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Guest confusingh

Also let me add to the initial point of the attack...

Panjab Radio has brought alot of people closer to Sikhi with depth and analysis of GurBani, Good Job!

'Ros Na Kithe, Uttar Dije'

The above quote from bani, apologies for any spelling mistakes as it is difficult to write in english script instead of gurmukhi. CLEARLY states these acts being carried out of violence again Bhai saab were not in keeping with gurmat, any Singh who believes it was cannot be a true Guru Ka Singh, as they have then disrespected and gone against Bani.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Guest confusingh
Confusingh, you are TRULY CONFUSED, khalistan_zindabad is right, the Admin need to watch out for these types of anti-Panthic people who will try to confuse people with their twisted views.

P.S. Sants Rule! - You need to have a good read of Sikh history.

Also, Panjab Radio is as anti-Panthic as it can get.

Anti-Panthic is Panjab Radio, and Panjab Radio is anti-Panthic, the two words mean the same thing!!!

You have not given one reason in your response you have acted in nothing but an immature manner... Again you cannot give me an uttar which is more valid.

TELL me HOW am I anti-panthic... when I tell people of my background they then reply with I have an ego, how can one argue with those who have no ability to comprehend information!!!

LOL I REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND... HOW CAN YOU CALL SOMEBODY ANTI-PANTHIC when all I am saying is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj should be the source of all our problems and NOTHING or NOBODY else... 'GURU MANEYO GRANTH' this was a hukam from our Guru Sahib and we say this in ardas,,, tell me how this is anti-panthic you use this term so loosely that you probably don't even know what it means, I am in favour of panthic.org and people say that the publishing is political and anti-panthic, this is beyond explanation if you do not know what a word means dont use it!

It is very difficult to keep composure when a fellow Singh refuses to gain knowledge from anything

FATEH!

I herd the presenters of Gurbani program are cut hair. How can you have clean shaven presenters for youth gurbani programs?

lol... no this is untrue, look I'm no rep of panjab radio I have no loyalty to any group I am unbiased in all manners, however many have found this hard to understand.

The presenter of Gurbani programme are all Amritdhari Sikhs

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I totally understand where you are coming from when you say that spiritual powers cannot exist. I used to feel the same way and would always look at things through the lens of science. But the truth is, riddh siddh are, by definition, unexplainable by science. They do exist. I have seen them. As have many other sikhs. It is not for no reason that people believe in the existence of such things. Also, riddh siddh come to a person at a RELATIVELY low stage. If someone says they cannot exist, we automatically know that that person cannot guide us at all with regards to any higher level questions we might have as they themselves have not even reached this stage.

It is interesting how all who hold missionary views claim riddh siddh cannot exist, while those who believe such things can exist have learned enough to reject missionary views.

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Confusingh,

You may have detected sarcasm in my posts but I was actually going out of my way to be reasonably polite, but since you have seen fit to be patronising and ill-mannered, I shall return the favour.

Firstly, congratulations in your successful attempt at making a concise post. (Now, that was sarcasm.)

I actually fail to believe you, you jump to great conclusions and don't deduce any of my arguments...

Perhaps that's because it's your job to deduce your own argument? Or are you expecting me to infer meaning from your confused ramblings?

How can you not credit Sakhiyan with the art of symbolism... they represent and show to us outcomes of what should happen if we are not to carry out a GurSikh lifestyle of truth... however you wish to ignore this, and choose cling and nit pick in your arguments,

Nope, not what I claimed.

The thing I don't see you can't understand is the fact is,

Yes, I can see your 5 years of learning have taught you much, young padawan. What?

You you sarcastic comments to counter my arguments, you don't actually take an intelligent approach and think ok... right or wrong, and say what you want I've seen alot of your other arguments, if they are not about Kung Fu they are sarcastic, and that approach Veer Ji isn't the way to get Gian, as I treat your views of sants, supernatural and rituals with respect for them being YOUR views... you should do the same for my views of gaining gian from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

Nope, I don't have to respect the views of an egomaniacal nutjob who is so inflated with his perceived self-importance that he believes everyone should agree with him because he claims 5 years of gian and countless shaheeds in his family, especially one who has such a weak command of the English language.

upon our mortal presence I do not feel it is suitable for a Singh to believe in supernatural practices... what made Madho Das in to Baba Bandha Singh Bahadur was him then denouncing spiritual powers and becoming gulaam to Guru Ji.

Earlier you said that the Guru Granth Sahib tells us that the supernatural does not exist, now you use the example of Madho Das, an expert sorcerer according to the puratan granths, who gave up his mantra-jantra and became Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Banda when he realised that his powers could not affect Guru Ji. So have you changed your mind?

