Non -Amritdharis and Naam Simran

[mrgreycells]

Bhul chuk Maaf...Bhul chuk Maaf....Bhul chuk Maaf

WHAT is naam simran ? ...isnt it taking Gods name and thinking about him ...somebody please elaborate on this ... i've always been fuzzy about it !

I know its very important - but dunno how to go about it.

Has anybody of you been doin it regularily...?... and how ?

[Guest mehtab]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

First of all, i don't understand the validity/reason behind this thread! Funny how we are not allowed to even whisper or breathe about ragmala/keski/meat but debating on Amrit (not that we are doing that exactly but close n similar) is going on without anyone raising the usual red flag. Why are we even arguing/debating over this? Isn't it true that Bhai Gurdas Jee said that a Sikh is not a Sikh unless Amritdhari? (which is why i don't call myself a Sikh and have requested many of my veers not to call me a Singh yet although they do so out of love and regard)

i wanna make myself clear on one thing : maybe we non-Amritdharis who have posted so far (including myself) do not fully grasp the true essence of understanding what it feels like (others please forgive me as i do not have any right to speak for all non-Amritdharis on this board) to be an Amritdhari and recite Naam.

Having said that, and having made myself clear that i m in no way gonna say anything thats contrary to taking Amrit (i'd rather kill myself before i do that), i wanna point out the example of Bhai Rama Singh Jee. He used to recite Mool Mantar 13-14 hours a day and said that any person of any religion who recites the Mool Mantar will achieve ridhiaan sidhiaan. He had partakh darshan of Guru Gobind Singh Jee while he was still haircut and cleanshaven and started keeping his hair and beard only afterwards. This will be refuted by saying that Bhaisahib had a lot of kamaaee from last janams, but i read in the same book that he was "cursed" by a blind ragi that he will be born in the house

of brahmins. Also, when he had darshan of Gurujee in the janam as Bhai Rama Singh Jee, he was still haircut and cleanshave.

Doesnt Gurbani say "jo jo japay tis ki gat hoy" ? Meaning that anyone who recites Gurbani or Naam will be saved? There are sakhis of Hindus/Muslims/Christians (all non-Sikhs) that i read in Bhai Rama Singh Jee's book who were blessed after reciting Sukhmani Sahib!

Now i wanna lay out the 6 rules of Gurmat according to Bhai Gurdas Jee (by the way, Sikhnet has refused to post these 2 times saying they want proof) :

(1) Humility (nimarta)

(2) considering other women as mothers/sisters

(3) not even touching another's possession

(4) staying away from slander (ninda) of anyone

(5) taking Amrit and Gurmat from Panj Pyaare

(6) to eat and sleep less

Note that taking Amrit is the 5th rule. i wonder how many out there who call themselves Amritdhari have perfected the first 4. The mahaan chardi kala GurSikhs that have been discussed were at a spiritual stage/level far far ahead than most of us.

Did Saaeen Miya Mir take charan pauhal from Guru Arjan? i dunno so plzz tell me. Did Pir Budhu Shah take Amrit from Guru Gobind Singh? i dunno so plzz tell me. Did the 4 sons of Pir Budhu Shah who were shaheeds fighting for Guru Gobind Singh take Amrit? i dunno so plzz tell me. Did Pir Bhikhan Shah who saw Guru Gobind Singh when He was a few days old take Amrit? i dunno so please tell me.

Did any of them NOT attain Mukti or Sachkhand? Who is anyone to comment on that?

Therefore my conclusions are as follows :

(1) i believe as Bhai Gurdas Jee said that a Sikh is not a Sikh unless Amritdhari. And undoubtedly, Naam Simran and Gurbani recited after taking Amrit brings a lot more grace than otherwise (i m not saying that non-Amritdharis will not be blessed if they do Naam Simran and Gurbani recital

i>).

(2) Those who are non-Amritdhari (including myself) should try hard to reach that stage and do constant ardas to Gurujee to get there.

(3) The so called Amritdharis who |A| consider themselves superior to others, |B| judge the paath and simran and kamaaee of non-Amritdharis as fruitless, |C| follow a MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY kind of approach to things in life, i m really sorry for them. They have totally missed out on the whole teaching of humility and egolessness which is the landmark gift of Sikhi to the world!

i feel like a loser trying to talk my way out, as if i dont wanna take Amrit (which is severely false). Once again, i don't understand the validity and reason behind this thread. Why can't people accept others as they are and let them move on the spiritual path of Sikhi at their own pace? Who is anyone to judge anyone else? Who is anyone to tell another to rush things up? At the end of the day, at some point, whether now or in the future, don't we all want to belong to Gurujee? So whats the fuss about?

Hope this post stays without being edited or deleted!

