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My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?


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i believe you can take the message/teachings from other faiths and apply them to betters one own Sikhi...but i have a question which i know no one here is a Christian but maybe someone can help

When on the cross, Jesus Christ said 'My God, Why hast thou forsaken me'...does anyone have a deeper appreciation to what Jesus meant when he said this?

The reason i ask is, somethings unless understood in the context in which they were said, can be misunderstood (this includes Gurbani too).

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"Why hast thou forsaken me" is i belive the translation of King James i may be wrong

I belive its to do with the translations different indivduals translate scriptures in different ways. Same goes for Gurbani.

And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a loud voice and said, Eli, Eli, lmana shabachthani! which means, My God, my God, for this I was kept!- Matthew 27:46, translated by George Lamsa

And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice and said, "God, God, why have you spared me?" - Matthew 27:46, translated by LWM

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HEre is something similar that may be of interest: from another Discusison board

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According to the Christian Teachings, the normal collective state of humanity is one of 'orgininal sin'. Sin is a word that has been greatly misunderstood and misinterpreted. Literally translated from the ancient Greek in which the New Testament was written, to sin means to miss the mark, as an archer who misses the target, so to sin means to miss the point of Human Existence.

It means to live unskillfully, blindly, and thus to suffer and cause suffering. Again, the term, stripped of its cultural baggage and misinterpretations, points to the dysfunction inherent in the human condition.

However, most people belonging to Semetic religions today will consider themselves 'right' and others 'wrong - or sinful' who not infrequently saw themselves in the past as killing you for thinking or being as such, and today to judge you as a sinner or non-believe confined to hell.

Additionally, in survey on Continental United States a majority Semetic dominated country, people were asked about the MIS TRANSLATION of 'The world coming to an end' as prescribed in the Christian Bible.

MILLIONS of people as a result of this MISTRANSLATIOn believe in the coming of the end of the world.

The actual translation from its original greek-latin source means as stated by Jesus "I will be with you, even at the coming of the new age". NOT (I will be with you, even at the END of the world".

~ THE POWER OF MISTRANSLATION

I am by no means implying that people are not allowed to read translations, in fact it is important to provide translations to the masses. However, INTERPRET them with caution. People will use MISTRANSLATIONS (Yes they exist in the Shabad Guru) to sway your opinion, and your own understanding will be highly degraded.

I suggest read the Shabad Guru in both forms, attempt to learn the original form which has both Meaning, and Meditative unique qualities which are not found in translations.

However, translations are necessary to reach the new world, such as spanish (the most spoken language in the world), there is a Finish Translation recently created.

These are Useful, and are necessary for a persons spiritual development. However, they need not be used to base arguments or decisions upon, this may lead to false belief.

The original text should be studied, and the original un tainted interpretations revealed so that we do not create a calamity of Judgement and mis-label humanity for generations to come.

Regards,

“Be inspired, appreciate your life, and love others as you find divinity within them, Blessings."

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i believe you can take the message/teachings from other faiths and apply them to betters one own Sikhi...but i have a question which i know no one here is a Christian but maybe someone can help

When on the cross, Jesus Christ said 'My God, Why hast thou forsaken me'...does anyone have a deeper appreciation to what Jesus meant when he said this?

The reason i ask is, somethings unless understood in the context in which they were said, can be misunderstood (this includes Gurbani too).

Basically it meant why didn't God with all his powers deliver Jesus (his son) from the cross. Especially after God had revealed himself to humanity through him.

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i believe you can take the message/teachings from other faiths and apply them to betters one own Sikhi...but i have a question which i know no one here is a Christian but maybe someone can help

When on the cross, Jesus Christ said 'My God, Why hast thou forsaken me'...does anyone have a deeper appreciation to what Jesus meant when he said this?

The reason i ask is, somethings unless understood in the context in which they were said, can be misunderstood (this includes Gurbani too).

its maybe a long read, but worth it to see that event from a different perspective

Osho expresses this moment as such,

Jesus has done many miracles. One of the miracles is his miracle of transforming water into wine. These are metaphors – don’t take them literally. If you take them literally, you destroy their meaning, their significance. And if you start proving that they are historical facts, then you are stupid, and with you Jesus also looks stupid.

They are metaphors of the inner world. The inner world cannot be expressed literally, but symbolically – only symbolically. Turning water into wine simply means creating the eternal into time, creating that which remains into that which cannot remain.

If you keep water, sooner or later it will start stinking. But you can keep wine for ages, for centuries; and the longer it is there the better it becomes, the more powerful, the more potent it becomes. Wine is a metaphor for the eternal.

