How Was Amrit Sanchar Conducted Between 1699-1708 ?

[chatanga]

When Guru Ji left Anandpur Sahib they had a bir of Dasam Granth Sahib with them, but in crossing Sirsa this Granth was carried away by the river. Also with this was also lost a " Vidya Sagar " granth,( pool of knowledge) but im not sure what this granth contained. Maybe it refering to the Dasam Granth, as it was not known as Dasam Granth in those times. Or it could have been seperate works of Guru Ji.

One for the scholars. Still this is very interesting topic.Thanks for starting it. I have learnt a lot from it.

[Akaali]

chatanga, it contained poems, thousands of them, and other military works and of the art of war for training horses, elephants, hunting dogs, archers, war strategies, etc. its not referring to only sri dasam granth sahib.

[Inder Singh]

Of course they existed.

Is this a historical fact? I mean can the historicity of these birs be proved or is it a tradition handed down.

When the birs are there,signature of Guru ji is there,date of compilation along scribes names are given what else historical you need?Is that not enough?

Noiw i ask you a question.Where is the original bir of SGGS ji?

chatanga, it contained poems, thousands of them, and other military works and of the art of war for training horses, elephants, hunting dogs, archers, war strategies, etc. its not referring to only sri dasam granth sahib.

Tilakhak

Vidyasagar granth had the compositions of court poets of Guru gobind singh.It is lost forever.It was not retrieved.

[Akaali]

Vidyasagar granth had the compositions of court poets of Guru gobind singh.It is lost forever.It was not retrieved.

Veerjeeo, thats what I said, along with vidya sagar also called "vidya dhaar" granth there wre other compositions for military training.

[Inder Singh]

Vidyasagar granth had the compositions of court poets of Guru gobind singh.It is lost forever.It was not retrieved.

Veerjeeo, thats what I said, along with vidya sagar also called "vidya dhaar" granth there wre other compositions for military training.

What were those?

[sikha]

As per prashan Uttar of Bhai Nand Lal the Guru is manifested in three ways.... One being God who pervades the entire universe and each and every cell, The Granth, and the sikh immersed in Gurbani,... it is possible that after Amrit Sanchar when singhs took amrit in kabul, dhaka and other places where the Guru was not present, it was the Panj Pyare and Nirgun God who were the two forms of the Guru present...

according to most rehitname, charan di pahul was still in use after 1699... i think charan pahul was for those who wanted to be sants, and khande di pahul for the sant-sipahis

[Inder Singh]

As per prashan Uttar of Bhai Nand Lal the Guru is manifested in three ways.... One being God who pervades the entire universe and each and every cell, The Granth, and the sikh immersed in Gurbani,... it is possible that after Amrit Sanchar when singhs took amrit in kabul, dhaka and other places where the Guru was not present, it was the Panj Pyare and Nirgun God who were the two forms of the Guru present...

according to most rehitname, charan di pahul was still in use after 1699... i think charan pahul was for those who wanted to be sants, and khande di pahul for the sant-sipahis

According to guru kia sakhian before amrit ceremony Guru ji asked by Chapat rai (later Chaupa singh) to take Charan -pahul Gagar(Gagar is vessel) and put the charan pahul in Sutlej and bring water form there.that is the water he used for Am,rit sanchar.

Is there any reference that charan pahul remained after Amrit sanchara?If so please put it here.All sikhs have to be khalsa one day.There are no two types of sikhs in sikhi.

[apne]

If the two birs were present in 1697 & 98 why the three banis of present day DG were recited orally and not from the birs. I mean why only sggs was prakash[ed] and not one of two historical original birs. What was the location of these birs during amrit sanchar ceremony in 1699?

Also these two birs must have been with guruji during evacuation of Anandpur. Chibber mentions that writings were lost in river. Why he does not mention these two birs? Chibber says that guruji got written a granth, samundar-sagar granth, and made it to be thrown in a river. He says guruji composed some other writings and these 'sanchian' [leaves] were lost during battle of anandpur. He also calls it avtar-leela. There is no mention of dasam granth, charitropakhayn or chaubis avtaar as they are called now. Also going by chibber, why would guruji himself throw his samundar-sagar granth into river? is this how gurbani is treated, even if by guruji maharaj.

[sikha]

i will look for the rehitname on charanpahul and copy the text into this later tonight or tomorow. But the rehitname makes it clear that it was still in use after 1699

[Inder Singh]

If the two birs were present in 1697 & 98 why the three banis of present day DG were recited orally and not from the birs. I mean why only sggs was prakash[ed] and not one of two historical original birs. What was the location of these birs during amrit sanchar ceremony in 1699?

Also these two birs must have been with guruji during evacuation of Anandpur. Chibber mentions that writings were lost in river. Why he does not mention these two birs? Chibber says that guruji got written a granth, samundar-sagar granth, and made it to be thrown in a river. He says guruji composed some other writings and these 'sanchian' [leaves] were lost during battle of anandpur. He also calls it avtar-leela. There is no mention of dasam granth, charitropakhayn or chaubis avtaar as they are called now. Also going by chibber, why would guruji himself throw his samundar-sagar granth into river? is this how gurbani is treated, even if by guruji maharaj.

When amrit sanchar is don eall five banis are read by heart and not from any granth.We do not know which granth was parkashed during amrit sanchar.Need to rememebr that Guru Gobind singh was Guru of sikhs that time.

Literaure was lost in inflated sirsa river.Some of the liertaure was recovered common people afterwards.It took time to surface and that is why Hazuri bir is in the possesion of a family whose forefathers bought it.Also whenever Guru ji was writing different composition copies of those were made.

Chaubis avtar was always chaubis avatr and charitropakhayan was always charitropakhayan.Compositiotns were different not at one time but over a long span of time.manuscript of Charitropakhaya written by one Chhauna singh in 1722 is in Punjab university now.

i will look for the rehitname on charanpahul and copy the text into this later tonight or tomorow. But the rehitname makes it clear that it was still in use after 1699

Can you quote that rehatnama please here.I have a book of Rehatnamas.