New So Called Gur Matta Re Dasam Granth Ji

[Inder Singh]

Nihang singhs do parkash of all 3 granths, no problems at all. Tera ki dokh dah he?

THREE granths?? what is the third brother?

to be honest the article by the dasamgranth website is ridiculous. Dhan Dhan Sri Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj eternal living Guroo of all ages, we call Guroo Ji sitting on his throne as parkash, and then these people go and define parkash as the "opening of a granth for reading from", shows what they think of Guroo Ji.

At the end of the day having palki sahib, ramalla sahib and chaur sahib for Guroo Ji shows that we love Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as we love Guroo Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj, or any roop of Guroo Ji, becuase they are one and the same, and we know that Guroo Granth Sahib Ji is alive.

When people go and give chaur sahib, ramalla sahib and palki sahib to Dasam Granth or Sarbloh Granth, they are either showing that

a) they believe that these granths are alive like Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, that they are infact the roop of Guroo Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj- Complete manmat

b)They believe that Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth are granths written by maharaj and that its ok to give them these symbols, thus indirectly showing that they don't believe Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as alive, as the same things (chaur sahib, rumalla sahib etc) are carried out for GRANTHS and the living Guroo, how can this be? This is the beadbi.

Yes bani guroo, guroo hai bani, but Guroo Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj must for this day and age have ONE defined, complete form, that form is Dhan Dhan Sri Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

For example, we still consider a Jap Ji Sahib Gutka our Guroo right, but is that the present day roop of Guroo Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj?

Singhstah

Article states the facts.Do not get angry with the article.Any writing by our Gurus is gurbani.So Dasam Granth needs to be respected.Heavens are not going to fall if Dasam Granth is in parkash.As sikhs start readin g this granth slanderers will be exposed.

Veerji, its "Dasam Guru - Granth"

Does "Dasam - Guru Granth" makes any sense?

Some say to be a Saint-Soldier we must read Dasam Granth, was Sri Guru HarGobind Sahib ji a less Saint-Soldier or any other Guru Sahib???

Have you read Dasam Granth?If yes then you will not raise this question?Read it first.It will change your outlook.

[Inder Singh]

Look, it wasn't my intention to insult you, I am sure you have a great relationship with Guroo Maharaj, sorry.

but please try to see it from the other angle, from this side its more like Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is being brought down to the status of a book, that really is it, sorry, but thats how most against dasam granth "parkash" feel.

and please dont bring in dhan dhan shaheed singhs into this, its not fair, I or anyone else has no place in questioning them at all. However, if you didn't agree with EVERY pyara shaheed singhs views on rehit, would that mean you disrespect them?

bhull chukk maafee

What kind of a sikh you are if you do not know about Sarbloh Granth.Do your home work before participating in such a serious debate.Any bani written by our gurus is Gurbani and commands same respect.Read Sikh rehat maryada and definition of sikh in that.

In Sarb Loh Granth Guru Sahib say:

Nishan-i-Sikhi panj hurf kaaf||Hargiz na bashin een panj muaaf|| Karaa kardo kachh kangha bidaaan...No sikh is exempted from these five articles Kara Kangha Kirpan Kachhehra, and Kesh...Sikh is not allowed Darshan of Guru Gobind Singh ji if any article is missing.

[V]

Ak47, I'm not having a heartattack about anything. I'm questioning the double standards. Why does Taksal do parkash of Dasam Granth, and not Sarbloh Granth?

Though there are nihang dals that do, most Nihang Dals (if I understand correctly) do NOT do parkash of all three saroops. I may be mistaken, Jassa veer ji, could you fill us in, but my understanding is, most nihang dals do NOT do parkash of all three granth, neither does taksal. My question is - why the double standards? If all Gurbani is the same, then why not treat is that way?

Regarding Bhai Gurdas Ji diya vaara not being Gurbani, I think that's a very poor statement, especially considering our ithhas telling us the immense importance Guru Arjan Dev Ji placed on it. He "offered it" to be placed in Guru Granth Sahib. If its not Gurbani, what is it? Literature? Is that what it is? Very poor treatment and respect of Bhai Sahibs writings. Are you saying Bhagat Ravidas Ji's or Bhagat Sain Ji's writings are "more important" or "more valued" than Bhai Sahibs?

