Veechar

[Singh-in-Welling]

Jasbir Kaur using Hardeesh Singh's account

Can someone do detailed Veechar on the following Shabadh please?

sUhI mhlw 4 ]

Soohee, Fourth Mehla:

hir hir krih inq kptu kmwvih ihrdw suDu n hoeI ]

One who chants the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, while constantly practicing deception, shall never become pure of heart.

Anidnu krm krih bhuqyry supnY suKu n hoeI ]1]

He may perform all sorts of rituals, night and day, but he shall not find peace, even in dreams. ||1||

igAwnI gur ibnu Bgiq n hoeI ]

O wise ones, without the Guru, there is no devotional worship.

korY rMgu kdy n cVY jy locY sBu koeI ]1] rhwau ]The untreated cloth does not take up the dye, no matter how much everyone may wish it. ||1||Pause||

jpu qp sMjm vrq kry pUjw mnmuK rogu n jweI ]The self-willed manmukh may perform chants, meditations, austere self-discipline, fasts and devotional worship, but his sickness does not go away.

AMqir rogu mhw AiBmwnw dUjY Bwie KuAweI ]2]

Deep within him is the sickness of excessive egotism; in the love of duality he is ruined. ||2||

bwhir ByK bhuqu cqurweI mnUAw dh idis DwvY ]

Outwardly, he wears religious robes and he is very clever, but his mind wanders in the ten directions.

haumY ibAwipAw sbdu n cIn@Y iPir iPir jUnI AwvY ]3]

Engrossed in ego, he does not remember the Word of the Shabad; over and over again, he is reincarnated. ||3||

nwnk ndir kry so bUJY so jnu nwmu iDAwey ]

O Nanak, that mortal who is blessed with the Lord's Glance of Grace, understands Him; that humble servant meditates on the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

gur prswdI eyko bUJY eyksu mwih smwey ]4]4]

By Guru's Grace, he understands the One Lord, and is absorbed into the One Lord. ||4||4||

Its pretty clear what it says but I would appreicate a Thukh by Thukh explanation. Thanks

[kaur_khalistani_lioness]

no one?

great shabd Jasbir Kaur panji!=)

since no one has replied yet how about you start the vicchar?=) what does ur mind/heart/soul/inner voice/instincts/... tell you?

this shabd talks about so many things and my understanding is very limited(narrow minded)...to expand it a lil..im looking fwd to reading yours and sangats vicchars..

[.- Prabhjot Singh -.]

Wjkk Wjkf Ji

My Tuchh budhhi says this, please pardon me if im wrong!

hir hir krih inq kptu kmwvih ihrdw suDu n hoeI ]

A person who follows his Mann (manmukh) recite His name just for the sake of reciting and earn paap by doing deceits and betrayals in parallel must never expect to have their hearts purified. I remember an old saying 'Shakal Mommana Khatoot Kaffaran' - face of a lamb, character of a non-believer. A person who expects that others believe his/her heart is pure cannot be more wrong, because deception and naam dont stay at the same place.

Anidnu krm krih bhuqyry supnY suKu n hoeI ]1][

Such people keep performing all the known rituals day and night, but they dont get any spiritual joy even in their dreams, let alone in concious state. One can do lots of seva, daan, etc. in the hope it would bear some fruit, but its all worthless if one keeps all the jealousy, deception, manipulations in his heart. Seva/rituals/pilgrimages are not going to be of any use if one is not able to get rid of evil feelings from the heart.

igAwnI gur ibnu Bgiq n hoeI ]

Till the time one does not surrender himself under the feet of the Bhramgyani Guru, one can find the true naam daan. It is only the Guruji, the all wise, that can guide us to the Akal Purakh Waheguru and tell us the ways of doing His worship (bhakti).

korY rMgu kdy n cVY jy locY sBu koeI ]1] rhwau ]

jpu qp sMjm vrq kry pUjw mnmuK rogu n jweI ]

Just like no colour can be dyed on untreated cloth, similarly, no matter how much we cry and beg and plead, the beautiful colour of naam cannot be cast on a untreated heart. That heart can only be treated by Waheguru ji's bhakti, the art of which the Bhramgyani Guruji alone can tell us, that is only if we fall at the Gurujis feet. That person who follow his/her mann (Manmukh) does a lot of mantra jaap, fasts and does a lot of other painful karams, but be assured that such a person is never cured of his spiritual sickness.

