Sad State Of Sikh Panth

[guptveer1469]

The sad state of the panth, nowadays is really making me sick. Believe me or not, I get often headaches worrying about the panth. Now don't tell me to do extra paath for Panth, as I (try to) do it already.

1. Sikhi finishing in Punjab - Dont know about other areas, but my area Doaba, is a VERY MESSED UP area regarding Sikhi. About 70-75% of the "Sikh" youth of Doaba area are Monas. I'm pretty sure if the trend continues, by 2015, about 90-95% of the "Sikh" youth will be MONA.

2. Bhaiya Karni of Punjab - I'm not against Bhaiyas (that would make me a racist), but there migration should be controlled. They started migrating to Punjab in the late 1970s (about 30 years back from now) and have become a strong 10% of the population of whole Punjab. In Ludhiana they make a bigger part, as there appear to be more Bhaiyas in Ludhiana than Punjabis. I'm not asking more strict measures for migration to Punjab, as Bhaiyas have disadvantage to Punjab also. They have pros to like they do much labour etc, but there are many bad Bhaiyas aswell. In my village there were 2 Bhaiyas who were selling drugs to Punjabi Sikh youth. This is the case in many villages. Bhaiyas makes gangs and rob big houses of old lonely ladies in Punjab etc. Because of them, sigarettes have become more "accepted" (before Bhaiyas, Punjabis only were addicted to Sharab and Tobacco).

3. Dushts walking around freely - This bothers me alot. I just can't live with the fact that rapists of our Sikh sisters/mothers are roaming around freely. The killers of our brothers and fathers are living in mansions in Chandigarh and Delhi. The Nindaks of our Gurus, who burnt our Guru Maharaj's saroops are there roaming around and spreading more venomen. KPS Gill, Swarn Ghotna, SS Virk, JF Ribeiro, Surjit Sinh Barnala, Sumedh Saini, Izhar Alam, Gurmit Ram Rahim, Piara Bhaniarawala, Ashutosh Maharaj, Parkash Sinh Badal, Rulda Sinh, etc WHY ARE THEY ALIVE?? Singh Soormey should get back the spirit of Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh, that of Satwant Singh and Beant Singh, that of Sukhdev Singh Sukha and Harjinder Singh Jinda...

4. Jatha-ism in Sikhism (Panth) - All our different MARYADAS, REHITS that are creating schism in Panth. I wont lie, I was once asked a Die-Hard AKJ Singhni, "What are you?", she replied me back that she is "AKJ". Instead of replying :"I am Guru Ji's Singhni" she said that. Many others are the same as her. We should start saying we are Guru Ji's Sikh instead of saying Nihang, AKJ, Taksali, 3HO etc.

5. Disagreements in Panth - Meat issue, Dasam Granth issue, Raagmala Issue, and all other controversial issues that cause problems in Panth, of which other, outside forces take advantage. We should do a big conference at Akal Takht where we will invite 10-10 persons of each viewpoint (pro-Meat and anti-Meat)/(pro-Dasam Granth and anti-Dasam Granth). We will take all prominent persons of each viewpoint and make ONE PANTHIC REHIT MARYADA. I think this is one of the only solutions possible, or else we will keep fighting on these pretty issues for another 150 years! and our real issues are going to get worse by then.

6. Turban ban in Belgium/France

7. Sri Sahib/Kirpan ban in several countries

8. Sikh boys and girls astraying from path of Sikhi in countries like Netherlands, UK (esp Birmingham area), Canada (its getting better, I heard) etc.

9. Punjabi Mafia and Sikh domestic violence problem in Canada

AND MANY MORE ISSUES.

IF I CONTINUE IT WILL TAKE ANOTHER FEW DAYS TO COMPLETE

BHUL CHUK MAAF

WJKK WJKF

[THE WARRIOR]

It would appear when there was a price on our heads life was easier.

[dhan_teri_sikhi]

some good points. We can only do Parchar. In a world where money has become president, this is getting harder by the day.

Manmat is not in only one area like Birmingham it's in everyone. Khalistan can't be made by acting like gangsters on the internet. We should be reading more Gurbani. The Khalistan is in Guru Granth Sahib.

[guptveer1469]

It would appear when there was a price on our heads life was easier.

So true veerji. Atleast then we could do our nitnem with peace, we wouldnt even see one Sikh fighting another.

some good points. We can only do Parchar. In a world where money has become president, this is getting harder by the day.

Manmat is not in only one area like Birmingham it's in everyone. Khalistan can't be made by acting like gangsters on the internet. We should be reading more Gurbani. The Khalistan is in Guru Granth Sahib.