Regarding beadbi and not beadbi, ghorandhar has answered your question, but you totally ignored it. Beadbi is disrespect with a malicious intent. Doing something out of bhavna cannot be beadbi, he's already answered you, what part of his post do you not understand ?

As for Singhs speaking about regarding a certain issue and someone speaking up. They didn't read Raagmala at Akal Takhat during the morcha - I didn't hear Sant Ji make a fuss about that - does that mean he agreed with the way Akhand Path was done? At the time, there were far more important issues that needed to be tackled, rather than looking at each others differences and fighting over them. ou are reducing Sikhi to what Sant Ji said, or did not say. Sorry bro, but theres a lot of aspects of Sikhi that he did not mention, one being the system the Gurus instructed us to do Kirtan - in Raag - did he mention it? Does that mean he thinks doing Kirtan in the way, other than the one described by the Gurus was right? He had a mission he was working on. He did make a fuss over all of these things - raagmala or not raagmala. To do Kirtan in Raag, or not do Kirtan in Raag.

Just because he - or the other Singh from other Jathas (Bhai Fauja Singh etc) didn't comment on something during the period wasn't because they thought everything was RIGHT, rather because they left differences behind to work on the common mission.

Guru Sahib gave PANTH the power to make changes, hence why jathedars of taksal like Gyani Sunder Singh, up until their akal chalana did immense seva and contributions to making the current Panthic Rehit Maryada; which was later on endorsed by Gyani Gurbachan Singh Ji who told Gyani Kirpal Singh Ji (from taksal, who was meant to head Akal Takhat) to follow PANTH di maryada, when serving the PANTH rather than TAKSAL di maryada. Panth had already made a decision on the matter, and there was a Gurmatta from 1934 sayign the EXACT same thing vedanti just said. Ofcourse; you must be above all previous jathedars of the Panth.

Sikhi for me is what my Guru said and did. Guru Sahib did Parkash of Guru Granth Sahib, and gave Gurugadhi to Guru Sahib; and did NOT do that with Dasam Granth (remember that Guru Arjan Dev Ji did Parkash of the Aad Granth - in the same manner, if Guru Gobind Singh Ji intended it to be that way, he would have done that too.)

Apaa kaun ha Guru Sahib da tarika badlan valey

[AK-47]

singhstha, im sorry if i snapped at you, i apologise for that as well

v, lol for you im going to start and finish with the same statement ... what you gona do about it?

what double standards? lol if they dont do parkash of sarbloh granth why is that double standards? have they ever said it shouldnt be done? just because they dont do it, doesnt mean they disagree with it! and if you think that they should, well go and make the suggestion then! theres no double standards at all. except in your own head, i believe its called dubda. look it up.

and hang on hang on lol your arguing that bhai gurdas jis varran are the same as gurbani and yet your arguing agaisnt singhs doing parkash of dasam granth ji as they see that as the same as gurbani?!?! wheres the double standards now!?

iv nowhere denied the great importance of the varaan, but they are not gurbani. the bani from the other bhagats is gurbani as it was guru tongue which dictated it to be such. and iv already said what i think it is, gursikha di bani. that doesnt however make it gurbani. and as for calling writings literature, i think thats ur friend ragi darshana who does that!

and no his post does not answer the point. if it is based on bhavna, well then all of us who do joint parkash do it out of bhavna. there you go argument closed, go home and mind your own business. happy?

so at the time there were more important issues to be dealt with, but i assume since all those are sorted out, now is the time to argue about this yeh? despite me saying that this is just a game to cause more splits and divides!

and sorry but something as fundamental to the movement as the respect of guru granth sahib ji WAS covered by sant ji. every single one of his speeches he talks about satkar for guru granth sahib ji. he also does ragmala veechars. face it your stuck, on one hand you want to openly say that sant was wrong but on the other you cant. punga pe geya! i mean why on earth would he ask singhs to cut off the heads of those that did beadbi to guru sahib, if he was disrespecting maharajh himself? and the bhavna thing is rubbish as stated above, if its about bhavna then just shut your mouths and let us do our bhagti with our bhavna.