We shouldn't be putting faith within superstitions, supernatural, rituals and idolatry as well as giving humans divinity, these are clearly not in keeping with the value system which many people do not get parchaar about... You may have your own views on ghost, spirits aliens and freddie kruger and you may find a sant who also believes in this... however if i was to introduce somebody to you tell you hes a sant (and he might have done great great seva and parchar and made lots of people Singhs) and he then tells you the only way to get rid of spirits around is to donate monthly a fee of £900, by your logic, would this then be neccesary?

No one here claims that mahapurush are divine or infallible, but I will most certainly listen carefully to anyone who has dedicated their lives to understanding the Guru's scriptures and has done great naam abhyaas and bhagti.

So far, the only message your posts contain is that: you are right, that only your views will bring the whole panth together in ekta, that mahapurush who have done more bhagti and have more learning than you will ever have do not understand the Guru Granth Sahib like you do because you have 5 WHOLE YEARS!!! of learning, and the people who disagree with your are not really Sikhs.

Truth is, yaar, that you are a nastik whose God is his insignificant ego and whose guru is his undereducated and disorganised mind.

Now quit your whining that no one is offering you logical arguments because it is clear that you are incapable of recognising them let alone countering them. If you actually want someone to read your posts, have the respect to refrain from typing every single confused though that enters your mind.

You keep mentioning these Gursikhs who agree with your message, and scholars who acknowledge your wisdom by mirroring your own thoughts. NAME THEM or admit that you are a lying fool.

K.

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Guest confusingh

Veer ji,

As I stated in previous posts, I am not of any poltiical stance, I am just a GurSikh...

It is not a matter of me not attaining some spiritual powers or experiencing them; I feel that Sikhi is rather a journey to enlighten Sikhs of the way to live a moral life it based on values, morals and principles, the teachings of all our Guru Ji's tell us this. However to dismiss the intricacy of Sikhi as a supernatural means to Waheguru isn't in any way a means of obtaining Gian... I don't believe supernatural exist not just due to scientific proof, however but because of the situation in which Sikhi was set up, it is directly in conflict within Sikhi

Sabh nidhaan das astt sidhaan tthaakur kar tal dhar-i-aa

The above quote from Rehras Sahib... tells us the supernatural is in the hand of the lord... meaning that we are mere humans and Waheguru is the supreme and it is only Waheguru who obtains this.

Supernatural clearly has no place within Sikhi because it hinders ones devotion to Naam (Waheguru), if supernatural experiences did occur and were an integral part of Sikhi then ahankar one of our panj vikaar would be a problem ... because as you are saying one obtains them in an early stage of Sikhism, and to say one does and another doesn't experience supernatural powers is one attempting to show superiority (ahankar/ego).

Also I quote in english some more of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj-

''Riches and the supernatural spiritual powers of the Siddhas are all emotional attachments; through them the naam, the name of the lord does not come to dwell in the mind'' from the ang 593 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

Previously another poster said this does not state they don't exist, ok let me put forward a question, IF they do exist (they don't) then a Sikh who experiences and attepts to come across these is then commiting two of the panj vikar... moh and ahankaar... therefore they are straying away from a path of Sikhi...

I will quote further from Maharaj ji...

''He practices the eighty four postures of Yoga, and acquires the supernatural powers of the Siddhas, but he gets tired of practicing these. He lives a long life, but is reincarnated again and again; he has not met with the Lord'' from the ang 642 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

This is again clearly evidence that Sikhi denounces practices and rituals in order for a means of personal gain, you don't obtain the charan of Waheguru if you practice these supernatural powers... our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj tells us we are carrying out moh and ahankar and if one is to give in to these then they become a manmukh, therefore by saying these Sants have supernatural powers and they're divine then we are clearly going against Gurmat and are disobeying these messages... then let me also further clarify.. we cannot go against gurmat because then we become manmukhs... and if these Sants are openly practicing these supernatural powers, then they are going against gurmat and are carrying out 2 of the panj vikar which are moh and ahankar... also they are then manmukhs themselves as well as their chelay who enforce and promote this 'supernatural power' they possess... therefore again no need for Sants, this isn't me saying this, these are quoted from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj the Guru of all Sikhs...

And if the Sants do not carry out practices and rituals to obtain these powers then they are mere errant humans (who can make mistakes) and therefore their parchaar can't be classed as exclusively true and divine but simply an opinion or an interpretation by which we cannot follow and become their followers, but we can question and learn ourselves from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, when using guidance from another human form we are then directly conflicting against our religion again... 'GURU MANEYO GRANTH' tells us as a hukam from our Guru Ji's that we should ONLY follow the guidance of ONE guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and if we stray from this then we are again not following Gurmat principles.