Hanji phenji. But I meant that Birmingham's situation is real bad, as people from there tell me. And some of the people nowadays on internet, are complete ready to punish dushts, but are awaiting a COMPLETE SANT-SIPAHI LEADER, WHO WILL LEAD THEM. So please don't think everybody on net that calls himself Khalistani is some internet warrior or good-for-nothing in real life.

As Sant Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwala sed; "we have many Singh lions, but we are guided by sheep".

Even if we have 1000 Sikh warriors completely ready, we will be nowhere, till we have a NIDDAR SANT SIPAHI like Sant Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale.

And indeed, the solution to most of the problems is PARCHAR.

But why do we keep telling that Sikhism is not a religion that preaches... Why dont those idiots keep saying this, till we are left without any Sikhs. PARCHAR is allowed in Sikhi. If not, then why did Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj visit upto Egypt in the west, Thailand in East, Tibet in North and Sri Lanka in South? Was it for touristic purposes ? NO, it was for preaching the truth - Sikhi. We should get out of that mentality that Sikhism doesnt allow preaching etc.

[Singhson]

The sad state of the panth, nowadays is really making me sick. Believe me or not, I get often headaches worrying about the panth. Now don't tell me to do extra paath for Panth, as I (try to) do it already.

1. Sikhi finishing in Punjab - Dont know about other areas, but my area Doaba, is a VERY MESSED UP area regarding Sikhi. About 70-75% of the "Sikh" youth of Doaba area are Monas. I'm pretty sure if the trend continues, by 2015, about 90-95% of the "Sikh" youth will be MONA.

2. Bhaiya Karni of Punjab - I'm not against Bhaiyas (that would make me a racist), but there migration should be controlled. They started migrating to Punjab in the late 1970s (about 30 years back from now) and have become a strong 10% of the population of whole Punjab. In Ludhiana they make a bigger part, as there appear to be more Bhaiyas in Ludhiana than Punjabis. I'm not asking more strict measures for migration to Punjab, as Bhaiyas have disadvantage to Punjab also. They have pros to like they do much labour etc, but there are many bad Bhaiyas aswell. In my village there were 2 Bhaiyas who were selling drugs to Punjabi Sikh youth. This is the case in many villages. Bhaiyas makes gangs and rob big houses of old lonely ladies in Punjab etc. Because of them, sigarettes have become more "accepted" (before Bhaiyas, Punjabis only were addicted to Sharab and Tobacco).

3. Dushts walking around freely - This bothers me alot. I just can't live with the fact that rapists of our Sikh sisters/mothers are roaming around freely. The killers of our brothers and fathers are living in mansions in Chandigarh and Delhi. The Nindaks of our Gurus, who burnt our Guru Maharaj's saroops are there roaming around and spreading more venomen. KPS Gill, Swarn Ghotna, SS Virk, JF Ribeiro, Surjit Sinh Barnala, Sumedh Saini, Izhar Alam, Gurmit Ram Rahim, Piara Bhaniarawala, Ashutosh Maharaj, Parkash Sinh Badal, Rulda Sinh, etc WHY ARE THEY ALIVE?? Singh Soormey should get back the spirit of Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh, that of Satwant Singh and Beant Singh, that of Sukhdev Singh Sukha and Harjinder Singh Jinda...

4. Jatha-ism in Sikhism (Panth) - All our different MARYADAS, REHITS that are creating schism in Panth. I wont lie, I was once asked a Die-Hard AKJ Singhni, "What are you?", she replied me back that she is "AKJ". Instead of replying :"I am Guru Ji's Singhni" she said that. Many others are the same as her. We should start saying we are Guru Ji's Sikh instead of saying Nihang, AKJ, Taksali, 3HO etc.

5. Disagreements in Panth - Meat issue, Dasam Granth issue, Raagmala Issue, and all other controversial issues that cause problems in Panth, of which other, outside forces take advantage. We should do a big conference at Akal Takht where we will invite 10-10 persons of each viewpoint (pro-Meat and anti-Meat)/(pro-Dasam Granth and anti-Dasam Granth). We will take all prominent persons of each viewpoint and make ONE PANTHIC REHIT MARYADA. I think this is one of the only solutions possible, or else we will keep fighting on these pretty issues for another 150 years! and our real issues are going to get worse by then.

6. Turban ban in Belgium/France

7. Sri Sahib/Kirpan ban in several countries

8. Sikh boys and girls astraying from path of Sikhi in countries like Netherlands, UK (esp Birmingham area), Canada (its getting better, I heard) etc.

