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I think hitting within reason does work. Like with me, my Baba was an amazing guy, loved him to bits but we knew whilst playing, around the home etc there was a clear line that existed in our heads about what we could do and couldn't do. Pass it and you'd get a few smacks.

I honestly think that it was very effective and wouldn't have had it any other way (although probably didn't think it whilst getting smacked).

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i agree with 'miri piri'

especially the bit wer se sed wen parents give out punishment its nearly always ther karodh contributin to the punishment.

i was hit a few times wen i was younger, it just made me worse lol.

u cant hit kids its just mean, and everyone says well if ther your own kids it dont mater... no way, if i had kids i'd never hit them. if they played up alot id have to think of a suitable way of punishing them. if a kid does summit rong and u just give them a few slaps, then wat? u havent explained to the kid, wat was rong, chances are they'll just to it agen.

im sure ther are alternative ways of installing discipline without the need of violence.

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I was just saying that certain youth could do with a few licks when they are young and save themselves (and society) a whole lot of trouble.

No one is saying that you go for them like you were in a street fight.

The point about certain parents just using their kids as punch bags because of their frustration is valid and sadly often true, especially when parents may be going through drama in their own lives. This is WRONG but the rare slap when the kids are blatantly doing wrong never hurt anyone.

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I am also one who is not a pacifist. I grew up watching a father confronting any slight racist comment directly and willing to get physical, most often outnumbered by groups. At the same time, he was a man of peace. I have taken a similar no fear, no fearing approach… and have had more than my share of street fights. I have taken the same ‘fight’ to being a human citizen. To be clear, I don’t claim to be a pacifist. I am one who thinks those who put a righteous cause ahead of their own life today, are true Sikhs.

However, without judging any single view here, the general consensus is troubling. In this day and age, given the resources at hand and how the role of children has evolved, there should be little or no need to strike one’s own child.

Sadly, the prevalence of “beatings are good for you (in 2008!)” tuff correlates with a background of “don’t mess with my caste mindset”. There are large elements of punjabi culture masquerading as sikhi that remain uneducated and unrefined (I don’t speak of formal education and I don’t speak of any single post here). THIS BRAVADO MINDSET IS PERVASIVE AND COMPLETELY CONTRARY TO THE SIKHI CONCEPT OF COURAGE.

Again, to be clear, it is not troubling that any one poster here thinks it is appropriate to strike a child. My views are based largely on the mindsets of many I know personally. There may be some intelligent thought behind any single view (which I disagree with). There may be loving parents who have struck their children.

BUT it is troubling that SO MANY are of the view that striking a child is healthy given their social context (mostly west, 2nd 3rd generation). I can’t help but think that this is correlated to a mindset that draws upon punjabi rustic values to form their sikhi.

Someone may have turned out fine being “disciplined” with the odd beating. I do wonder however if many had a sustained psychological beating as much as they did physical. Your fear seems to be gone as an adult, but your scars become part of your makeup. Any physical pain is short lived, but the potential emotional scarring, in the heart of an innocent child who in today’s social context would have parents who need to resort to striking him/her …can be long lasting.

If a child misbehaves to the point that the parent sees no recourse but to hit; the parent should hit themselves first as punishment for their own failure. Preferably the parent adjusts their parenting instead.

If you are going to be a parent, please think hard about what type of discipline a sikhi view would endorse in current social contexts.

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I am also one who is not a pacifist. I grew up watching a father confronting any slight racist comment directly and willing to get physical, most often outnumbered by groups. At the same time, he was a man of peace. I have taken a similar no fear, no fearing approach… and have had more than my share of street fights. I have taken the same ‘fight’ to being a human citizen. To be clear, I don’t claim to be a pacifist. I am one who thinks those who put a righteous cause ahead of their own life today, are true Sikhs.

However, without judging any single view here, the general consensus is troubling. In this day and age, given the resources at hand and how the role of children has evolved, there should be little or no need to strike one’s own child.

Sadly, the prevalence of “beatings are good for you (in 2008!)” tuff correlates with a background of “don’t mess with my caste mindset”. There are large elements of punjabi culture masquerading as sikhi that remain uneducated and unrefined (I don’t speak of formal education and I don’t speak of any single post here). THIS BRAVADO MINDSET IS PERVASIVE AND COMPLETELY CONTRARY TO THE SIKHI CONCEPT OF COURAGE.

Again, to be clear, it is not troubling that any one poster here thinks it is appropriate to strike a child. My views are based largely on the mindsets of many I know personally. There may be some intelligent thought behind any single view (which I disagree with). There may be loving parents who have struck their children.

BUT it is troubling that SO MANY are of the view that striking a child is healthy given their social context (mostly west, 2nd 3rd generation). I can’t help but think that this is correlated to a mindset that draws upon punjabi rustic values to form their sikhi.

Someone may have turned out fine being “disciplined” with the odd beating. I do wonder however if many had a sustained psychological beating as much as they did physical. Your fear seems to be gone as an adult, but your scars become part of your makeup. Any physical pain is short lived, but the potential emotional scarring, in the heart of an innocent child who in today’s social context would have parents who need to resort to striking him/her …can be long lasting.

If a child misbehaves to the point that the parent sees no recourse but to hit; the parent should hit themselves first as punishment for their own failure. Preferably the parent adjusts their parenting instead.

