Tarmalaey ?

[singh_khalsa]

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[1singh1]

fateh too all, i'm really confused whats happening here...can some one explain! my basic understanding is to follow gurbani...and to jup his name.. waheguru

[munjoth]

Never heard of this Jatha but that does not meean anything. I have a question which was asked but never answered?

^^

Hunji veer ji lets discuss this point first, this isnt a jatha, a cult, a baba or something of the dera trend. This parchaar is of the akath katha that guru nanak dev ji started, then this akath katha gyan was passed onto guru angad dev ji, we read in gurbani: Suno Santo Katho Akath Kathni, guru amar daas ji set up 22 manajals of sants to then further spread this akath akatha, then the 4th guru gave hukum to all from sikh to brahamgyani to do this akath katha. this akath katha takes us to vaheguru, in gurbani it is referred to as: akath katha, amar katha, gooj katha, prem kahni.

Shaking? Tell me more about that?

^^ Hunji this has been discussed at some length in previous posts and on the other thread. In brief when we pass through the 5 elements this causes shaking and viraag as the mind is traveling back to

vaheguru ji, w

The lights you explained, quite worrying and confusing. You say that is when you hit one of the elements? You can go to the Radhaswamis and Noormelias. They can tell you to close your eyes, do gurmantar and at that time will press the temples on your head so you can see a light. Followers then state they have seen a light and hit an element.

^^ 100% the radoswamis do this, if they press the wrong ones, these are nerves in ur neck and forehead - and if the wrong ones are pressed you die. This is NOT in gurmat we do simran abhyaas through gurmanter, the lights do occur and if they do one should open his or her eyes as maya is trying to trick you into believing that this is 'prakash' of vaheguru.

Just to stress this is not a practice in gurmat, If I confused you then i apologize, I was making the sangat aware of this that we don't fall prey to those lights.

***EDITED PART ABOUT CHAKKARS REMOVED AS MY KHOJ/RESEARCHER AND GYAN ON THIS IS NOT 100% AND I DO NOT WISH TO MISGUIDE PEOPLE***

Again the colours come from the taats (5 elements) and you experience a further, i think, 7 colours that are present on the eye lashes - again this is NOT prakash and we should avoid this.

Saas Giraas is the method of bani which is most inline with Gurbani, obviously you have others like akhand jaap, apapa jaap, etc. However you practice this bani, is this with Vaikhree, Madhma, Parsanti and Para. If so again the Chakras will have to be aligned.

^^ Hunji we practice swaas giraas, swaas swaas and rom rom. At the start our minds do not focus so we practice with vaikhree bani, then as our mind focuses its madhma, then parsanti and then finally antarghat (internally). This causes sunn/sehaj, the anhad shabad becomes loud and clear and amrit begins to pour down.

With the Anhad Shabad, Which shabad do you actually hear, their are over 10 types of Anhad Shabad. The Panch Shabads can be catogorised as Tanti, Mridang, Ghanta, Ghata and Nafiri?

^^ Yes there are 5 shabads that you hear at devlok and 5, that are slightly different that you hear when you are prevesh in 10sm dwaar, I've only heard one not all 5 yet, more kamai to get all 5.

You speak of the Asthool Sareer (the body) and The Sukham Sareer being the Atma. However what about the Karan Sareer which is smaller then the sookham Sareer?

^^ There is a tukh in gurbani that says first is naam over that is sookam akaar and over that is astool, i dont recall it but karan sareer is not mentioned, please reference gurbani with this.

Our subtle body/Shuksham Sirar is made of 17 elements together- five pranas, five gyan indrai(senses), five karam indra(senses), Man(Mind) and Buddh(Intellect)

^^

the 5 elements: air water fire earth and akaash

5 gyan indra: sight,sound,smell,taste,touch - these are the 5 advisors to the mind vaheguru told us to take thre advice before doing karam, but kaal has put them to sleep, he put the mind to sleep as well

mind: in gurbani mind sits in the eyes, to see outside and was suppose to see inside but we dont see inside as our mind is sleep. the exact place the mind is located on the two black dots on our eyes.

one thing i will say is that one cannot be guaranteed an avastha of Brahmgian from any form of Jaap or Buddhi.

^^ Gurbani guru gives us a guarantee: aaht pehar ardaya POORAN BRAHAMGYAN - meditate for 24hrs and he will give you pooran brahamgyan BUT this is not done in this desh, you first must do an assan in nijghar and when it is time vaheguru will call you him self into sehaj ghar (where he resides) and then you will do this, not by doing 24hrs simran with your mind wandering everywhere.

[munjoth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

My contribution to this debate is not personal experience, but nevertheless from a person who got very close to those with the Tarmaala Jatha, and then pulled out after about a year. Main reasons he left was that although he liked the emphasis on Naam Simran - Singhs in the Jatha would congregate at weekends for 8 hours or more of straight Saas-Giraas Simran Abhiyaas - he was unnerved by being told that Nitnem and reading Bani is not important.

^^ Please could we have more specific details on the singhs that said this, as without bani we would not have this akath katha gyan nor would we understand how to do simran to meet vaheguru. It is stressed that reading bani like a parrot is deemed useless, if you read gurbani do not even understand one tuk then what have you learnt from your guru. That is why we must read guru bani like seeker and a researcher looking for the path back to god.