Jesus is transformed through his sacrifice. Nobody is ever transformed without sacrifice. You have to pay for it: the cross is the price that you pay for it. You have to DIE to be reborn. you have to lose all to gain God.

Jesus begat himself. That phenomenon happened on the cross. He hesitated for a time, he was

very much puzzled – it was natural. For a single moment he could not see God anywhere. All was lost, he was losing all; he was going to die and there seemed to be no possibility... That happens to every seed. When you put the seed into the earth, one moment comes when the seed is losing itself, and there must be hesitation – the same hesitation that happened to Jesus on the cross. The seed is dying, and the seed must cling to the past. It wants to survive – nobody wants to die. And the seed cannot imagine that this is not death, that soon it will be resurrected in a thousandfold way, that soon it will start growing as a sprout.

The death of the seed will be the birth of the tree, and there will be great foliage and flowering and fruits, and birds will come and sit on the branches and make their nests, and people will sit under the shade of the tree; and the tree will talk to the clouds and the stars in the night, and will play with the sky, and will dance in the winds; and there will be great rejoicing. But how can this be known to the poor seed which has never been anything else? It is inconceivable. That’s why God is inconceivable.

It cannot be proved to the seed that this is going to happen, because if the seed asks ’Then let me SEE what you are going to do’, you cannot make it available, you cannot make visible to the seed what is going to happen. It is going to happen in the future, and when it happens, the seed will be gone. The seed will never meet the tree. Man never meets God. When the man is gone, God descends.

Jesus hesitated, was worried, was bewildered. He shouted, almost shouted against the sky ’Why

have you forsaken me? Why? Why this torture for me? What wrong have I done to you?’ A thousand and one things must have crossed his mind.

The seed is dying, and the seed is completely oblivious to what is going to happen next. It is not

possible for the seed to conceive of that NEXT step, hence faith, hence trust is needed. The seed

has to trust that the tree will be born. With all the hesitation, with all kinds of fear, insecurities, with all kinds of anguish, anxiety – in spite of all of them – the seed has to trust that the tree will happen, that the tree is going to happen. It is a leap into faith.

And that leap happened to Jesus: he relaxed on the cross and he said ’Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done...’ His heart was palpitating. It is natural. Your heart will also palpitate, you will also be afraid when that moment of death comes to you, when that moment comes when your self disappears and you are losing yourself into a kind of nothingness, and there seems to be no way to survive, and you have to surrender.

You can surrender in two ways: You can surrender reluctantly, then you will miss the real point of it, then you will simply die and will be born again. If you can relax in deep acceptance, trust, if you can surrender without any resistance... That’s what Jesus did; that is the greatest miracle. To me that is the miracle – not that he gave health to somebody who was ill, or eyes to somebody who was blind, or cured the leprosy of somebody; or even helped Lazarus to revive, to come back to life – and he had died. No, those are not real miracles to me, they are all parables, metaphors. Every Master has given eyes to those who are blind, and ears to those who are deaf. Each Master has brought people out of their death that they call life, has called them out of their graves. Those are metaphors.

But the real miracle is when Jesus – in spite of all of his hesitations, worries, doubts, suspicions –

relaxes, surrenders, and says ’Thy will be done,’ that moment Jesus disappears, Christ is born.

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  • 14 years later...

Remember this was written by David. Way before Jesus. 

15

My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me [2] in the dust of death.

16

Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced [3] my hands and my feet.

17

I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me.

18

They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.

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Oops it pasted weird. And I can't edit. 
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning?
2
O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, and am not silent.
3
Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel. [1]
4
In you our fathers put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them.
5
They cried to you and were saved; in you they trusted and were not disappointed.
6
But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by men and despised by the people.
7
All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
8
"He trusts in the LORD; let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him."
9
Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother's breast.
10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God.
11
Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help.
12
Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13
Roaring lions tearing their prey open their mouths wide against me.
14
I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted away within me.
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  • 1 month later...
On 4/11/2008 at 4:41 AM, Into the Light said:

When on the cross, Jesus Christ said 'My God, Why hast thou forsaken me'...does anyone have a deeper appreciation to what Jesus meant when he said this?

First, I think you're assuming that Jesus did actually say that.

Maybe he did, in which case I don't know what it's supposed to mean.

But he certainly didn't write those words. There are no writings whatsoever by Jesus.

The Gospel ascribed to Matthew is not necessarily written by the supposed Apostle Matthew. This is a later church tradition.

There are no full copies of the Bible books until hundreds of years later.

Given all of this, one wonders if Jesus said that.

Which suggests the possibility of going down rabbit holes which start off by what "someone said".
 

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