Once again, the quotes I have used have been from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as I choose not to look elsewhere for my guidance.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Guest confusingh

Kaljug Singh Veer ji, I see some rage has come within your post lol... take it easy!

All you have said here is stuff about me and how Mahapurshs know more than me,,, yes ok they might do... but you follow sants and mahapursh and I follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj... agreed?

If not, then you are ultimately agreeing with my point that Sikhs should not look to Sants or ANY human for a form of guidance only Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Confusingh,

Supernatural clearly has no place within Sikhi because it hinders ones devotion to Naam (Waheguru), if supernatural experiences did occur and were an integral part of Sikhi then ahankar one of our panj vikaar would be a problem ... because as you are saying one obtains them in an early stage of Sikhism, and to say one does and another doesn't experience supernatural powers is one attempting to show superiority (ahankar/ego).

They occur as a natural consequence of disciplined meditation and simran. Is it ahankar to walk around with 28 inch biceps as a result of working out regularly when the average person doesn't? Is it ahankar to put Dr in front of your name because you have a PhD and the average person doesn't?

Also I quote in english some more of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj-

''Riches and the supernatural spiritual powers of the Siddhas are all emotional attachments; through them the naam, the name of the lord does not come to dwell in the mind'' from the ang 593 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

Previously another poster said this does not state they don't exist, ok let me put forward a question, IF they do exist (they don't) then a Sikh who experiences and attepts to come across these is then commiting two of the panj vikar... moh and ahankaar... therefore they are straying away from a path of Sikhi...

Are you having difficulty comprehending the above quote? Why would riches and supernatural powers be emotional attachments if they don't exist?

I will quote further from Maharaj ji...

''He practices the eighty four postures of Yoga, [b]and acquires the supernatural powers of the Siddhas[/b], but he gets tired of practicing these. He lives a long life, but is reincarnated again and again; he has not met with the Lord'' from the ang 642 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

This is again clearly evidence that Sikhi denounces practices and rituals in order for a means of personal gain, you don't obtain the charan of Waheguru if you practice these supernatural powers...

''He practices the eighty four postures of Yoga, and acquires the supernatural powers of the Siddhas'" Thanks for just proving my point and contradicting yourself.

our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj tells us we are carrying out moh and ahankar and if one is to give in to these then they become a manmukh, therefore by saying these Sants have supernatural powers and they're divine then we are clearly going against Gurmat

Who exactly and where has anyone here claimed that a Sant has supernatural powers and that they are divine?

and are disobeying these messages... then let me also further clarify.. we cannot go against gurmat because then we become manmukhs... and if these Sants are openly practicing these supernatural powers, then they are going against gurmat and are carrying out 2 of the panj vikar which are moh and ahankar...

If, as according to yourself, these supernatural powers don't exist, how can a Sant openly practice them?

also they are then manmukhs themselves as well as their chelay who enforce and promote this 'supernatural power' they possess... therefore again no need for Sants, this isn't me saying this, these are quoted from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj the Guru of all Sikhs...

You logic is as as non-existent as your reading skills.

And if the Sants do not carry out practices and rituals to obtain these powers then they are mere errant humans (who can make mistakes) and therefore their parchaar can't be classed as exclusively true and divine but simply an opinion or an interpretation by which we cannot follow and become their followers, but we can question and learn ourselves from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, [b]when using guidance from another human form we are then directly conflicting against our religion again...[/b]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yes, we should not take guidance from another human being. Except you. So santhiya, grammar, and linguistics, history, lexicography, etymology are all unneccesary because we are born with this learning.

'GURU MANEYO GRANTH' tells us as a hukam from our Guru Ji's that we should ONLY follow the guidance of ONE guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and if we stray from this then we are again not following Gurmat principles.

Yes, and we should never learn mathematics from a professor with a Fields Medal, because that would be manmat. We should all just interpret maths ourselves. Except when you tell us what an equation means, because then it's right.

Singh, I'm not manifesting rage, I just refuse to let you get away with lies and nindiya. I will point out your nonsensical statements and laugh at your pathetic attempts at discourse whenever you continue your nindiya of greater Gursikhs than you or me.

I follow no Sant above Sri Guru Granth Sahib; you follow you and that is all.

Regards,

K.

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How can Punjab radio be a panthic when its presenters do not look like a sikh. How can it be a panthic when it is propagating anti panthic philosophy of heretics like Inder Ghagha, Kala afghana, Darshan Ragi , Giani Gulshan etc etc.

Let me suggest to confuse singh that sikh philosophy does not bar attainment of enlightenment to uneducated sikhs. Sikh teachings say that it is child like simple mind that helps in attainment of Akal purakh. So all bogus and fake professorships that tenth grade pass Darshan ragi and Inder Ghagha flaunt, are not helpful in comprehending Sikhi if they do not have faith.

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