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Sakhi Of The Raja And Anoop Kaur


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Is there any other translation online of this story?

Are the stanzas before the ones discussed here, also use reference to Guru Gobind Singh jee? That might indicate whether This is about Guru jee.

From what I can understand I dont think this is about guru Gobind Singh jee. It is probably something that did not happen, but a story is being told to convey a message. Firstly I dont think Guru jee ever claimed he was a raja? Did Guru jee rule anywhere? If guru jee was a raja then it seems that the first Khalsa Raj came before Baba Banda Singh jee Bahadur.

If the raja was Guru Gobind Singh jee, the story would more likely to have been in Bachittar Natak. It also seems that the story is not written in first person. While in Bachittar Natak we see shabads that are... Dekhan ayoo Jagat Tamasha. And also: Kahayoo parbuu so phakh hoo.

I could not understand why the raja is talking and then it says guru jee is saying something (this was right at the end of the composition). Maybe that is an indication that the Raja and Guru jee are different people. Meybe Guru jee is talking in first person and the Raja is therefore depicted as someone else.

Another Indication that the raja was not Guru jee was when the raja puts on a religious garb.

These are the conclusions I have drawn from someones translations. The thing is your opinions can easily change depending on the translation. For example the translator feels sure the raja is guru Gobind Singh jee, so his translation of each line, will be prejudiced by this fact.

Your right veer V jee. The easy part is to argue with others that they are speaking kufar etc but when it comes to discussing the shabads, we find a lack of debate. Or the statement that we do not have the kamaee. Khoj and veechar (Being a Sikh) seems to be overshadowed by other words. (Sikhi Sikhia gur veechar). I feel that someone who did khoj like Prof Sahib Singh jee is needed with the dasam granth. Translations of the Dasam Granth lack any notion or concepts of grammar. They all like they copied each other and changed a few words around here and there, like the English Translations of the Guru Granth Sahib jee are.

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V, what's the problem with the Sakhi - Guru Ji wrote it to teach us something, they aren't talking about themselves. If you read the whole Bani you'lll understand......

If a Moorakh like me can understand the moral of the sakhi that Guru Ji wrote, then anyone can.

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lol sado's
THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO DISCUSS DASAM GRANTH.

...

I personally find a few weaknesses, as to why I doubt it's real.

I doubt that the SAKHI is real. I'm not talking about the entire Dasam Granth. I didn’t want to get into the Dasam Granth discussion. I'm talking out the Sakhi in question.

For those who don't believe the Raja in the sakhi is Guru Gobind Singh -

At Anandpur, numerous Sikhs would come to pay a visit, and

would get their wishes fulfilled, and would return to their homes happily. (4)

Once a wife of rich man visited the town, and on seeing the Raja of the town, got extremely fascinated and charmed on seeing him.(5)

Who would this Raja of Anandpur be, whom Sikhs would come, pay a visit and get their wishes fulfilled?

From tale 23 –

In the following morning, all got up, and the Raja came to the Assemblage of his people (1)

The lady's passions had been cooled down; and only in her rage exhibited the shoes and the silk dress to the people. (2)

The GURU in his assemblage declared to his followers that his shoes and silk dress had been stolen. He also stated that if any of his Sikh, who would find out the thief, he would be liberated from the cycle of repeated births and deaths (3)

When the Sikhs heard the words uttered by the Guru, they revealed the secret of the lady to all the assemblage. (4)

TheRaja then commanded to bring the thief before him, and also his shoes and the silk dress. But the real thief should not be frightened in any way, to be brought in a respectful way. (6)

(When the lady was brought there) The Rajas asked her why she had taken his shoes and the silken dress. The one who commits theft, she should know how he is to be dealt with. He was excusing her excesses committed, being a lady; otherwise for such a crime the penalty was death. (7)

Notice how "Raja" and "Guru" is used synonymous?

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V, that's the problem with translations - read the original (or listen to Katha) and note the difference. I don't know if thsi Bani is on-line though, maybe someone can post a link if it is.

In the Gurmukhi, there is no doubt that Guru Ji is narrating a story, not talking about themselves. Also bear in mind that disciples of any guru are called shish/sikh. But this is irrelevant in this case, as explained above.

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You definitely have a point that the Gurmukhi version can differ from the translation.

Have you personally read the gurmukhi version, or are you assuming that there is no doubt that Guru Ji is talking about someone else?

Also it’s quite a coincidence that (i) it’s a Raja from Anandpur (ii) who was also considered to be a GURU by the citizens (no, most people didn’t call the RAJA of the village for a GURU. (iii) who fulfilled everyone’s desires.

Quite a coincidence.

Also, if you do have the Punjabi version, please do post it here :@

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  • 12 years later...
Guest Pirthipal Singh

Its funny, how people live in the cyberspace as sikh cyber warrior. Its the blind judging the blind without understanding what EGO really is. Mostly people cannot understand ego, perhaps only talking about it from what they've read. Most parcharaks, baba, jatherdars, so called endorsed gursikh within the sikh fold under the symptoms of the ego. You can only know what it is if your mind has stood still for a long period of time. This composition is very likely written by an unenlightened mind and the character of the guru portrayed in this story is also extremely unenlightened. Buddha said if you believe, it means you don't know and if you know, then you don't have to believe anymore. The theme of guru granth sahib especially from baba nanak and kabir sahib and the theme of some of the composition in dasam granth are incompatible.

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23 hours ago, Guest Pirthipal Singh said:

You can only know what it is if your mind has stood still for a long period of time. This composition is very likely written by an unenlightened mind and the character of the guru portrayed in this story is also extremely unenlightened. Buddha said if you believe, it means you don't know and if you know, then you don't have to believe anymore. The theme of guru granth sahib especially from baba nanak and kabir sahib and the theme of some of the composition in dasam granth are incompatible.

I totally disagree. Dasam Granth is different from SGGS ji for sure, with a heavier focus on social matters, literature, psychology, language, politics, culture, Indic mythology etc. etc. Repurposing traditional narratives to suit contemporary Sikh needs has also been done.   

If Guru ji used narratives to explain things to Sikhs, it's on you to try and grasp the underlying themes and points of the narratives, not discard them because your own preconceptions and mental conditioning go against this. 

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