AMqir rogu mhw AiBmwnw dUjY Bwie KuAweI ]2]

Yet, he/she is not able to cure the diseases arrogance and ego (haume), it remains deep rooted in his/her heart. Lured by maya, he/she remains trapped in this web and away from the right path.

bwhir ByK bhuqu cqurweI mnUAw dh idis DwvY ]

haumY ibAwipAw sbdu n cIn@Y iPir iPir jUnI AwvY ]3]

A person who has got no blessings from the Guruji puts on all sorts of costumes and masks, tries his best to show he/she is clever and wise, but his corrupt heart keeps running in all ten directions. Such person, trapped in ego makes no relation with Guruji's word, and therefore, remains trapped in the cycle of joonis.

nwnk ndir kry so bUJY so jnu nwmu iDAwey ]

gur prswdI eyko bUJY eyksu mwih smwey ]4]4]

But those who are blessed by Waheguru ji, that person gets to understand the right sprititual path, he/she always keeps Waheguru ji's naam in his heart. With Guruji Kirpa, remains submerged in that one Sache Waheguru ji.

Bhull Chull Maaf ji

[besoft]

An excellent post pjs ji.

I shall not be able to give 'tuk' wise comments as there are many inter linked concepts andone can elaborate it further. Following is as per that I have come to understand from the sabad.

ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥

Soohee, Fourth Mehl:

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਤ ਕਪਟੁ ਕਮਾਵਹਿ ਹਿਰਦਾ ਸੁਧੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥

One who chants the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, while constantly practicing deception, shall never become pure of heart.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥

He may perform all sorts of rituals, night and day, but he shall not find peace, even in dreams. ||1||

ਗਿਆਨੀ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥

O wise ones, without the Guru, there is no devotional worship.

ਕੋਰੈ ਰੰਗੁ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਚੜੈ ਜੇ ਲੋਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

The untreated cloth does not take up the dye, no matter how much everyone may wish it. ||1||Pause||

In essence: Oh Mortal! Remember that without complete surrender to Guru's teachings devotional worship is not possible even if you are lost in worldly entanglements always be in His company and be guided by his eternal words of teachings and seek his blessings,[ The Guru referred to herein is the Akaal Murat ]and get dyed in the color of his love and praise [sift salah]. Practice His name and simran by becoming a 'sachaiara' else it is futile and hypocrisy. How do we attain the state of devotional worship has been explained at many places in bani and one of which is as follows:

ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥

And

ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥

ਜਪੁ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮ ਵਰਤ ਕਰੇ ਪੂਜਾ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਰੋਗੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥

The self-willed manmukh may perform chants, meditations, austere self-discipline, fasts and devotional worship, but his sickness does not go away.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਰੋਗੁ ਮਹਾ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਖੁਆਈ ॥੨॥

Deep within him is the sickness of excessive egotism; in the love of duality he is ruined. ||2||

In essence: Overcome the duality and egotism /haume and be a Gurmukh as all the actions undertaken by self willed person [manmukh] are of no avail and mind's cleanliness is not obtained.

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਮਨੂਆ ਦਹ ਦਿਸਿ ਧਾਵੈ ॥

Outwardly, he wears religious robes and he is very clever, but his mind wanders in the ten directions.

ਹਉਮੈ ਬਿਆਪਿਆ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੂਨੀ ਆਵੈ ॥੩॥

Engrossed in ego, he does not remember the Word of the Shabad; over and over again, he is reincarnated. ||3||

In essence: If one follows the path as indicated above i.e. cleansing of mind and surrendering oneself to the word of sabad one may overcome the cycle of incarnations [84 lakh joonies]. In Sikhism 'equanimity' has been professed that is to attain the state of a mind that is stable and is not affected by the pairs of 25 opposites e.g pain and pleasure; hot and cold etc,.Ego is a great hinderance in the achievement of this state of mind.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਸੋ ਬੂਝੈ ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਏ ॥

O Nanak, that mortal who is blessed with the Lord's Glance of Grace, understands Him; that humble servant meditates on the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਏਕੋ ਬੂਝੈ ਏਕਸੁ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਏ ॥੪॥੪॥

By Guru's Grace, he understands the One Lord, and is absorbed into the One Lord. ||4||4||

In essence: All this is possible when He casts His glance of grace and one understands His Hukum and remains absorbed in Simran and that is the objective of this life and this is the way to self realization that is also stated to be attainment of the supremus.

