God Is Met Through Sikhi

[besoft]

All that you have stated is absolutely fine Veer ji, But the topic of discussion is going back and forth.As I understand that, for we the sikhs, sikhi is the natural way to be with HIM if HIS grace permits. 'Khande Bate di pehal' is the first step in the ladder for a Khalsa [ pure]. It may make some one closer to the Lord if one follows the teachings of Granth sahib ji who is the Living Master [11th Guru-living jyot] of the sikhs. A sikh becomes a Khalsa by taking Amrit through the 'Punj'.That is perfectly fine.

Guru mantra can be practiced by a non-sikh.Infact, many sindhis do this.There is no strict prescription, that you should elaborate, that it is only for sikhs.

In essence of the post: Yes, by following the teachings contained in the God's word one acn attain the lord.

Sikhism has many concepts and the most important, that strikes to me right away, are devotional worship through jap/simran , fear of god and the love for Lord by becoming ' Sachiara'. Anyone can practice this. I mean a non-sikh also.

I would be grateful if you could expand on the above post ,Veer ji, for the benefit of the sangat.

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

lol so much hindutva here.

there is 1 man kind, religion is indifferent, god is NOT EGOTESTICAL. he does not "smite" because of your religious beliefs.

[Degh-Tegh-Fathe]

Guru mantra can be practiced by a non-sikh.Infact, many sindhis do this.There is no strict prescription, that you should elaborate, that it is only for sikhs.

.

How would u know gurmantr if you havent taken amrit..as only the panj can give u gurmantr...

[dhan_teri_sikhi]

Are you talking about those Sindhis who don't support flowing beards and long hair?

What use is the Naam without Maryada. For all i know we could be Japping Naam for selfish needs?

[Papi]

Guru mantra can be practiced by a non-sikh.Infact, many sindhis do this.There is no strict prescription, that you should elaborate, that it is only for sikhs.

.

How would u know gurmantr if you havent taken amrit..as only the panj can give u gurmantr...

As per Bhai Gurdass Jee, "waheguru gurmantr hai..."

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5832

[Degh-Tegh-Fathe]

Guru mantra can be practiced by a non-sikh.Infact, many sindhis do this.There is no strict prescription, that you should elaborate, that it is only for sikhs.

.

How would u know gurmantr if you havent taken amrit..as only the panj can give u gurmantr...

As per Bhai Gurdass Jee, "waheguru gurmantr hai..."

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5832

True that, i should have covered that in my earlier post, but its not just about knowing what the gurmatar is, its about being able to jap it. Certain jathas panj pyare physically plant naam within you which aids in japping naam. Back to the original topic, i believe that you may get peace of mind and get your karams in the right order by being a good christian, muslim, jew but to reach the supreme kal you have to jap naam and TAKE AMRIT, and to all the people that say all you have to do is be good on the inside: Rehat pyari mujko sikh pyara nahi.

[dhan_teri_sikhi]

Kirpan Da Amrit (The Nectar Of Sword)

(Amrit Pal Singh ‘Amrit’)

The Sikh Religion is like a school. The Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the principal and the only teacher in this school.

Though anyone can take free lessons from the Holy Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the certified students learn more quickly, because they are the regular students. The regular students attend their classes. They take daily lessons.

Every school has an admission system. Most of the schools publish an admission form. If someone wants to get admission, he has to fill up the form and submit it in the office. He has to appear in an interview. The interviewer asks some question and if he is satisfied, he admits the interviewee into his school.

The school of Sikh Religion has its own procedure of admission. If someone wants to get admission into this school, he/she has to follow the procedure. He/she will have to appear for an interview. The ‘Panj Piyare’ (five beloved ones) are the interviewers in this school. The seeker of admission appears before them. They ask him/her some questions. If they are satisfied, they tell the rules of the school. If the seeker is ready to follow the rules, he/she can get the admission. But the procedure of admission is not completed yet.

The five beloved ones prepare the ‘Amrit’, the nectar. This nectar is prepared and distributed to the seeker in a ceremony, which is called ‘Amrit Sanchar’. The nectar is prepared in an iron bowl. The five beloved ones sit around it. Clean water and sweet puffs are put in the iron bowl. The five beloved ones recite the Gurbani (Jap ji, Jaap sahib, Swayyas, Chaupayee and Anand Sahib) one by one and keep stirring the water with a ‘khanda’ (double-edged sword). This is the Sikh baptism.

