Inappropriate Vaja Tunes

[Akaali]

yea I think CaptainQ took this thread in the wrong direction and pointed his finger against AKJ in specific, but some AKJ keertanees do sing in such tunes along with raagi and other keertanees, I feel that one of the ways we can tackle this is to train ourselves to sing more in raag as well..

[Papi]

It's quite simple, raagi's sing filmi tunes because when they do that people give them more money. Also, I have been told by MANY raagi's that when they do raag kirtan for a while sangat gets up and leave, so they keep shabada sung in raag very short.

I think the problem lies with us, not them. We don't appreciate raags anymore.

PS. not ALL raagi's do kirtan for money, before someone mentions that <_<

[chatanga]

agree wiv tubelight. kirtanis/dhadis i have spoken to say they avoid raags as sangat duznt have clue of raags, and prefer to use cheesy tunes instead as sangat can relate to this more. the decline in raag vidya is as apparent as the decline in spirituality of the sikhs. Raag is the key to understanding the shabd. It requires the listener to focus completly on ths shabad. Something that has been lost on most of us. you cannot comprehend the power of a shabd that shud be performed in the expression of Raag Sri Raag, when it is played to long da lishkara.

anyways we shud be encouraging more raag kirtan and ONLY using the saajs that Guru Ji created for us, or used themselves. The saranda/taus/dilruba were created by Gurus to do kirtan. So if we ignore Gurus work, then can we really complain about cheesy kirtan?

and boycott jathas like srinagar, riar and sodhi.

[akal sahai]

we should just stick to stringed instruments, rather then wind.... or else we will loose the way kirtan was done in guru ji's time.... wind instruments did exist in guru ji's time but guru ji used stringed instruments further more guru gobind singh ji invented two more stringed instruments, but the question is how many people knew that......

[CaptainQ]

yea I think CaptainQ took this thread in the wrong direction and pointed his finger against AKJ in specific

ok hold on a second.

In no way was i trying to "point my finger" towards AKJs or the way they do kirtan. maybe i should have been more in depth in my first post.

my friend 'Akaal Purakh Ki Fauj', Akhand kirtan and Ragi style kirtan are 2 of the most popular kirtan styles and they both copy tunes. Just because i mentioned AKJ, does that somehow mean that im against the jatha or trying to justify the actions of the proffesional ragis??

The same could be mentioned for western style keertan (such as 3HO, accapella jatha etc), isnt this the same as ragi keertanis not doing raag?? Im not trying to point the fingers at anybody or put down any jatha. if anything id like people to see the bigger picture.

Whatever style it is, Kirtan has a impact and bring people into sikhi. i know various gursikhs who got into sikhi through AKJ, Ragi style etc and that certainly CANNOT be a bad thing. Like i said in the previous post, there needs to be more Raag Kirtan.

Just on the side note, I listen to all types of keertan and yes i DO listen to ragi style and im not anti jatha so stop picking on me lol

[sunny_love_kirtan]

the idea of akhand kirtan by akhand kirtan jatha is only to make every one and those who do not knw anything abt music raag taal to do recite kirtan in sangat. thats why easy tunes are used and no one follow hindi film song tunes, but they folk tunes are used sometimes which do not only belongs to punjbai songs, folk is a music style of common people which is easily sung by everyone.

let the ordinary people listen and recite kirtan to get laha.

its better for non music people to listen kirtan in simple tunes rather than losing their interest in kirtan.

Raag kirtan is a very blessed thing and only rare people can do it and waheguru knows very well which kind of kirtan seva he has to take from us.

[Akritghan]

It's quite simple, raagi's sing filmi tunes because when they do that people give them more money. Also, I have been told by MANY raagi's that when they do raag kirtan for a while sangat gets up and leave, so they keep shabada sung in raag very short.

I think the problem lies with us, not them. We don't appreciate raags anymore.

PS. not ALL raagi's do kirtan for money, before someone mentions that <_<

yes definately...raagis have families as well....the problem lies with us....raag is in Dhan Dhan Sahib Sri Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj for a reason...it is Gurbaanee...and is it right that we should ignore this part of Gurbaaneee? cos that is what we are doing?

im guessing that everyone agrees that all of Dhur Ki Baanee is Hukam for everyone to follow...but its ok to cut that bit out????isnt that beabdi in itself?yet we shout and scream at naamdhaaress for changing or ignoring tuks of Gurbaanee.....yet its alright for us to do the same?

we are stupid people and think we know better then our Guroo when we dont make the effort to learn raag...anyone here who doesnt have the opportunity to learn raag...pm me and ill put u in touch with a few people who could teach u-not naamdhaarees dont worry...

and also why do u want to learn the vaaja when Guroo Sahib has blessed us with instruments such as sarangi, dilruba, taus, rabab saranda? we say that we play the vaja cos its easier to learn....i guess that i dont have to learn gurmukhi either cos i can just read the english translation.....same thing isn't it?cos we know more than our Guroo hunna?(thats sarcasm btw)

p.s i am a hypocrite cos i aint had a tanti saaj or santhiya lesson for over a month

[Alias Prince]

i dont know about every 1 but i love playing guess the hindi song - the way you play it is you get 1 point for the correct song and a bonus point for getting the film it was in.

[paman]

i dont know about every 1 but i love playing guess the hindi song - the way you play it is you get 1 point for the correct song and a bonus point for getting the film it was in.

i disagree with what everyone is saying - and i ask you this - at the risk of being labelled militant , which doesnt bother me, why do you have knowledge of a tune being a 'bollywood' or 'hindi film' tune in the first place?

you cannot have it both ways - complain that they use these tunes and yet its ok for you to listen to/watch and have knowledge of these tunes!!!

take a look inside before you go looking for faults...you might be surprised,,,(i include myself in this)

[Akaali]

why do you have knowledge of a tune being a 'bollywood' or 'hindi film' tune in the first place?

Not everyone is born into Sikhi, you can't be born a Sikh.

I'm sure many use to listen to Hindi/Punjabi songs before they got into Sikhi which they remember, when the tune is replayed at the gurdwara sahib, which I feel is an inappropriate place for it, hence the title 'Inappropriate Vaja Tunes', many have been exposed to that type of music so these tunes are kind of like a reminder, which shouldn't be happening in the first place, the tunes have been given to us in the form of raags, if one doesn't have sufficient knowledge of raags then they make up tunes, I think that's fine, but when one starts to COPY tunes from a hindi movie, I think that is inappropriate.