I have interpreted it so that the sabad is comprehensible in essence. I do appreciate the efforts of pjs ji and am in total agreement with his views.

Wjkk WjkF

[Singh-in-Welling]

Jasbir Kaur using Hardeesh Singh's account

Great Veechaar! Thanks. Right, in regards to the Shabadh - 'deception' is bascially everything and anything to do with ManMath - So what I would like to know is, what ARE we supposed to be doing? I don't know if you understand when I ask that; let me break it down (please) -

Obviously we simply don't follow what our mind says, So does that mean a Sikh is supposed to just simply Jap'h Naam (Ik Man Ik Chith), do Sevaa, actually put our Gunn's into practice and keep our Rehth? Hohr? Thanks.

[besoft]

Dear friend,

The answer to your question is in the following line:

Kiv Sachiara hoiyay Kiv Kure tute pal.

Hukum Razai chalana Nanak likhya naal.[jap ji]

It is individuals quest as to how should we be a 'Sachiara'. I like this line and so I am quoting it in almost every post. Repetition may, therefore, be pardoned.

Wjkk WJkF

[besoft]

Dear friend,

While undertaking the understanding of bani I have made small notes for self-help.These are divided into the following sub-heads. Some of these may not indicate anything as the sub-heads/headings have been subjective.Kindly ignore the numbering etc.

I have noted down some tuk's from the Granth sahib ji. It has helped me a lot. I do not know how to share these. But I suggest that for a beginner/novice like me it should be very helpful.Pl. let me know as to how to share as these may not be of much interest to the other members of the forum who are well versed with bani.