9. Punjabi Mafia and Sikh domestic violence problem in Canada

AND MANY MORE ISSUES.

IF I CONTINUE IT WILL TAKE ANOTHER FEW DAYS TO COMPLETE

BHUL CHUK MAAF

WJKK WJKF

Good post. I agree with some of your points.

1) Where are you getting your statistics from? How can you judge the whole of Punjab when you are talking about your own village?

2) I don't think it is all the bayehs fault. Again, just cos this happens in your village, it doesn't mean it happens in all of Punjab. You get good bayeh, and bad bayeh. They do the work that most Punjabi's won't even think about doing. "Strict migration" - Sorry, but you have absolutely no say on matters of a country that you do not live in. You are suggesting segregation on a single group which is wrong. I don't understand how you can say that when Sikhs (and others) in western countries are discriminated against.

3) I agree with you here but corruption is something that will take a long time (probably never) to fix. It is a disease that has affected developing and less developed countries. Why are you expecting these criminals to be dead? - why don't you go and finish these men?

4) 100% agreed here. Sikh faith is being divided into these ridiculous jathas/sects which is worrying.

5) Agree.

6) Didn't the French president say that he'd re-consider the situation? It's not just turbans that are banned, though. Skull caps too if I remember correctly.

7) Although I think the ban is wrong, there are bound to be people that would use the kirpan for the wrong reasons. But what is stopping you from wearing your kirpan at home, and a small kirpan necklace in public?

[Goli Da Vair Sada]

bruv go punjab and see for urself. id go as far as saying 90 percent of sikhs in punjab are moneh and 70 percent of the keshdharis are over 40. u still see many sikhs at harmandir sahib in the evening but thats no big deal. if i went to a gurdwara in scotland id see singhs there. in the homeland of the sikhs u should be able to go to every village and see many keshdharis. i cnt beleive how bad it is in punjab. go to the main cities, u hardly see any keshdharis about.

and atleast the bhaiyeh come to punjab and work unlike the punjabis. go amritsar, alot of the bhaiyeh are keeping there kesh and adopting sikhi too. its the punjabis that are backwards.

[guptveer1469]

The sad state of the panth, nowadays is really making me sick. Believe me or not, I get often headaches worrying about the panth. Now don't tell me to do extra paath for Panth, as I (try to) do it already.

1. Sikhi finishing in Punjab - Dont know about other areas, but my area Doaba, is a VERY MESSED UP area regarding Sikhi. About 70-75% of the "Sikh" youth of Doaba area are Monas. I'm pretty sure if the trend continues, by 2015, about 90-95% of the "Sikh" youth will be MONA.

2. Bhaiya Karni of Punjab - I'm not against Bhaiyas (that would make me a racist), but there migration should be controlled. They started migrating to Punjab in the late 1970s (about 30 years back from now) and have become a strong 10% of the population of whole Punjab. In Ludhiana they make a bigger part, as there appear to be more Bhaiyas in Ludhiana than Punjabis. I'm not asking more strict measures for migration to Punjab, as Bhaiyas have disadvantage to Punjab also. They have pros to like they do much labour etc, but there are many bad Bhaiyas aswell. In my village there were 2 Bhaiyas who were selling drugs to Punjabi Sikh youth. This is the case in many villages. Bhaiyas makes gangs and rob big houses of old lonely ladies in Punjab etc. Because of them, sigarettes have become more "accepted" (before Bhaiyas, Punjabis only were addicted to Sharab and Tobacco).

3. Dushts walking around freely - This bothers me alot. I just can't live with the fact that rapists of our Sikh sisters/mothers are roaming around freely. The killers of our brothers and fathers are living in mansions in Chandigarh and Delhi. The Nindaks of our Gurus, who burnt our Guru Maharaj's saroops are there roaming around and spreading more venomen. KPS Gill, Swarn Ghotna, SS Virk, JF Ribeiro, Surjit Sinh Barnala, Sumedh Saini, Izhar Alam, Gurmit Ram Rahim, Piara Bhaniarawala, Ashutosh Maharaj, Parkash Sinh Badal, Rulda Sinh, etc WHY ARE THEY ALIVE?? Singh Soormey should get back the spirit of Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh, that of Satwant Singh and Beant Singh, that of Sukhdev Singh Sukha and Harjinder Singh Jinda...