Because this nectar is prepared using the ‘khanda’, so it is called ‘Khande Da Amrit’ (the nectar of double-edged sword). It is also called ‘Khande Dee Pahul’, ‘Pahul Khandedhaar’ and ‘Khandedhaar Pahul’. This ‘Khande Da Amrit’ is distributed to every man and woman, who wants to get the admission into the Holy school of Sikh Religion, who wants to be the Sikh of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

When some people visit Takht Sri Hazoor Sahib, they find that the women are baptized by the kirpan (sword) instead of ‘khanda’ during ‘Amrit Sanchar’. While baptizing the women, only Jap Ji Sahib, few stanzas from Jaap Sahib, and six stanzas from Anand Sahib is read. Only one beloved one (Panj Piyara) prepares the Amrit. This Amrit is called ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’.

Here, I want to make it clear that there are two types of ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’. One is distributed to the women while baptism. Other is distributed to newborn baby. The ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’ distributed to newborn baby is not considered a baptism. It is distributed so that the parents can eat with their babies in a same utensil. It is considered a religious ritual.

The distribution of ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’ to newborn is a very old tradition in some Gursikh Families. An Amritdhari person recites Sri Jap Ji Sahib and prepares the nectar in an iron bowl with a sword. (Some people recite only first five stanzas of Sri Jap Ji Sahib). Then he put some drops of it into the mouth of newborn using the sword as a spoon. My Nana Ji (the father of mother) himself prepared ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’, when I was born. I was distributed ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’ by my Nana Ji himself. It is an old tradition in our families and still kept alive. I do not find anything wrong in this tradition.

Distributing this Amrit to newborn is not the baptism. When the child grows, it has to take ‘Khande Da Amrit’. I was distributed ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’ when I was born, but later I was baptized through ‘Khande Da Amrit’.

Now, let us discuss about the ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’ as a baptism for the women.

I am a Hazoori Singh (often called Hazooriya). I tasted the holy nectar (Amrit) at Takht Sri Hazoor Sahib. I myself saw that the women were baptized by a single beloved one. He prepared the nectar by a small sword. Though, it is said that Jap Ji, few stanzas from Jaap Sahib, and six stanzas from Anand Sahib is read while preparing ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’; it is possible that only the Jap Ji Sahib is read practically.

The people want to know what is its history. They want to know what is the logic behind it to baptize the women by kirpan instead of khanda.

I think that the book ‘Sri Hazoori Maryada Prabodh’ represents the views of the people, who support ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’ for women.

‘Sri Hazoori Maryada Prabodh’ is written by Singh Sahib Joginder Singh ji, the then Jathedar of Takht Sachkhand Abichal Nagar Hazoor Sahib (He died some years ago). It was written and published in 1967. I used its first edition while giving references.

In this book, the topic ‘Kirpan Da Amrit Maayeeyaan Noon’ (the nectar of sword for women) has been discussed (from page 235 to page 246).

Singh Sahib Joginder Singh ji has given a reference to a book ‘Khalsa Dharam Shashtar’. Singh Sahib Joginder Singh wrote that according to ‘Khalsa Dharam Shashtar’, it is an old tradition to distribute ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’ to the woman. At the beginning, only ‘Charan Pahul’ (the water, which is used to wash the feet of Guru) was allowed for women. But some Amritdhari (who tasted the nectar) men do not eat the food, which is cooked by non-Amritdhari, so it was thought that women should be distributed ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’. The other reason given in the book is that without ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’, the women cannot get useful ideas to help their warrior husbands. This was the reason to distribute ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’ to the women.

Actually, the writer of ‘Khalsa Dharam Shashtar’ is trying to say that even ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’ was not allowed for the women. The ‘Charan Pahul’ was the valid baptism for them.

The writer did not tell that if ‘Charan Pahul’ was the valid baptism for the women, then who started the ‘Kirpan Da Amrit’. He did not tell whether eating the food, which is cooked only by an Amritdhari, is based on the Gurbani or not. He did not tell whether such Amritdhari persons take the medicines prepared by non-Amritdhari people or not.

It is the accepted fact that after March 30, 1699 A.D., when ‘Khalsa Panth’ was created, Guru Gobind Singh did not distribute anyone his ‘Charan Pahul’. ‘Khande Da Amrit’ was a substitute for the ‘Charan Pahul’. How was it possible that the women were still being baptized through ‘Charan Pahul’? If someone still persists, he should tell that whose ‘feet’ were being washed to prepare ‘Charan Pahul’ after Guru Gobind Singh left his physical body.

So, it is wrong to say that ‘Charan Pahul’ was a valid baptism even after the creation of Khalsa Panth or after 1708 A.D. (when Guru Gobind Singh left his physical body).