If you are going to be a parent, please think hard about what type of discipline a sikhi view would endorse in current social contexts.

A very valid post. Just to clarify my position. I am not promoting: Just saying that it has been used effectively in the past but the point about it possibly not being a valid method in today's generation especially in the west is very valid.

Plus I DO NOT ADVOCATE this approach with girls AT ALL...they may grow up to be strippers as revenge. Just those small fearless little terrors that occasionally turn up....bless them

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...

Someone may have turned out fine being “disciplined” with the odd beating. I do wonder however if many had a sustained psychological beating as much as they did physical. Your fear seems to be gone as an adult, but your scars become part of your makeup. Any physical pain is short lived, but the potential emotional scarring, in the heart of an innocent child who in today’s social context would have parents who need to resort to striking him/her …can be long lasting.

If a child misbehaves to the point that the parent sees no recourse but to hit; the parent should hit themselves first as punishment for their own failure. Preferably the parent adjusts their parenting instead.

If you are going to be a parent, please think hard about what type of discipline a sikhi view would endorse in current social contexts.

Very well said.

If a child can behave because it is the right thing to do, that child knows more about good behaviour than a child who behaves in order to avoid a punishment.

Dalsingh 101 There is a fine line between permissive parenting and beatings.

Here are some parenting style that are very commonly use

Authoritarian

Authoritarian parents always try to be in control and exert their control on the children. These parents set strict rules to try to keep order, and they usually do this without much expression of warmth and affection. They attempt to set strict standards of conduct and are usually very critical of children for not meeting those standards. They tell children what to do, they try to make them obey and they usually do not provide children with choices or options.

Authoritarian parents don't explain why they want their children to do things. If a child questions a rule or command, the parent might answer, "Because I said so." Parents tend to focus on bad behavior, rather than positive behavior, and children are scolded or punished, often harshly, for not following the rules.

Children with authoritarian parents usually do not learn to think for themselves and understand why the parent is requiring certain behaviors.

Permissive

Permissive parents give up most control to their children. Parents make few, if any, rules, and the rules that they make are usually not consistently enforced. They don't want to be tied down to routines. They want their children to feel free. They do not set clear boundaries or expectations for their children's behavior and tend to accept in a warm and loving way, however the child behaves.

Permissive parents give children as many choices as possible, even when the child is not capable of making good choices. They tend to accept a child's behavior, good or bad, and make no comment about whether it is beneficial or not. They may feel unable to change misbehavior, or they choose not to get involved.

Democratic Or Authoritative

Democratic parents help children learn to be responsible for themselves and to think about the consequences of their behavior. Parents do this by providing clear, reasonable expectations for their children and explanations for why they expect their children to behave in a particular manner. They monitor their children's behavior to make sure that they follow through on rules and expectations. They do this in a warm and loving manner. They often, "try to catch their children being good" and reinforcing the good behavior, rather than focusing on the bad.

For example, a child who leaves her toys on a staircase may be told not to do this because, "Someone could trip on them and get hurt and the toy might be damaged." As children mature, parents involve children in making rules and doing chores: "Who will mop the kitchen floor, and who will carry out the trash?"

Parents who have a democratic style give choices based on a child's ability. For a toddler, the choice may be "red shirt or striped shirt?" For an older child, the choice might be "apple, orange or banana?" Parents guide children's behavior by teaching, not punishing. "You threw your truck at Mindy. That hurt her. We're putting your truck away until you can play with it safely."

(http://pediatrics.about.com/od/infantparentingtips/a/04_pntg_styles.htm)

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there's a diff between beatin ur kids for the sake of beatin them... n givin em a good backhand when they dun sumtin dumb/somethin they kno they weren't supposed to do...

i've grown up wit all diff types of people.. n from my experience the ones that din get disciplined at the ones that turn out the worst, the brattiest, the most corrupt...

discipline is required... i'm glad i was givin a good tthappar ever now n then (when i dun sumtin to deserve it)... kept me grounded...

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there's a diff between beatin ur kids for the sake of beatin them... n givin em a good backhand when they dun sumtin dumb/somethin they kno they weren't supposed to do...

i've grown up wit all diff types of people.. n from my experience the ones that din get disciplined at the ones that turn out the worst, the brattiest, the most corrupt...

discipline is required... i'm glad i was givin a good tthappar ever now n then (when i dun sumtin to deserve it)... kept me grounded...

That is the side most people ignore. The self centredness which often results when parents are too permissive. You meet people like that all the time....people who view the world entirely from the perspective of their own needs because the point about responsibility or taking others in consideration has never been sufficiently driven home with them. They can turn out to be as damaged as any abused child and continue to throw "wobblies" when they don't get their way in adulthood. You can see this in many spoilt Sikh guys and princesses like that, who being made to feel "special" act like complete jerks when grown up.

With hindsight given the hypothetical option of turning out like them because I never got a slap and was pampered...I am damn glad i got some (when deserved). But we have to always remember the point that sometimes parents take out their frustration on easy targets when the going is tough. Like the hard pressures of newly arrived immigrants who have to take undesirable jobs in their new host society and face racism, low wages and long hours and whatnot. If the parent is depressed this also makes it more likely that beats will be given for no good reason. So we do have to clearly distinguish between the two very different types of "beats"

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