Warm Regards and Wjkk WjkF

==

0 He is everywhere

01. He is within

01.1 Kalyug

001 No one comes and goes

01a Duality

01b Darshan

01b.1 Life is Drama

01b.2 Deception

02 In the human body

02a Hatred

02a.1 Escape

03 Saint and God : No difference

03a Saint

03a.1 Sikh and guru

03b Sanyasi

03aa God has many Names

03aa1 naam is a treasure

03aa1.a Naam is the only friend

03aa1.1 Meditation On God brings Naam

03aa1.2 Chanting

03aa1.3 Guru's word is Nectar

03aa1.3ab Naam is above evrything

03aa1.3aa Jap tap Sanjam is naam

03aa1.3a Naam is given by God

03aa1.4 Guru Teaching

3aa1.5 Chanting

03aa1.5 What is contemplation of Naam

03aa1.6 Do not leave naam

03aa1.7 He established His naam

03ab Guru Mantra is Naam

03abc.1Naam goes with us

03abc Mool mantra

03 a Only Naam goes with us

03a1.1 Naam is to be understood

03a1.2 None holes purified

03a1.3 We are HIm

03a1 Naam Location

03a2 What is name of lord

03a3 Naam is difficult to pronounce

03a4 Naam is hidden

03a5 How naam obtained

03a6 Namm given

03a6.1 What is naam

03a6.2 Naam is medicine

03a6.3 Naam makes us god

03a6.4 How naam dwells up

03a6.5 Naam brings wisdom

03a6.5.1 Essence of intelligence

03a6.6 spiritual wisdom

03a6.6 .1Virtues

03a6.7 Honest earnings

03a6.8 Sastra and Vedas proclaim to lead life to attain Him

03a6.9 Nine doors

03a7 Yog

03a8 Yoga

03b Meditate

03b.1 Good karmas brings naam

03b1.2 Karma cannot be erased

03b1.3 Karma

03bb How to beathe

03b1 Self descipline

03b.1 Focus on God

03b2 Amritvella

03c Delusion

03D delusion

03E Poise and grace

03F Merits and demerits

03F1 Death

03G Preordained

03h Illusion 1230/31

04 Naam Daan

05 Gyani

05.1 Definition of Lord

05.2 Ram

06 Hurt other

07 Doubts

07.1 How doubts depart

08 Pride

09 Future

001 Envy-anxiety

002 Looking equal

003 God of Gods

004 Maya

005 Companion

006 Dead when alive

007 GuruMantra

008 Faith In God

009 Kindness

0001 Turia

0002 Wah Wah

0003 Will 1239

0004 Nirvaan

0005 Cleverness

0006 Char padarath

0007 Lowest of low

0008 Double edge sword

0009Ego

0009.1 Sohang

00001 Fruitful Moments

00002 Conquering Soul

00002.1 One soul

00003 Brahmin

00004 Un attached

00005 Demons

00006 Mind satisfied

00006.01 Mind is without Shape

00006.1 Without mind control Maya does not die

00006.2 Mind of five elements

00006.3 Mind is pilgrimmage

00007 Guru sabad

00008 God is Boat

00009 Yogi

a Ardas

A1 Cause of coming and going

B His grace

C Be satisfied

D Devotee

E Naam and status

F Servant of lord

G Soul

G1 Supreme Soul

G2 Soul among soul

H Surrender

I Fear of death

J Be happy

K Sahaj

L Sins

L1 sins erased

M Service to Lord

N Fearless

O Bani

Oaxx1.1 Bani In the morning

Oaxx1 Gurbani leads to liberation

Oax1 Bani is Nectar

Oa God helps thru Bani

O1a Bani and word of shabad

O1aa How to reralize Shabad

Oa Bani leads to god

O1Bani leads to word

O2 bani removes egotism

O3 bani is sound current

O4 Shabad is God's word

O3 Shabad of lord

P Mine and yours

Q Chaar Padarath

R Filth

S None is liar

T Kaliyug

U He is only support

V Creation

W Comfort and riches

X poverty

Y One word

Z bani is akath katha

1.Good qualities

1a Truthfulness and Honesty

1a1 Karma

1b Modesty and humility

1.2 Contentment and forgiveness

1.2.1 patience

1.3 Good deeds

1.3.a He is the doer

1.3.1 Without Good deeds wisdom runs away

1.3.1a Be a good student

1.4.1Jap,tap sanjam.

1.4.2 Pain and pleasures -equipoise

1.4.2.1 Whatever has to happen shall happen

1.4.1.1 Merits and demerits: Same

1.4.3 His will

1.4.4.Selfishness

1.4.5 Slandering

1.4.6 Hopes and Desires

1.4.7. Greed

1.4.8. Fear of God

1.4.8.1 Fear of god leads to wisdom

1.4.8.2 Fear of god thru HIS grace

1.4.9 Telling Lies

1.4.10 Truth

1.4.11 Love of Lord

1.4.11.1The Love of the Lord is my silent chanting.

1.4.12 Five passion

1.4.12.1 Sexual pleasure

1.4.13 Human Body

1.4.13.1 Body is the field of Karma

1.4.14 contemplation

2.Mind Brotherhood-Conquer your mind

2.a.1 Shiva and shakti

2.1 Objective of Life

2.1.1 Churning On God

2.2 Supreme status

2.3Guru's Instruiction Restrains the mind

2.4 How we originate

3. Wisdom

E1 Essence of wisdom and Food

F1 Truest wisdom

F2 One who finds lord Keeps quiet

intuitive understanding

Understanding is realisation

4. Humility

5 Good speech

6. Naam simran

6.6. Love of Lord is devotional worship

6.6a True worship

6.6.1 Devotion is Nectar

6.6.2 What is devotional worship'

6.7 Purpose of Life

6.8 Always remember Him

6.9 Biggest charity

6.10 Sangat

6.10.a Sangat is the Boat

6.10.1 Greatest Blessing

7. Faith

7.2 Faith with Guru only

8.Kaam Krodh

8.1 Renounce Kam Krodh

9.Selfless service

10 Detatchment

11.Anger

11.1 Egotism and attatchment

11.2 emotional attachment, egotism, wiskedness

11.2.1 Attachment to pleasure

11.3 egotism is false

11.4 Egotism is false

11.5 Burn desires and egotism

11.6 Pride

12. Guru

12a Guru has the key

12b. Thru Guru Lord dwells in mind

12.1 Guru Is Lord

12.2.4 Guru and Lord

12.2.4a Guru nanak

12.2.5. Without Guru there is darkness

12.2.6 Arguments

12.2.7 detachment

12.2.8 Guru's teaching leads to Lord

12.2.8.1 Guru is intermediary

12.2.9 Sound current