According to the writer of ‘Khalsa Dharam Shashtar’, it is the God’s will that there is difference in physical structure of men and women. There is difference in gents-jewellery and ladies-jewellery. There is difference in their activities, like the birth of child etc. So, there is difference in men’s nectar and women’s nectar.

I think this is not less than a joke. The Amrit is not jewellery. It has to do nothing with physical structure. The Amrit is a necessity to get admission into the School of Guru.

If oxygen is needed for physical body, the Amrit is needed for spiritual body. We cannot live physically without oxygen; we cannot live spiritually without the nectar. The physical body needs the water; the spiritual body needs the nectar. It does not make any difference if one has not any jewellery.

The differences in physical structure do not make much difference. The men and the women take birth in a same way. Both of them die in a same way. Both of them fall ill in a same way. Both of them laugh in a same way. Both of them weep in a same way. Why is there a different way to prepare the Amrit?

The men and the women drink the same water. Both of them use the same air to breath. Both of them eat the same food. Both of them take the same medicine when they fall ill. Why do they need different Amrits (nectars)?

The writer says that the Amritdhari men keep the ‘Khanda and Kirpan’ on their heads. He says that the ‘Khanda’ and the ‘Kirpan’ is a pair, as a male and a female are a couple. I think the writer is talking about the ‘Khanda Kirpan’, which is like a badge.

Here I want to say that all the Amritdhari men do not keep ‘Khanda and Kirpan’ (a kind of badge) on their turbans. Secondly, there are not only ‘Khanda’ and ‘Kirpan’ in that badge, but there is also a ‘Chakar’ (a round shaped weapon). If the ‘Khanda’ represents a male and ‘Kirpan’ represents a female, then what about the ‘Chakar’? Whom does the ‘Chakar’ represent? And also, there are two swords in that badge. Does it mean a male should have two females? A ‘Khanda’ and two swords do not make a pair. And there is a ‘Chakar’ also.

The writer has given a reference to ‘Rahatnama Bhayee Chaupa Singh Ji. In reply to this, I would like to say that the ‘Rahatnamas’ are not the Gurbani. There are many things in the ‘Rahatnamas’, which cannot be accepted. Interestingly, S. Kartar Singh Khalsa, Jatha Bhindran (Mehta) quoted Bhayee Chaupa Singh differently, “Jo Sikh, Sikhani Noo Khande Dee Pahul Na Deve, So Tankhahiya” (The Sikh, who does not give ‘Khande Dee Pahul’ to Sikhani (Sikh-woman), is a culprit). (See: ‘Khalsa Jeevan and Gurmat Rahat Maryada’ written by Sant Kartar Singh Khalsa, Jatha Bhindran (Mehta), page 180, edition 1977). Thus, there is adulteration in the ‘Rahatnama’.

The writer says sarcastically that he, who supports ‘Khande Da Amrit’ to women, should pray before the God to transform a woman into a man.

There is no need to pray for such a transformation. It is the God’s own will that some are men and some are women. He has the power to transform the women into men and the men into women. The Gurbani says, “Naaree Te Jo Purakh Karaavai, Purakhan Te Jo Naaree. Kaho Kabeer Saadhoo Ko Pritam, Tis Moorat Balehaaree” (He, the God, who transforms the woman into a man and the men into women, says Kabeer, is beloved of the Saints. I am a sacrifice to His image). (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, page 1252).

There is another ridiculous argument against ‘Khande Da Amrit’ to women. The writers says that if a woman remains a woman, remains a wife and becomes pregnant as usual even after taking ‘Khande Da Amrit’, then what is the use of ‘Khande Da Amrit’.

A man remains a man and a woman remains a woman even after taking ‘Khande Da Amrit’. If ‘Khande Da Amrit’ does not transform a male into a woman, then how can someone expect a woman to be transformed into a man?

If we follow the Gurbani, ‘Khande Da Amrit’ can transform us into angels without any delay, “Balehaaree Gur Aapne, Diohaarhee Sad Vaar. Jin Maanas Te Devte Keeye, Karat Naa Laagee Vaar” (I am a sacrifice to my Guru a hundred times a day, who made angels out of human beings, and it was done without any delay). (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, page 462).

[Aparadhee]

alot of things happen at hazoor sahib that frankly just cant be defended, though someone will always come up with a pathetic excuse to carry on with this manmat.

[Degh-Tegh-Fathe]

alot of things happen at hazoor sahib that frankly just cant be defended, though someone will always come up with a pathetic excuse to carry on with this manmat.

agreed first time im hearing that, seems reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly messed up