again common difference were set aside as you said, but now ki gal? everything in hunky dory in the panth that you want to fight over this gal? maybe vedanti and co should open their eyes to whats really happening in the panth rather then just kissing badals jhuthi. remember those who do parkash NEVER started this fight. it was those who were against it.

history of old mattas i dont know so i wont even bother commenting on.

gurus sahibs actions were obvious in their satkar for gurbani. you can twist history how you like. fact remains that guru sahib gave gurgaddi to guru granth sahib ji which no-one denies. but while being guru himself he had parkash of gurbani done. simple as that.

the rest is my bhavna. if you dont like it, aja, do what you want, as i said at the start, what you gona do about it? im getting quite sick of your slimy little comments. some singhs can just disagree with one another, but your more akin to a little sap. dekhi that you dont get smacked with a stick.

[V]

What I'm a snake because I'm using Gurbani and our ithhas to prove my point ?

Is it that, that is disturbing you?

Again, instead of doing it for the sake of argument, reread ghorandhars comment. He never said doing it out of bhavna makes it CORRECT . He said it's not BEADBI when you do things out of beadbi. Instead of throwing words into peoples mouth, about accusing other Gursikhs of doing BEADBI, I suggest you reread what has been said. And while you're at it, I suggest you look up the definition of beadbi in for example Mahan Kosh - or does that too complicated?

Stop twisting ithhhas to suit your arguments. Guru Sahib had parkash of Guru Granth Sahib, and not of "all Gurbani" as you're trying to make out. He clearly made a distinction, hence why HE DECIDED that his bani should not be in Maharaj (Not Sikhs, but HE HIMSELF made the distinction.) He did parkash of Guru Granth Sahib not of all Gurbani, you are twisting ithhhas to quit your needs.

Yeah I'm a snake if that's what you are for trying to follow what Guru Sahib started, and not a modification of what he started

[jassa]

Though there are nihang dals that do, most Nihang Dals (if I understand correctly) do NOT do parkash of all three saroops. I may be mistaken, Jassa veer ji, could you fill us in, but my understanding is, most nihang dals do NOT do parkash of all three granth, neither does taksal. My question is - why the double standards? If all Gurbani is the same, then why not treat is that way?

gurudwara damdama sahib rakba head quater budhadal has parkash of only guru granth sahib ... actually the thing is it doesnt matter ... the needed thing is parkash of guru granth sahib ....

if parkash of sri dasam granth or sri sarbloh granth is done we dont go out and fight why its done ... if its not done we dont fight why its not done ...

[N30S1NGH]

mister v/singh, here is picture of all the granths parkashed in nihang chauni:

Aad guru granth sahib, sri dasam guru granth sahib, sri sarbloh darbar:

enjoy !

it appears in the picture on the left sri guru granth sahib ji is parkashed little bit higher than sri dasam granth and sri sarbloh granth... may be nihang jassa verer ji on this forum can confirm this.

[ghorandhar]

singhstha, im sorry if i snapped at you, i apologise for that as well

v, lol for you im going to start and finish with the same statement ... what you gona do about it?

what double standards? lol if they dont do parkash of sarbloh granth why is that double standards? have they ever said it shouldnt be done? just because they dont do it, doesnt mean they disagree with it! and if you think that they should, well go and make the suggestion then! theres no double standards at all. except in your own head, i believe its called dubda. look it up.

and hang on hang on lol your arguing that bhai gurdas jis varran are the same as gurbani and yet your arguing agaisnt singhs doing parkash of dasam granth ji as they see that as the same as gurbani?!?! wheres the double standards now!?

iv nowhere denied the great importance of the varaan, but they are not gurbani. the bani from the other bhagats is gurbani as it was guru tongue which dictated it to be such. and iv already said what i think it is, gursikha di bani. that doesnt however make it gurbani. and as for calling writings literature, i think thats ur friend ragi darshana who does that!

and no his post does not answer the point. if it is based on bhavna, well then all of us who do joint parkash do it out of bhavna. there you go argument closed, go home and mind your own business. happy?

so at the time there were more important issues to be dealt with, but i assume since all those are sorted out, now is the time to argue about this yeh? despite me saying that this is just a game to cause more splits and divides!

