ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ

[Bijla Singh]

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥

baedh kathaeb kehahu math jhoot(h)ae jhoot(h)aa jo n bichaarai ||

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false. (Ang 1350)

It is only due to lack of true knowledge about Gurbani that many fail to understand the true meaning behind this line. It is believed by some that the Shabad explains the event that happened in Kanshi where Kabir Ji lived. Hindus and Muslims were debating on religion, talking ill of each other and condemning the religious books of each other. They came to Kabir Ji. To calm them Kabir Ji gave this sublime counsel "Thinking under the influence of anger, do not call Vedas and Quran false. Try to understand the reality in a peaceful way and then say what you want to."

First of all, the debate may have taken place and Hindus and Muslims may have been calling each other false in anger or blindly but coming to Bhagat Ji for a decision does not seem likely because he was considered an outcaste. He was a low caste and it is illogical to believe Brahmins coming to him for a decision since he did not even have the right to read, listen and touch the Vedas. He had also rejected Quran, hajj, five prayers, fasting and many of the Islamic practices in his own lifetime, which will be highlighted later, so Muslims expecting a decision in favor of Islam from Kabir Ji is foolish on their part. Let’s break the pankti (line) in two parts and discuss each half separately so the readers can understand the meanings better.

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ

baedh kathaeb kehahu math jhoot(h)ae

In interpreting the above pankti (line) words ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ are mistranslated as “do not say” which is false. Gurbani is written according to a set of grammar rules. Word ਕਹਹੁ is plural and a verb in third person which gives instruction to do something. It is similar to words ਜਪਹੁ (meditate) and ਸੁਣਹੁ (listen). In this case, the word ਕਹਹੁ means to call or declare. Word ਮਤ has multiple meanings but in this context it means religions for two reasons. First, if it meant “do not” then the order of words would’ve been reversed and would’ve appeared as ਮਤ ਕਹਹੁ because wherever word ਮਤ means “do not” it appears before the verb. Second, it would go against the principles of Gurmat and contradict not only Gurbani but Bhagat Kabir Ji’s own beliefs. Therefore, the correct meanings are:

ਕਹਹੁ – call

ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ – religions false

Guru Gobind Singh Ji has used the same word to convey the same message.

ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥

Rama, Mohammad, eighteen Puranas (Books of the Hindu faith), and Quran say a lot about their own religions but I do not follow any one of them.

Also notice that the word ਮਤ appears at the end. If it meant “do not” it would’ve appeared before the word ਕਹੈਂ and the meanings would’ve been “do not say”.

Correct interpretation word by word thus becomes:

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ – Vedas and Semitic scriptures

ਕਹਹੁ – call or declare them

ਮਤ – religions

ਝੂਠੇ – false

ਬੇਦਾਂ ਕਤੇਬਾਂ ਦੇ ਮੰਨੇ ਹੋਏ ਰਸਤਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਕਹੋ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਝੂਠੇ ਹਨ

Call the religions preached by Vedas and Semitic scriptures false

Last half pankti (line) is also misinterpreted because it cannot mean “Those who do not contemplate them are false” since it is in singular form. Here is word to word translation:

ਝੂਠਾ - false is he

ਜੋ ਨ - who doesn't

ਬਿਚਾਰੈ - contemplate the truth

Meaning – ਅਤੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਹੀ ਉਹ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਸੱਚ ਦੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਦਾ ।

And false is the person who follows any of these religions and does not contemplate the truth.

Bhai Randhir Singh Ji in his book “Gurmat Gauravta” gives the following interpretation of this line:

ਵੇਦ ਕਤੇਬੀ ਮੱਤ ਹਿੰਦੁਆਂ ਤੇ ਤੁਰਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਮੰਨੇ ਹੋਏ ਇਹ ਸਭ ਝੂਠੇ ਹਨ ਅਤੇ ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਮੱਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਵਿਚਾਰਨਹਾਰੇ ਭੀ ਝੂਠੇ ਹਨ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਉਹ ਸੱਚੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਵਿਚਾਰਦੇ.....

Religions of Vedas and Semitic scriptures are false and their followers are false as well because they do not contemplate the truth. As long as a person does not realize the truth of Gurmat he is false.

Now the question arises: what is the truth? Truth that one should contemplate on is given in the following lines. Discussing the entire Shabad line by line would make things much clearer and leave no doubt that the Shabad rejects both religions, Hinduism and Islam.

ਜਉ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਰਗੀ ਮਾਰੈ ॥੧॥

Addressing the Muslims, Bhagat Ji says: You say that the One Lord is in all and His light shines within everyone then why do you kill a chicken (animal?

ਮੁਲਾਂ ਕਹਹੁ ਨਿਆਉ ਖੁਦਾਈ ॥

O Mullah – tell me if this is justice? You tell others how just Khudah (God) is:

ਤੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

But the doubts of your mind have not been dispelled and you still wander in darkness of ignorance.

Bhagat Ji is questioning Muslims that if they believe in all pervading God then why do they kill His creation (animals) mercilessly since God’s light is also within animals. How is this just to kill God’s creation in His name? Why would God want a human to kill His creation in His name?

ਪਕਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਆਨਿਆ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਕਉ ਬਿਸਮਿਲਿ ਕੀਆ ॥

You seize a living creature, bring it home and kill its body. You read “Bismillah” and kill the animal in Allah’s name.

ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਤ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਹੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਆ ॥੨॥

The light of God that never dies and is pure is everywhere and in the killed animal also. So tell me, what becomes halal by killing it?

ਕਿਆ ਉਜੂ ਪਾਕੁ ਕੀਆ ਮੁਹੁ ਧੋਇਆ ਕਿਆ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਲਾਇਆ ॥

What good is to wash your face and bow your head in the mosque and what good are your purifications?

ਜਉ ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਕਪਟੁ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਹੁ ਕਿਆ ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥੩॥

What good are your prayers or your pilgrimage to Mecca? Your heart is full of hypocrisy.

Bhagat Ji calls Muslims hypocrites because on one hand they call themselves religious by washing their faces, going to mosque and hajj and on the other hand they kill animals, which is an act of a butcher. In other words, a merciless person cannot be a true religious person.

ਤੂੰ ਨਾਪਾਕੁ ਪਾਕੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝਿਆ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਮਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥

You are impure; you do not understand the Pure Lord. You do not know realize the truth.

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਤੇ ਚੂਕਾ ਦੋਜਕ ਸਿਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੪॥

Says Kabeer, you have missed out on paradise (merciful living); your mind is set on hell (satanic acts such as killing).

In brief, Bhagat Ji says that God is not pleased by physical purifications, going to mosque and hajj and killing animals. It is clear that Bhagat Ji rejects Islam and its hypocritical practices. To further prove that Bhagat Ji rejected Islam we give some quotes specifically from his own Bani and few from rest of Gurbani.

ਵਰਤ ਨ ਰਹਉ ਨ ਮਹ ਰਮਦਾਨਾ ॥…ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਉ ਨ ਤੀਰਥ ਪੂਜਾ ॥…ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਉ ਨ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਉ ॥…ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥ ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਰਾਨ ॥੪॥

I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan…I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines….I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers….I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. (Ang 1136)

ਸਕਤਿ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਕਰਿ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕਰੀਐ ਮੈ ਨ ਬਦਉਗਾ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਜਉ ਰੇ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਮੋਹਿ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਕਰੈਗਾ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਕਟਿ ਜਾਈ ॥੨॥ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕੀਏ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਜੇ ਹੋਇਗਾ ਅਉਰਤ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੀਐ ॥ ਅਰਧ ਸਰੀਰੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਛੋਡੈ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਹੀ ਰਹੀਐ ॥੩॥ ਛਾਡਿ ਕਤੇਬ ਰਾਮੁ ਭਜੁ ਬਉਰੇ ਜੁਲਮ ਕਰਤ ਹੈ ਭਾਰੀ ॥ ਕਬੀਰੈ ਪਕਰੀ ਟੇਕ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਤੁਰਕ ਰਹੇ ਪਚਿਹਾਰੀ ॥੪॥੮॥

Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny. If God wished me to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself. ||2|| If circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman? She is the other half of a man's body, and she does not leave him, so he remains a Hindu. ||3|| Give up your holy books (Quran and Hadiths), and remember the Lord, you fool, and stop oppressing others so badly. Kabeer has grasped hold of the Lord's Support, and the Muslims have have been lost in hypocrisy. ||4||8|| (Ang 477)

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਇਫਤਰਾ ਭਾਈ ਦਿਲ ਕਾ ਫਿਕਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

The Vedas and the Scriptures are only make-believe, O Siblings of Destiny; they do not relieve the anxiety of the heart. (Ang 727)

ਹਮਰਾ ਝਗਰਾ ਰਹਾ ਨ ਕੋਊ ॥ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਛਾਡੇ ਦੋਊ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

I have no quarrel with anyone. I have abandoned both the Pandits, the Hindu religious scholars, and the Mullahs, the Muslim priests. ||1||Pause|| (Ang 1158)

ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਜੋ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੀਆ ॥ ਛਾਡਿ ਚਲੇ ਹਮ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਲੀਆ ॥੩॥

Whatever the Pandits and Mullahs have written, I reject; I do not accept any of it. ||3|| (Ang 1159)

ਅਲਹੁ ਏਕੁ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਬਸਤੁ ਹੈ ਅਵਰੁ ਮੁਲਖੁ ਕਿਸੁ ਕੇਰਾ ॥ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ਦੁਹ ਮਹਿ ਤਤੁ ਨ ਹੇਰਾ ॥੧॥

If the Lord Allah lives only in the mosque, then to whom does the rest of the world belong? According to the Hindus, the Lord's Name abides in the idol, but there is no truth in either of these claims. ||1|| (Ang 1349)

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨ ਗਿਆਸ ਕਰਹਿ ਚਉਬੀਸਾ ਕਾਜੀ ਮਹ ਰਮਜਾਨਾ ॥ ਗਿਆਰਹ ਮਾਸ ਪਾਸ ਕੈ ਰਾਖੇ ਏਕੈ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਧਾਨਾ ॥੩॥ ਕਹਾ ਉਡੀਸੇ ਮਜਨੁ ਕੀਆ ਕਿਆ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਨਾਂਏਂ ॥ ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਕਪਟੁ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰੈ ਕਿਆ ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਂਏਂ ॥੪॥

The Brahmins observe twenty-four fasts during the year, and the Muslims fast during the month of Ramadaan. The Muslims set aside eleven months, and claim that the treasure is only in the one month. ||3|| What is the use of bathing at Orissa? Why do the Muslims bow their heads in the mosque? If someone has deception in his heart, what good is it for him to utter prayers? And what good is it for him to go on pilgrimage to Mecca? ||4|| (Ang 1349)

ਕਬੀਰ ਹਜ ਕਾਬੇ ਹਉ ਜਾਇ ਥਾ ਆਗੈ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥ ਸਾਂਈ ਮੁਝ ਸਿਉ ਲਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ ਤੁਝੈ ਕਿਨਿ੍ ਫੁਰਮਾਈ ਗਾਇ ॥੧੯੭॥

Kabeer, I was going on a pilgrimage to Mecca, and God met me on the way. He scolded me and asked, ""Who told you that I am only there?""||197|| (Ang 1375)

From the above quotes it is clear that Bhagat Kabir Ji never supported Hinduism or Islam. He rejected both outright.

Note - Above meanings are based on Gurbani viyakaran. I have posted different meanings before but those are not correct because viyakaran does not support them.

[AK47 JATHA LION]

Brilliant Post. Thanx Bijla Singh.

[Trigger Happy]

:whs:

:TH: Thanks Bhai Sahib Jio for the great post. :vaheguru:

[guptveer1469]

Great post, as usual. =)

[xHarinder_singh]

Great post, as usual. =)

I second that.

[sunny_love_kirtan]

which mahapurkh explained you this meaning veer ji?