4. Jatha-ism in Sikhism (Panth) - All our different MARYADAS, REHITS that are creating schism in Panth. I wont lie, I was once asked a Die-Hard AKJ Singhni, "What are you?", she replied me back that she is "AKJ". Instead of replying :"I am Guru Ji's Singhni" she said that. Many others are the same as her. We should start saying we are Guru Ji's Sikh instead of saying Nihang, AKJ, Taksali, 3HO etc.

5. Disagreements in Panth - Meat issue, Dasam Granth issue, Raagmala Issue, and all other controversial issues that cause problems in Panth, of which other, outside forces take advantage. We should do a big conference at Akal Takht where we will invite 10-10 persons of each viewpoint (pro-Meat and anti-Meat)/(pro-Dasam Granth and anti-Dasam Granth). We will take all prominent persons of each viewpoint and make ONE PANTHIC REHIT MARYADA. I think this is one of the only solutions possible, or else we will keep fighting on these pretty issues for another 150 years! and our real issues are going to get worse by then.

6. Turban ban in Belgium/France

7. Sri Sahib/Kirpan ban in several countries

8. Sikh boys and girls astraying from path of Sikhi in countries like Netherlands, UK (esp Birmingham area), Canada (its getting better, I heard) etc.

9. Punjabi Mafia and Sikh domestic violence problem in Canada

AND MANY MORE ISSUES.

IF I CONTINUE IT WILL TAKE ANOTHER FEW DAYS TO COMPLETE

BHUL CHUK MAAF

WJKK WJKF

Good post. I agree with some of your points.

1) Where are you getting your statistics from? How can you judge the whole of Punjab when you are talking about your own village?

2) I don't think it is all the bayehs fault. Again, just cos this happens in your village, it doesn't mean it happens in all of Punjab. You get good bayeh, and bad bayeh. They do the work that most Punjabi's won't even think about doing. "Strict migration" - Sorry, but you have absolutely no say on matters of a country that you do not live in. You are suggesting segregation on a single group which is wrong. I don't understand how you can say that when Sikhs (and others) in western countries are discriminated against.

3) I agree with you here but corruption is something that will take a long time (probably never) to fix. It is a disease that has affected developing and less developed countries. Why are you expecting these criminals to be dead? - why don't you go and finish these men?

4) 100% agreed here. Sikh faith is being divided into these ridiculous jathas/sects which is worrying.

5) Agree.

6) Didn't the French president say that he'd re-consider the situation? It's not just turbans that are banned, though. Skull caps too if I remember correctly.

7) Although I think the ban is wrong, there are bound to be people that would use the kirpan for the wrong reasons. But what is stopping you from wearing your kirpan at home, and a small kirpan necklace in public?

Veerji, you shouldnt think I just invent stuff.

1. I saw this in with my own eyes. The last time i went there was last year. Before that I went in 2001. By last year, about 60% of my relatives had cut their kesh. Only in all those villages (and believe me I have a REALLY BIG family, my father has 5 bhuas/phuphars and they have children, he has two mamas, my mom too, then me, i have 5 massis/massars, 1 chacha, 2 mammas, 5 bhuas etc = all of them have atleast 2-3 children and live all scattered around Doaba.) So whenever I go, i visit all those villages, some are in Hoshiarpur, others in Kapurthala, others in Nawanshahr, and other in Jalandhar, I see one thing: MORE THNA HALF OF THE KIDS IN SCHOOLS ARE MONAS. I was talking about Doaba, which is one of the 3 major regions of punjab. Altho Malwa is the biggest, but I mean if Doaba is like that, Malwa and Majha would have few of these problems too. And in Doaba its not only monas, but also Hinduism being mixed into Sikhi big time. Now dont ask me how i know this.

2. IT HAPPENS IN MY VILLAGE TOO. But I suppose you allmost never read news, checkout tribuneindia past records and other newspapers when gangs of bhaiyas were busted. I dont say only bhaiyas do, as many Punjabis do to, but I mean bhaiyas are more into drug selling and robbing old/lonely woman. You should read news about Punjab more often. Even if i dont live there, I read Ajit and Tribune India allmost everyday. What you talking about Punjabis? Punjabis cant migrate to western countries like they are going to their in-laws. Youth cut their kesh (altho its not nec, but they do to avoid suspicion etc), they sell/put their lands on mortgage, they sell their mom/sis ornaments. THESE BHAIYAS ARE GIVEN FREE TRAVEL TO PUNJAB BY LALU PRASAD YADAV. CAN U IMAGINE?? THIS IMMIGRATION HAS TO BE CONTROLLED. OR I AM 100% SURE, BY 2015, ABOUT 40% OF PUNJAB WILL CONSIST OF BHAIYAS. AND SOME OF THESE BHAIYAS CONVERT TO SIKHI AND ARE GOOD SIKHS, THEY ARE GOOD. BUT THERE ARE MANY OUT THERE, WHO JUST GROW THEIR KESH AND PUT TURBAN, AND TAKE SIKH NAMES, TO INTEGRATE, WHICH IS BAD. I have nothing against Bhaiyas, but that immigration should be controlled.