and sorry but something as fundamental to the movement as the respect of guru granth sahib ji WAS covered by sant ji. every single one of his speeches he talks about satkar for guru granth sahib ji. he also does ragmala veechars. face it your stuck, on one hand you want to openly say that sant was wrong but on the other you cant. punga pe geya! i mean why on earth would he ask singhs to cut off the heads of those that did beadbi to guru sahib, if he was disrespecting maharajh himself? and the bhavna thing is rubbish as stated above, if its about bhavna then just shut your mouths and let us do our bhagti with our bhavna.

again common difference were set aside as you said, but now ki gal? everything in hunky dory in the panth that you want to fight over this gal? maybe vedanti and co should open their eyes to whats really happening in the panth rather then just kissing badals jhuthi. remember those who do parkash NEVER started this fight. it was those who were against it.

history of old mattas i dont know so i wont even bother commenting on.

gurus sahibs actions were obvious in their satkar for gurbani. you can twist history how you like. fact remains that guru sahib gave gurgaddi to guru granth sahib ji which no-one denies. but while being guru himself he had parkash of gurbani done. simple as that.

the rest is my bhavna. if you dont like it, aja, do what you want, as i said at the start, what you gona do about it? im getting quite sick of your slimy little comments. some singhs can just disagree with one another, but your more akin to a little sap. dekhi that you dont get smacked with a stick.

hang on a second, this is a discussion forum, you start a topic and then expect everyone to fall at your feet saying you are correct? Then when some one gives their point of view which is contrary to yours you say what are you going to do about it and shut up :homer Our veer/phen jees might as well close the forum down because we have to stop veechara.

I believe the double standards Veer V jee was referring to is that if Dasam granth jee being parkash is satkar of Guru Gobind Singh jees bani, why are you not doing satkar of the sarbloh granth.

Guru Arjan Dev jee asked Bhai Gurdas jee to add his bani into the Guru Granth Sahib jee (making such a statement has a meaning). Therefore Veer V jee was making the point of bhai gurdas jees vara and kabitt sawayai as being same as gurbani. The statement of Guru Arjan Dev jee might help you understand what Veer V jee is saying.

This issue has not just started, its been passed by Jathedhar Mohan Singh jee and discussed by the salayog committee. The Akal Takhat has made a decision on this issue before.

Considering Bhai Gurdas vara and kabitt/swayaai as gurbani but being against parkash of dasam granth is not double standards. Considering the shabads as gurbani is a different issue of parkash, the problem with parkash is the following: We must consider this decision by Guru Gobind Singh jee to be wrong if we need to rectify the situation by doing parkash of the Dasam Granth jee with Guru GRanth Sahib jee.

Bhavna in itself does not mean something is correct. If you want to do it then carry on (its you who are in violation of the Akal Takhat), no where does Sikhi tell us to point a gun at someones head if they disagree, however If you dont want this issue to be discussed and are telling us to shut up or abusing other members, why start the topic in the first place? Very strange.

Veer Inder Singh, I have no agenda. I simply believe in following Gurbani and the Guru Panth. I think you have asked me this question many times. :6

[SunSingh]

Bhai Gurdass ji's Vaaran are Gurbani, as is Bhai Nand Lal ji's writings.

Tradition of doing prakash of Dasam Granth Sahib ji is old and well established, going to Missl period at least. There is written evidence from western sources confirming this.

I think prakash of Sarbloh Granth SAhib wasn't done b/c it was kept rather secretive. Very few saroops existed. Only recently has it begun to have more saroops of it made.

Whole controversy over Dasam Bani has only exploded recently b/c politicians are trying to make 300 Sal celebrations fail. Think of the massive success for the panth from that prachaar opportunity, probabaly makes them quake in their boots.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

Bhai sahib bhai Gurdaas Jees vaars are satkaar jog, poojan jog, they are the ''key'' to guru granth sahib jee, however are not guru jees bani and not part of guru granth sahib jee. Maharaj may have given satkaar to the vaars as they contain the truth, however they are Gurbani, veer ak47 has hit the nail on the head with his last comment, i fully agree with bhai sahib. . . give it a rest with your comment about sant sundar singh helpping the apparent ''panthic'' maryada and the story about sant kirpal singh jee, firstly you dont follow what sant sundar singh jee said or sant gurbachan singh jee but still want to bang on about 1 bachan they may have said.