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what people dont understand is that the hall belongs to the gurdwara and was made by money that sangat gave to Guru ji, is this the type of thing that Guru ji would want happening in his hall. This is the principle its a total piss take and disrespect. Its the Gurus hall!!!

we gonna have slags dancing half naked , meat served , people drunk etc all in gurus property!

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Bets thing is to call them and just tell them that the Sikhs won't allow such an event to take place in the name of Vaisakhi, especially in Gurudwara hall, this a big shame!

I suggest we go and protest outside the hall on the day! These stupid people, who act like chamche need to be shown, the principles behind Vaisakhi and its true meaning! :D

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Bets thing is to call them and just tell them that the Sikhs won't allow such an event to take place in the name of Vaisakhi, especially in Gurudwara hall, this a big shame!

I suggest we go and protest outside the hall on the day! These stupid people, who act like chamche need to be shown, the principles behind Vaisakhi and its true meaning! :D

Ofcourse, the Philosophy of Guru Nanak: Protests.

Please read above for the "true meaning" of Vaisakhi

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Bets thing is to call them and just tell them that the Sikhs won't allow such an event to take place in the name of Vaisakhi, especially in Gurudwara hall, this a big shame!

I suggest we go and protest outside the hall on the day! These stupid people, who act like chamche need to be shown, the principles behind Vaisakhi and its true meaning! :D

If it’s that painful to think about then ask Maharaj for guidance and the strength, capability and strategy to effectively tackle the WHOLE problem. Not just the one isolated party, save society in general from ruining themselves. A momentary uprising is only short lived for one specific hyped incident and is easily forgotten once everyone gets back to their normal lives. This is the way the present protest culture work and no doubt this will happen here too. If we are only willing to make a selective stand for Sikhi but are not willing to devote our daily lives to a Sikh jeevan then how will we “inspire” anyone? This is why eventually we always end up in a “tu tu main main stand off" between Sikhs who always form 2 sides, the protestors and the non protestors and no doubt both sides think they are right.

Like someone mentioned above this happens around the country, whether the hall is owned by a Prabhandak committee or not these vasakhi parties are almost as common as Xmas parties. It’s blantly obvious that Sikh/Punjabi society in general are going through an unintentional phase of inappropriate behaviour and are on a complete deviation from the real reni beni that Guru Ji told us about. But is this because they are struggling to see real life examples of the reni beni that Guru Ji told us about??

I am not professing to be any sant or holier than thou. I am just expressing my own inner view on the above situation.

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Bets thing is to call them and just tell them that the Sikhs won't allow such an event to take place in the name of Vaisakhi, especially in Gurudwara hall, this a big shame!

I suggest we go and protest outside the hall on the day! These stupid people, who act like chamche need to be shown, the principles behind Vaisakhi and its true meaning! :D

If it’s that painful to think about then ask Maharaj for guidance and the strength, capability and strategy to effectively tackle the WHOLE problem. Not just the one isolated party, save society in general from ruining themselves. A momentary uprising is only short lived for one specific hyped incident and is easily forgotten once everyone gets back to their normal lives. This is the way the present protest culture work and no doubt this will happen here too. If we are only willing to make a selective stand for Sikhi but are not willing to devote our daily lives to a Sikh jeevan then how will we “inspire” anyone? This is why eventually we always end up in a “tu tu main main stand off" between Sikhs who always form 2 sides, the protestors and the non protestors and no doubt both sides think they are right.

Like someone mentioned above this happens around the country, whether the hall is owned by a Prabhandak committee or not these vasakhi parties are almost as common as Xmas parties. It’s blantly obvious that Sikh/Punjabi society in general are going through an unintentional phase of inappropriate behaviour and are on a complete deviation from the real reni beni that Guru Ji told us about. But is this because they are struggling to see real life examples of the reni beni that Guru Ji told us about??

I am not professing to be any sant or holier than thou. I am just expressing my own inner view on the above situation.