3. Veerji, the answer to this will be history by the time I am an adult. :gg:

6. Yes, but turbans are part of our RELIGIOUS IDENTITY. Skull caps can be removed whenever one wants.

7. You are one of those lost Singhs, A KIRPAN WAS GIVEN TO PROTECT THE POOR, NOT JUST FOR SHOWOFF THAT ONE IS AMRITDHARI. HOW WILL YOU DEFEND SOMEONE (AS A SIKH/KHALSA, IT IS YOUR DUTY TO DO SO) IF YOU ARE WEARING A 2 INCH SMALL KIRPAN THAT WONT EVEN QUALIFY AS A NAIL.

Bhul Chukk Maaf

bruv go punjab and see for urself. id go as far as saying 90 percent of sikhs in punjab are moneh and 70 percent of the keshdharis are over 40. u still see many sikhs at harmandir sahib in the evening but thats no big deal. if i went to a gurdwara in scotland id see singhs there. in the homeland of the sikhs u should be able to go to every village and see many keshdharis. i cnt beleive how bad it is in punjab. go to the main cities, u hardly see any keshdharis about.

and atleast the bhaiyeh come to punjab and work unlike the punjabis. go amritsar, alot of the bhaiyeh are keeping there kesh and adopting sikhi too. its the punjabis that are backwards.

Hanji veerji.

Many bhaiyas are wrong tho. Some bhaiyas just keep their kesh and sikh names to get place in schools (I met 2 such fellows near Phagwara). The proper ones are very good

But still, we should control the Bhaiya karni of Punjab, or not? You want Punjab to become Bihar by 2020?

[guptveer1469]

Khalsa Ji, look what happened. I just answered dhan_teri_sikhi's "arguments". He saw them, and not being able to bear that he didnt make sense (kind of), he sent me a pm stating that I am a RSS Agent. How is this possible? If i was RSS Agent, why would i care about the panth??

This is how low our "Singhs" can go to bring others down, that too IN HAUMAI.

[Goli Da Vair Sada]

nah no one should be controlled from coming into punjab. its not wrong that bhaiyeh are lying to get into schools, they deserve education, the system is wrong if it saysthat only sikhs can be educated in schools.

the problems not the bhaiyeh, the problem is that there is no parchar. none. pick any village in punjab and go to the gurdwara. theres no parchar done. if there was parchar being done every1 would be sikh. you cant hide from the truth infront of you. if there was real parchar done in punjab ordinary punjabis wud still be sikhs and it wudnt matter how many bhaiyeh came into punjab cus the majority would always be sikh. this should be a free world where every1 has opportunity to make a good life for themselves including the bhaiyeh. our parents who came from punjab wer in same positions as them in there time. the problem is with the lack of sikh parcahr and the fact that the govt doesnt allow it to be done. punjab is in a chokehold and sikhs are to busy filling there pockets to care.

[guptveer1469]

nah no one should be controlled from coming into punjab. its not wrong that bhaiyeh are lying to get into schools, they deserve education, the system is wrong if it saysthat only sikhs can be educated in schools.

the problems not the bhaiyeh, the problem is that there is no parchar. none. pick any village in punjab and go to the gurdwara. theres no parchar done. if there was parchar being done every1 would be sikh. you cant hide from the truth infront of you. if there was real parchar done in punjab ordinary punjabis wud still be sikhs and it wudnt matter how many bhaiyeh came into punjab cus the majority would always be sikh. this should be a free world where every1 has opportunity to make a good life for themselves including the bhaiyeh. our parents who came from punjab wer in same positions as them in there time. the problem is with the lack of sikh parcahr and the fact that the govt doesnt allow it to be done. punjab is in a chokehold and sikhs are to busy filling there pockets to care.

Hanji veerji,

you are right to an big extent.. thanks for sharing that point of view

Veerji, i badly want to do parchar in Punjab.. I jus am awaiting the day i finish high school and can begin preaching Sikhi in punjab and other parts of the world... even tho im moorakh, i do ardaas everyday to bless me with atleast something like 0.01% of the gyan brahmgyanis have.. are there any other singhs here who would want to do parchar (nishkam) in the future? (but as full time "job")