[Simran9]

excellent points, well said Rochak ji

i believe as Bhai Gurdas Jee said that a Sikh is not a Sikh unless Amritdhari

I totally agree with that. There are many non Amritdhari folks out there who call themselves Sikh but really you can't be a SIKH unless you've taken AMRIT. Ppl hate being denied admission in a group/society/whatever...they want to fit in even though they don't fit the description of a SIKH. Ppl say "I believe in God, I believe in the 10 Gurus, I believe in SGGS, I live by the SGGS, blah blah etc" but they haven't taken amrit. They say "How come I can't be a Sikh if I believe in all those things?" Well, all those are very important to becoming a Sikh, it's a must, but also to be a SIKH you gotta take amrit.

hope I didn't offend anyone ...just my thoughts on it...

[Ravneet Kaur]

HOw is amrit dharis having a monopoly on god any different than the Brahmans being a higher caste in hinduism? Like many have mentioned above naam is for everyone. Its just saddenning that someone would actually discourage someone like that. THen we wonder why our quam is headed where it is.

I respect the institution of amrit highly, however to say someones simran doesn't count? why is anyone even counting? Do it with no expectations and simply for the love of Akal Purkh. If we have pre-determined expectations then it defeats the purpose.

[japmans]

Rochak i agree with you, and i think everyone's ignoring a sentence you wrote and it was underlined roo:

(i m not saying that non-Amritdharis will not be blessed if they do Naam Simran and Gurbani recital).

but, in the same respect, this argument really isn't about amrit... it's about whether anyone can do simran, and if a non-amritdhari person does simran, is he still getting anything from it.

I like Khalsa4ever's response... God has selective hearing??! since when. Vaheguru will always know when or when youre not doing simran.. that's what counts...

BUT, it just doesn't mean as MUCH, until you've attained and achieved amrit.. that's all it is... a non-amritdhari can for SURE feel the effects of Naam, of Shabad, of Baani. That is for SURE! but when you take amrit, it's like, all that

and as Ravneet Kaur said.. Why is ANYONE keeping count? all that matters is that all of us acheive our goals of achieving Amrit, and of keeping Amrit, and of progressing ourselves! But before we can even take amrit, we hafta get ourselves ready!

When Bhai Randheer Singh wanted to take amrit, did he NOT prepare beforehand? Would he NOT wake at amritvela to do simran and nitnem? Wasn't he even REFUSED the first time he went to take armit?!?!

Those who say that only amritdharis should do simran should look at that story in his autobiography!

>

And, in reference to Bhai RAma Singh Ji, who did simran and got Dasam Patshahs darshan before even being amritdhari. That's amazing! In response to those who say that it's only cuz of his picchlay janam:

Let Everyone Who Wants to, let them improve this janam, because in their next lives, THIS will be their picchlay janam! They would WANT to have good picchlay janam, and what better way than to do simran. Stop living for the present. Live for the future. Some of us may have tons of lives in front of us.. keep improving! Whether you're amritdhari or not, you will always have God with you.... God doesn't discriminate. These will prove to be our Pichhlay Janam at some point.. Might as well make them as good as you can!

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Last 4 posts... well said!!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Hum Paapi]

i disagree and agree to some extent with most of you.....

without being given the naam by the punj pyara you

# 1- dont practice it the way it properly should be...which is saas girass (by each and every breath)

# 2- dont get the FULL assar of naam..without the being given the NAAM by the Punj Pyara one cannot reach sachkhand as a SIKH.....the naam is our path, the naam is everything...if we arent given it, we cant just take it..we must bow down to guru sahib prays that he grants us his greatest gift.....then only will he bless us wit his mercy...

Aisee preeth karo mann meraa

aatt pehaarr prabhh jannoo neeraa!

man mai sincho har har NAAM!!

anidin keeertan har gun gaam!

waheguruuu

$.02

bull chuk maf!

[Mkhalsa]

Veer jee, I never said anything about not doing mool mantar! In fact a non amritdhari would be best served doing a lot of mool mantars and reading a lot of bani. This will produce the most phal, a lot more than simran before amrit.

Reading bani will help create massive love so that when one does get naam, it will be an amazing experience because of the way the person has moved their heart previously.

[japmans]

Veer jee, I never said anything about not doing mool mantar! In fact a non amritdhari would be best served doing a lot of mool mantars and reading a lot of bani. This will produce the most phal, a lot more than simran before amrit.

Reading bani will help create massive love so that when one does get naam, it will be an amazing experience because of the way the person has moved their heart previously.

but veerji, the problem is this:

simran is so universal. it is understood by all.. The most amateur punjabi can understand the word vaheguru. That isn't to say that one shouldn't read abani at all, but i mean that simran is so helpful in that it's just so... it's so meaningful, yet so easy to understand what you're doing.. it's not pointless like it may feel sometimes to the person who has absolutely no knowledge of the baani he's sasying... so then what is one to do?

[Ravneet Kaur]

I am just completely and utterly shocked ppl are actually telling others NOT to do simran

That is one of the major themes of gurbani...wow...just amazed. the next time anybody complains about why ppl are so against traditional sikhi, i'd like to remind them of what was said here.