I put it down to lack of teaching of gurbani and conveying the true message, which then ultimately has an impact on the youth and elder alike. They are amalgamating punjabi culture with Sikhi and therefore these people have a perception/view that all is one, but it isnt and do these sort of events, thinking its ok, put it down to lack of sikh education.

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I put it down to lack of teaching of gurbani and conveying the true message, which then ultimately has an impact on the youth and elder alike. They are amalgamating punjabi culture with Sikhi and therefore these people have a perception/view that all is one, but it isnt and do these sort of events, thinking its ok, put it down to lack of sikh education.

Until we amalgamate into the problem and realize that we collectively form the problem too then making excuses of lack of education will just carry on. There’s no them and us in this, we all form the problem and we need to address that

Parchaar is a waste of time if not implemented in to ones jeevan. In this day of visual media tools we cannot say there is not enough parchaar, with Maharaj’s blessings we have IT tools, videos, animations, books, radio, tv. Surly we are now exhausting the excuses of lack of parchaar. In my view there is a lack of jeevan, a lack of faith and hypocrisy which we all practice. People don’t see the reni beni of Sikhi in us, they see through us.

In the puratan days the Singhs sorted their own jeevans out before sorting other peoples jeevans out. That's why they had respect and society paid attention to their decisions.

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I put it down to lack of teaching of gurbani and conveying the true message, which then ultimately has an impact on the youth and elder alike. They are amalgamating punjabi culture with Sikhi and therefore these people have a perception/view that all is one, but it isnt and do these sort of events, thinking its ok, put it down to lack of sikh education.

Until we amalgamate into the problem and realize that we collectively form the problem too then making excuses of lack of education will just carry on. There’s no them and us in this, we all form the problem and we need to address that

Parchaar is a waste of time if not implemented in to ones jeevan. In this day of visual media tools we cannot say there is not enough parchaar, with Maharaj’s blessings we have IT tools, videos, animations, books, radio, tv. Surly we are now exhausting the excuses of lack of parchaar. In my view there is a lack of jeevan, a lack of faith and hypocrisy which we all practice. People don’t see the reni beni of Sikhi in us, they see through us.

In the puratan days the Singhs sorted their own jeevans out before sorting other peoples jeevans out. That's why they had respect and society paid attention to their decisions.

Your contradicting yourself there about them and us. If you look at it in reality, lack of education isnt an excuse, its reality. There are many parents out there, who are not bothered about the teachings of Guru ji and hence, they dont deliver any thing to their children. How do you get that faith and how to you get the jeevan? Well you do it by reading Gurbani, going to Gurdwara and keeping good sangat, its all about knowledge and being educated through Gurbani, if one does do this at least they are aware that doing these things are manmat. I am not a saint or anything high, but coming to this forum, reading history and katha and sakhiya, I know that this thing is somewhat incorrect to our faith and beliefs, how did I know this? Well by educating myself by learning through Sikh resources such as Sikhsangat, allaboutsikhs, sikhawareness and other miscellaneous sikh resources and also most importantly taught and educated by my orthodox amritdhari parents..

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Your contradicting yourself there about them and us. If you look at it in reality, lack of education isnt an excuse, its reality. There are many parents out there, who are not bothered about the teachings of Guru ji and hence, they dont deliver any thing to their children. How do you get that faith and how to you get the jeevan? Well you do it by reading Gurbani, going to Gurdwara and keeping good sangat, its all about knowledge and being educated through Gurbani, if one does do this at least they are aware that doing these things are manmat. I am not a saint or anything high, but coming to this forum, reading history and katha and sakhiya, I know that this thing is somewhat incorrect to our faith and beliefs, how did I know this? Well by educating myself by learning through Sikh resources such as Sikhsangat, allaboutsikhs, sikhawareness and other miscellaneous sikh resources and also most importantly taught and educated by my orthodox amritdhari parents..

True. But ultimately without the desire to live the jeevan why would someone even bother taking the responsibility in educating their children about a Sikh jeevan. What would be the motive?