He also got disaffected with the constant promises that if you do Simran with us, then you'll be able to reach certain Avasthaa. E.g., you'll be able to read people's mind. One of the Tarmaala Singhs always told him that his soul went regularly to the moon and other planets. There was a general sense of boasting of what individuals had/were achieving through Simran. This he felt was leading into displaying Ridhiaa-Sidhiyaa, which Gursikhs must avoid/overcome. Also, he felt that Sikhi Kamaiye should be kept Gupt, rather than flashed about.

^^ again can we have the singhs names who are preeching this, as promising others gifts when only the satguru can would mean they are trying to be 'shreeks' (copies) of the guru, although people attend the sangat they may have hunkaar. The other point is they are not boasting when talking about avastaas as in gurus time all gursikhs use to meet and talk about there avaastas and the hurdles they encountered. They would then guide each other to higher planes of spirituality.

Ridhi Sidhis are something else, taking your sookham akaar out is not ridhi sidhis BUT can only be done when vaheguru give you hukum, benti if you could display those singhs name doing this

[Formula]

stop this grotesque charade.

[1singh1]

stop this grotesque charade.

looks more like a discussion mr singh

[kam1825]

If you read all the adyatmic granths and listen tot he katha by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindrawalae you will hear about the Sookham Sareer not being the atma as it can be split into 17 as stated. The Atma cant be split as it is parmatma. As stated in Bani and Vedant. This is the Karan Sarrer. It seems at an Adhiyatmic level the Tarmalaey lack but are more Naam Abhiyasees.

Where is lineage of this group, when did it start. Cant be that old as not mentioned in the Bharat Mat Darpan by Mahant Ganesha Ji.

Yes Gurbani can give one Brahamgian but not through just simran, without love and devotion their is notheing. There are 9 types of Bhagti and a tenth is regarded as Prema Bhagti.

Bani states that for one to go to Para from Vaikhari they have to do bhagti from Mudhma and Parsanti. There is no way you can go from one to the other. So how does your jatha do this and no other form of Sikhi does?

No one can guarentee anyone Brahmgian it is all in the will og God so for anyone from the group to say you can undertake a course and gain Brahmgian they are lying. That is like the fake promises by Gurmat Ram Raheem to his followers. All is in the will of God.

Bani says ' Sunniai Jog Jugat Tan Bhed' this in Taksali Arth and Sevapanth stteks both states this talks about the Chakras which one will become aware of through meditation. How is it that you lot do not need to see the chakras and can bypass them. Does that meen you do not need to go from the Aagiya Chakkar to the Ira Pingla Sukhmana which Bhagat Beni talks about in Bani.

As i said if you have Sharda in Bani then tell me about the Bani of Bhagat Beni when the Chakras Ira Pingla and Sukhmana are mentioned. if theyr are not important to the development of a sikh then why is is mentioned. You have taken certain quotes of Bani which you find apply to you what about this one. Also there are others about the Chakras i cn bring forth. This has nothing to do with Jog Mat as we use the Vaheguru Mantar whicle the Yogis use the air from the surya and chandra swas to heat and cool the fat around the Kundalini to gain access to the Kundalini so please do not even try to fob this off as a Yogic exercise.

[singh_khalsa]

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[singh_khalsa]

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[Jathedarni]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

This is to all of those who think by coming to Swindon you are joining a cult or being brainwashed.

Let me start by defining both of these words:

Brainwashed: 'systematically replace established ideas in person's mind by new ones.' Definition of systematic: ' methodical; according to system; deliberate.'

Cult: 'system of religious worship; devotion or homage to person or thing'

At the Swindon divans by no means are people joining a cult or being brainwashed. Bhai Ajit Singh ji preaches the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib and no other person or thing, therefore cannot be a cult. By no means does he deliberately replace established ideas in peoples mind it is entirely your choice whether you wish to attend and listen, if you don't like what you hear then you are not forced to return, therefore people cannot be brainwashed here.

For those that refer to the followers of Waheguru as Bhai Sahibs 'chele' I strongly suggest you choose your words carefully. If there is one thing Bhai Sahib has taught us, that is follow no man only follow Waheguru, therefore if you refer to us Waheguru's chele we have no problem, but let us make one thing clear we are not Bhai Sahibs chele merely his students who know not to follow a man.

Bhai Sahib teaches us that life is about loving and not about hatred, if that is a bad thing, then I am astonished. I note that people talk about the jugtis but living a life is a jugti. Everything you do has a jugti, for example, how to compromise with somebody is a jugti, how to do sangat is a jugti. In essence a jugti is a method of doing something to achieve a result. If there was no method then we would not acheive anything. So why all this emphasis on the way you say Waheguru, you have to use a certain method so your mind focuses, in order to achieve a result and the ultimate achievement is to meet Waheguru himself.

If you know how to meet Waheguru then share that with us as Bhai Sahib has always openly discussed this in the divans. For those who say this should remain gupt the Guru Granth Shaib openly shares all the jugtis, it's a case of finding them and working on them practically. Bhagat Kabir ji met Waheguru and told us through the Guru Granth Sahib how to meet him. During the times of our Gurus and up until the death of Baba Deep Singh these things were in the open. Until now nobody has tried to find the path. Bhai Sewa Singh Tarmala has brought these things into the open in order to give us the opportunity to meet Waheguru.

If this is something you want to achieve then I would personally recommend you attend the divans. For those who do not want to achieve this all I ask is you respect others feelings and do not misguide others who do want to walk on this path. Ultimately Waheguru is watching and listening to us all and he will decide what he wants for us.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh