, check my posts from 2005 - i was also after human guides, this sant that giani this baba and would argue that they are right. But they were not I felt i was close to the satguru yet i didnt even know where the satguru resided or how to go there and meet the satguru.

If something is true it doesn't need defending because no one will argue against it.

^^ This is not true, why didi Guru Gobind Singh Ji go and fight all the jungs? He had no enemies BUT because people had hate and jealousy over the parchaar of saach, they were amazed how guru ji abolished groups, how he taught pyaar and how he took all the sikhs from sikh to gurmukh level. I see your picture of sant jarnail singh, he was a defender of truth.

[immortal57]

read the following shabad and then tell me what "amrit" is and tell me that everyone has this "amrit" before taking amrit from panj pyare

This amrit is only received by great kirpa by very few gurmukhs

It is described when singhs in bhai sahibs times took amrit from panj pyare and immediately tasted amrit ras, as dasam duaar opened and amrit trickled down.

i am done deabting with you people. you dont need to debate, you are all brahmgyanis by munjoths reckoning. you are all doing none stop naam simran

gurbani abyaas is great, by doing abyaas thats where the meanings and veechar comes from

mwJ mhlw 3 ]

maajh mehalaa 3 ||

Maajh, Third Mehla:

AMimRq nwmu mMin vswey ]

a(n)mrith naam ma(n)n vasaaeae ||

Enshrining the Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Lord, in the mind,

haumY myrw sBu duKu gvwey ]

houmai maeraa sabh dhukh gavaaeae ||

all the pains of egotism, selfishness and conceit are eliminated.

AMimRq bwxI sdw slwhy AMimRiq AMimRqu pwvixAw ]1]

a(n)mrith baanee sadhaa salaahae a(n)mrith a(n)mrith paavaniaa ||1||

By continually praising the Ambrosial Bani of the Word, I obtain the Amrit, the Ambrosial Nectar. ||1||

hau vwrI jIau vwrI AMimRq bwxI mMin vswvixAw ]

ho vaaree jeeo vaaree a(n)mrith baanee ma(n)n vasaavaniaa ||

I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to those who enshrine the Ambrosial Bani of the Word within their minds.

AMimRq bwxI mMin vswey AMimRqu nwmu iDAwvixAw ]1] rhwau ]

a(n)mrith baanee ma(n)n vasaaeae a(n)mrith naam dhhiaavaniaa ||1|| rehaao ||

Enshrining the Ambrosial Bani in their minds, they meditate on the Ambrosial Naam. ||1||Pause||

AMimRqu bolY sdw muiK vYxI ] AMimRqu vyKY prKY sdw nYxI ]

a(n)mrith bolai sadhaa mukh vainee || a(n)mrith vaekhai parakhai sadhaa nainee ||

Those who continually chant the Ambrosial Words of Nectar see and behold this Amrit everywhere with their eyes.

AMimRq kQw khY sdw idnu rwqI Avrw AwiK sunwvixAw ]2]

a(n)mrith kathhaa kehai sadhaa dhin raathee avaraa aakh sunaavaniaa ||2||

They continually chant the Ambrosial Sermon day and night; chanting it, they cause others to hear it. ||2||

AMimRq rMig rqw ilv lwey ]

a(n)mrith ra(n)g rathaa liv laaeae ||

Imbued with the Ambrosial Love of the Lord, they lovingly focus their attention on Him.

AMimRqu gur prswdI pwey ]

a(n)mrith gur parasaadhee paaeae ||

By Guru's Grace, they receive this Amrit.

AMimRqu rsnw bolY idnu rwqI min qin AMimRqu pIAwvixAw ]3]

a(n)mrith rasanaa bolai dhin raathee man than a(n)mrith peeaavaniaa ||3||

They chant the Ambrosial Name with their tongues day and night; their minds and bodies are satisfied by this Amrit. ||3||

so ikCu krY ju iciq n hoeI ]

so kishh karai j chith n hoee ||

That which God does is beyond anyone's consciousness;

iqs dw hukmu myit n skY koeI ]

this dhaa hukam maett n sakai koee ||

no one can erase the Hukam of His Command.

hukmy vrqY AMimRq bwxI hukmy AMimRqu pIAwvixAw ]4]

hukamae varathai a(n)mrith baanee hukamae a(n)mrith peeaavaniaa ||4||

By His Command, the Ambrosial Bani of the Word prevails, and by His Command, we drink in the Amrit. ||4||

Ajb kMm krqy hir kyry ]

ajab ka(n)m karathae har kaerae ||

The actions of the Creator Lord are marvellous and wonderful.

iehu mnu BUlw jWdw Pyry ]

eihu man bhoolaa jaa(n)dhaa faerae ||

This mind is deluded, and goes around the wheel of reincarnation.

AMimRq bwxI isau icqu lwey AMimRq sbid vjwvixAw ]5]

a(n)mrith baanee sio chith laaeae a(n)mrith sabadh vajaavaniaa ||5||

Those who focus their consciousness on the Ambrosial Bani of the Word, hear the vibrations of the Ambrosial Word of the Shabad. ||5||

Koty Kry quDu Awip aupwey ]

khottae kharae thudhh aap oupaaeae ||

You Yourself created the counterfeit and the genuine.

quDu Awpy prKy lok sbwey ]

thudhh aapae parakhae lok sabaaeae ||

You Yourself appraise all people.

Kry priK KjwnY pwieih Koty Brim BulwvixAw ]6]

kharae parakh khajaanai paaeihi khottae bharam bhulaavaniaa ||6||

You appraise the true, and place them in Your Treasury; You consign the false to wander in delusion. ||6||

ikau kir vyKw ikau swlwhI ]

kio kar vaekhaa kio saalaahee ||

How can I behold You? How can I praise You?

gur prswdI sbid slwhI ]

gur parasaadhee sabadh salaahee ||

By Guru's Grace, I praise You through the Word of the Shabad.

qyry Bwxy ivic AMimRqu vsY qUM BwxY AMimRqu pIAwvixAw ]7]

thaerae bhaanae vich a(n)mrith vasai thoo bhaanai a(n)mrith peeaavaniaa ||7||

In Your Sweet Will, the Amrit is found; by Your Will, You inspire us to drink in this Amrit. ||7||

AMimRq sbdu AMimRq hir bwxI ]

a(n)mrith sabadh a(n)mrith har baanee ||

The Shabad is Amrit; the Lord's Bani is Amrit.

siqguir syivAY irdY smwxI ]

sathigur saeviai ridhai samaanee ||

Serving the True Guru, it permeates the heart.

nwnk AMimRq nwmu sdw suKdwqw pI AMimRqu sB BuK lih jwvixAw ]8]15]16]

naanak a(n)mrith naam sadhaa sukhadhaathaa pee a(n)mrith sabh bhukh lehi jaavaniaa ||8||15||16||

O Nanak, the Ambrosial Naam is forever the Giver of peace; drinking in this Amrit, all hunger is satisfied. ||8||15||16||