There's nothing more powerful than real life models, living models, living breathing examples of Sikhi. People who visibly commit themselves to Sikhi every living breathing second of the day, not just on one-off rehansabhis or super samagam or beadbi protests. Without those mahan sewaks who are there hoovering the Gurdwara floors, cleaning the toilets, preparing the langer, performing the daily Asa di war, carrying out sukhasan and parkash of Guru Ji's Saroop, i.e. showing sangat what Sikhi is really about in daily practical terms then what example do people have to aspire to? Just stories and sakhis, which after a prolonged period of time wear off and become imaginary to the person who looks at a Sikh jeevan from a text book, almost fictional, perspective.

The mediums to express Sikhi are people like you and me. Why else did Maharaj give his roop to the Khalsa? But we should seriously address why people don’t see Maharaj’s roop in an Amritdhari Sikh today, is it because of people’s general lack of education or is it because we (Amritdharis) are failing in collectively expressing Sikhi. Shouldn’t we all take responsibility that people from the community are more interested in drinking alcohol on vasakhi and not amrit? Should we question ourselves and see why are we failing our community and not passing the buck on to others.

If you really see a protest as a resolve, then take it to the end. There’s no point in just stopping the one party and not bothering to inspire and guide those party goers against the hazards of the party lifestyle. Sure we can stop the one vasakhi party, but guaranteed every other week each person will be attending another party, maybe in the same ramgharia hall too. As a Sikh of the Guru we should not leave any loose end, any clutter or mess for others to pick up because it is our mess, it is our sewa to see things through to the end. You don’t leave the sink of the Gurdwara kitchen with a pile of dirty thaals, you finish the sewa before you go home. Protesting sometimes gives a false sense of victory, just because the day comes to an end does not mean any situation is resolved in the long term.

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Oh wicked. Whos going?

Okay, serious note, what concerns me is the below :

things that upset me.. in a RAMGARHIA HAL...

Is this Ramgharia Gurdwara hall or is it named Ramgharia Hall? Clarification anyone?

Other than that, Sikhs dont own Vaisakhi. We dont own any particular day in history to claim it. And as someone already said, Vaisakhi was around long before Guru Gobind Singh Jee chose to create the Khalsa on that day. So dont worry about what others are doing. Concentrate on yourselves and what you will be doing that day.

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Your contradicting yourself there about them and us. If you look at it in reality, lack of education isnt an excuse, its reality. There are many parents out there, who are not bothered about the teachings of Guru ji and hence, they dont deliver any thing to their children. How do you get that faith and how to you get the jeevan? Well you do it by reading Gurbani, going to Gurdwara and keeping good sangat, its all about knowledge and being educated through Gurbani, if one does do this at least they are aware that doing these things are manmat. I am not a saint or anything high, but coming to this forum, reading history and katha and sakhiya, I know that this thing is somewhat incorrect to our faith and beliefs, how did I know this? Well by educating myself by learning through Sikh resources such as Sikhsangat, allaboutsikhs, sikhawareness and other miscellaneous sikh resources and also most importantly taught and educated by my orthodox amritdhari parents..

True. But ultimately without the desire to live the jeevan why would someone even bother taking the responsibility in educating their children about a Sikh jeevan. What would be the motive?

There's nothing more powerful than real life models, living models, living breathing examples of Sikhi. People who visibly commit themselves to Sikhi every living breathing second of the day, not just on one-off rehansabhis or super samagam or beadbi protests. Without those mahan sewaks who are there hoovering the Gurdwara floors, cleaning the toilets, preparing the langer, performing the daily Asa di war, carrying out sukhasan and parkash of Guru Ji's Saroop, i.e. showing sangat what Sikhi is really about in daily practical terms then what example do people have to aspire to? Just stories and sakhis, which after a prolonged period of time wear off and become imaginary to the person who looks at a Sikh jeevan from a text book, almost fictional, perspective.

The mediums to express Sikhi are people like you and me. Why else did Maharaj give his roop to the Khalsa? But we should seriously address why people don’t see Maharaj’s roop in an Amritdhari Sikh today, is it because of people’s general lack of education or is it because we (Amritdharis) are failing in collectively expressing Sikhi. Shouldn’t we all take responsibility that people from the community are more interested in drinking alcohol on vasakhi and not amrit? Should we question ourselves and see why are we failing our community and not passing the buck on to others.