I have no problem with anything as i dnt knw anything so deeply but i just listen to gyani thakur singh ji's katha for explanation of gurbani all the time but gyani ji has different view. Also Gyani ji belongs to taksal and were in contact of Baba Thakur Singh ji and he has many sources by BABA GURBACHAN SINGH JI KHALSA for all his kathas.

taksal is the most trustful jathebandhi for gurbani meanings and they have vast knowledge of all grammar.

here is the audio file by SANT GYANI BABA GURBACHAN SINGH JI KHALSA http://www.gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/04...0Taksal)....mp3

HERE IS THE AUDIO FILE BY GYANI THAKUR SINGH JI

http://www.gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/04...0-Pankti-05.mp3

AND it is not true that bhagat kabeer ji was not considered an outcaste. Kabeer belonged to JULAHA ( one who make cloth ) and when everyone knew that kabeer ji have attained a high awastha then no one was treating him like that. kabeer ji also had a langar at his house and everybody came to eat langar.

also kabeer ji was a high respected person as kabeer ji says

kbIr nw hm kIAw n krihgy nw kir skY srIru ]

ikAw jwnau ikCu hir kIAw BieE kbIru kbIru ]62]

kabeer naa ham keeaa n karehigae naa kar sakai sareer |

kiaa jaano kish har keeaa bhaeiou kabeer kabeer |62|

Kabeer, I have not done anything; I shall not do anything; my body cannot do anything.

I do not know what the Lord has done, but the call has gone out: ""Kabeer, Kabeer.""||62||

I you listen to the katha of jap ji sahib just from starting , gyani thakur singh ji took many hours to explain moolmantar and all the micro grammar in it. So we cant say that Gyani ji has no knowledge about grammar.

I am again saying that i really dnt knw any thing but i juz bring the think of my mind before all of you. lets see what else can help us understanding the real meaning.

[Trigger Happy]

Here's the correct audio file of Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale for clarification bhai sahib jio.

http://www.gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/04...0Taksal)....mp3

Still a great original post nonetheless allowing for the further understanding of Kabeer Ji's Bani.

[Bijla Singh]

Taksal does meanings of this shabad differently and I have already listened to what they have to say. There were some grammar rules known to Sikh scholars prior to Prof. Sahib Singh but many believed that Gurbani was not written according to viyakaran. Even today many taksalis reject viyakaran. Explaining one word and its grammar is much different than doing aarths entirely according to viyakaran. Taksal is a source of knowledge and there is no doubt about that but if aarths contradict Gurbani then we cannot accept them. Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji and Giani Thakur Singh both do the same meanings but I have noticed one difference. Sant Ji interprets word ਕਹਹੁ differently than Giani Ji. If we accept their interpretation then we must also accept that Gurbani contradicts itself. Gurbani rejects Vedas outright as well as Quran. Guru Sahib rejected both faiths and Bhagat Ji did not follow Hinduism or Islam. Taksal is not the only source and is bound to make (unintentional) mistakes. I humbly disagree with their interpretation of the first pankti. Bhai Randhir Singh’s interpretation is much better though not 100% correct. When I meet Giani Ji and other katha vaachaks I would surely ask them questions for veechar.

Why the Vedas shouldn’t be called false when these very books were responsible for enslaving the entire Indian population for centuries? They have no Naam and are full of blind rituals. Why the Quran shouldn’t be called false for preaching hajj, fasting, circumcision, inequality and intolerance which are rejected in Gurbani? Kabir Ji rejects Islamic practice of halal is the very next pankti then how can he say that Quran shouldn’t be called false? He has rejected both in many Shabads which I have quoted in my first post. Could Bhagat Ji contradict himself and could Guru Sahib include contradictory message in Gurbani? I do not think so. You can believe whatever you want. Guru Rakha

[sunny_love_kirtan]

Here's the correct audio file of Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale for clarification bhai sahib jio.

http://www.gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/04...0Taksal)....mp3

Still a great original post nonetheless allowing for the further understanding of Kabeer Ji's Bani.

thanks alot veer ji for correction. I pasted the link of previous panna.

i have also editied my post.

[sunny_love_kirtan]

thanks bijla singh for wonderful reply.

but yes there are contradictions in bani and those all are true and depends on different levels of awastha.