If you really see a protest as a resolve, then take it to the end. There’s no point in just stopping the one party and not bothering to inspire and guide those party goers against the hazards of the party lifestyle. Sure we can stop the one vasakhi party, but guaranteed every other week each person will be attending another party, maybe in the same ramgharia hall too. As a Sikh of the Guru we should not leave any loose end, any clutter or mess for others to pick up because it is our mess, it is our sewa to see things through to the end. You don’t leave the sink of the Gurdwara kitchen with a pile of dirty thaals, you finish the sewa before you go home. Protesting sometimes gives a false sense of victory, just because the day comes to an end does not mean any situation is resolved in the long term.

Why are we failing? Why do I feel sometimes Sikhi isnt right?

My experience of this is due to the leaders we have in place. These leaders are appearing in lions clothing but sheeps inside, they are the chamche who quarrel over petty things like calendar etc, and give the impression to me who is a youth to them, that Sikhi seems to be just about who does this and that! However because I have got right mind to come to this forum and learn from resources and take those resources and think about it deeply, I come to the conclusion that these leaders and others who do something evil or bad are chamche and there is nothing behind, but just the appearance.

On the other hand, one day I came to have langar, and be it family, these couple had just taken amrit, and they didn't talk to my family before taking amrit, and even now they don't, event hough my parents and I greet them. The fact is I was sitting there in the langar hall waiting to be served a second time around. Bhai Sahib who has taken amrit and came off his honourable duty and was sitting right in front of me, his wife just served him and not me or the other person next to me, who happened to a friend, I certainly felt tears, why has this happened, I had thought that in langar, sangat is sangat, and everyone is equal, my heart disheartened. I felt even though they have had amrit, they are still learning, they had failed Guru Nanak Dev Ji's first test, which was serve all, be kind and serve everyone equally. Can this be avoided by reading Gurbani and Katha/Sakhiyah? I strongly think, Yes!

This is the main reason we go to the Gurdwara, is to learn and listen to the katha and Gurbani and actually take these things in mind and practise, but in this case it didn't happen.

This is the main reason that people don't see roop of maharaj.

which brings me to the next question:

Sikhi is just like a degree? Yes? or No?

Well, when we study for a degree, we hope to be both theoretical and practical, we first learn things theoretically and the progress to implement things practically. This can be said the same thing about Sikhi, you research, you read Gurbani and you listen to kirtan, katha and keep good sangat, once you have the thirst for Sikhi, you come in to the practical side of things and you retain these things because of theoretical concepts about Sikhi and then with Guru jis blessing and the pyar you have from him, by reading in deeply and researching you feel Bairag (only certain individuals do who have attained pyar, not everyone), and these makes us do the right thing, a state of mind which tells us to think practically, how can we better ourselves, this gives you the inspiration and thoughts that Sikhi isnt simple as A,B and C, and then when you have taken amrit you are librated? No? this is the first step of the degree, we have to pass tests (himthian) given by Guru ji or any sant, bhagats and sangat too and even then we have to keep up to date with rehat and abide by these in order to become full GurSikh.

Is protesting the answer?

I agree not a long term future, maybe just for short term. These issues can only be resolved, if we all kept in line with Sikhi. The only way we can learn to resolve these is to convey the truth, the truth behind Sikhi. Preaching to others, whether they listen or not is another story. But again, this may not stop the beadbi we see. So how do we cope with these things? Well if every Gursikh abided by the rules of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, it would have been satyug in the mind of those Gursikhs, but its not entirely like this because even majority of Amritdhari Sikhs fall in to the same pot, they have selective hearing and selective doing, if these people stop this then others will follow, this is one good resolution, then also if they preached it would have more impact because they follow the rules themselves. As an example, you see the leaders, who dont practise what they preach, hence we have the failings in the community we have at the present moment.

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