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No one ever said that man is the same as woman. All we say is that man is not higher than woman and woman is not higher than man - our status is equal.

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I disagree! Women are higher than men.

a) have to go through monthly pain, and then 9-month of burden to allow the birth of a child. Then the responsibility of the household: Daughters tend to look after the household with parents; Women are made to live with a strange family after marriage; Wives tend to look after their husbands *and* their kids; As elders of the family they tend to be the wise one who makes the final decisions of the family. Vah What sacrifice you make oh women of this world! Vah.

b)In Anand Kaaraj women have choice to hold palla of husband.. The Man has a duty to offer it no matter what and women have the ultimate choice whather they want to hold it or let go, therefore having the upper hand of marriage (Hence women are behind men during Laavan.. emi ppl who want women to go at front.. samajde nai! but thats a diff story)

c) OK the punchline:

The status given to each...

Women are Princess: Kaur - royalty

Men are Lion: Singh - protectors

Sikhi enforces equality in opportunity rather than status: Mai Bhago as general of army, Singhni's allowed to have the same Khande Batte Da Amrit and have same 5 K's..etc

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"Ham teri dhar suamia mere tu kio manhu bisare."

I take to Your Support, O my Lord and Master; how could You forget me?

"Istari rup cheri ki niai sobh nahî bin bhartare. ||1||"

I am Your beautiful bride, Your servant and slave. I have no nobility without my Husband Lord. ||1||

Note: Must read the punjabi translation for more clarity at

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.g...amp;p=0&k=1

Thanks

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Guest _Singh_

Vaheguroo Ji Ka Khalsaa, Vaheguroo Ji Ki Fateh

lol, Mr Guest. You think by posting that quote means that women are not equal than men then you are mistaken!

In gurbani, Husband lord is VAHEGURU and the bride are ALL OF US, it is not literal!

We live in such a dark age of Kaliyug that we are soo stupid that Vaheguru had to write certain things in terms we would understand. Simple, yet we are still confused.

WAKE UP, WE ARE STILL ASLEEP

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Teachings of Gurbani apply to, both (spirit & body).

Why did Guru Sahib ji give example "Istari rup cheri ki niai" because that is the norm.

In marriage one must lead (husband) other must follow (wife) otherwise there is conflict and breakdown.

Now let me do a Reality Check

1. Women come to Men's household after marriage not the other way around.

2. How many girls own a house ? Do their parents buy or give a house to the couple, guess not !

3. Do parents treat their girl & boy children as equal ? if they say yes, than why don't they give equal share in Assets, savings and expense.

4. How many men let their sisters, mothers, daughters and wives interact with strangers online, whether it's forum, chat, matrimonial, friendship sites etc

5. If you want to be liberal, modern, independant and westernised then why get married as marriage is conservative, traditional, dependant & eastern concept !

6. All the regular guys at Akj.org forum based outside India, got their brides from India. Can anyone ask them or their parents what is wrong with U.S, Canadian, British Amritdhari girls ? You will get your answer.

Mere talk and singing is not good enough.

Learn to understand, handle & absorb Truth which is a High stage and then practice Truthful Living which is even Higher stage as per Sikhi.

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Teachings of Gurbani apply to, both (spirit & body).

Why did Guru Sahib ji give example "Istari rup cheri ki niai" because that is the norm.

In marriage one must lead (husband) other must follow (wife) otherwise there is conflict and breakdown.

Now let me do a Reality Check

1. Women come to Men's household after marriage not the other way around.

2. How many girls own a house ? Do their parents buy or give a house to the couple, guess not !

3. Do parents treat their girl & boy children as equal ? if they say yes, than why don't they give equal share in Assets, savings and expense.

4. How many men let their sisters, mothers, daughters and wives interact with strangers online, whether it's forum, chat, matrimonial, friendship sites etc

5. If you want to be liberal, modern, independant and westernised then why get married as marriage is conservative, traditional, dependant & eastern concept !

6. All the regular guys at Akj.org forum based outside India, got their brides from India. Can anyone ask them or their parents what is wrong with U.S, Canadian, British Amritdhari girls ? You will get your answer.

Mere talk and singing is not good enough.

Learn to understand, handle & absorb Truth which is a High stage and then practice Truthful Living which is even Higher stage as per Sikhi.

Just because something was the norm 500 years ago, doesn't make it the norm today. Don't confuse the differences between culture and religion... Sikhi places women equal to men with regards to social/spiritual status... punjabi culture places men ahead of women. Gender roles about who works, who stays home with the kids has nothing to do with Sikhi. It is not necessary that the man must "be higher" than the woman as you put it otherwise conflict develops: what is important is both individuals understand what they are getting themselves into and COMPROMISE and to support each other and their goals.

The view point that men are superior to women is exactly the reason the foundations of sikhi were laid, to bring forth the idea that God does not investigate your genitalia when blessing you. To think otherwise is foolish.

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Everyone here needs to read a sociology book. It explains how we decide what is norm, how we are shaped....do we even have a gender? Who decides what our roles are? Does a 6 year old kid know they are male or female....where do they learn this from....why do some people not feel feminine or masculine....what does media, social expectations have to play in this? Its very deep but extremely thought provoking....combine that with behaviours, conditioning and learned behaviour studies...it basically becomes very interesting.

The end conclusion is that there is no female or male. Speaking from a Sikhi perspective everything is an illusion as we live in an outer shell aka as our bodies. Our soul however has no gender. We are neither female nor male...how we live our life is up to us.

Be the captain of your own ship!

Also in regards to the original quote. The worst form of inequality, Aristotle argued, is to try to make unequal things equal. He held instead that "equals ought to have equality" and recalled the retort of the lions, in the fable of Antisthenes...where hares argueed they could do the job of lions...but hares do not have claws etc so what he was referring to was to equality gone wild...he did not however every advocate discrimination which is in the context that the original poster has used the phrase.

To expand further aristotle's quote was saying do not say things are equal if it is to the discrimination of another. For instance women olympic runners can run faster than the men on sikhsangat. Similarly some of the world's best cooks are men and can cook better than most of the world's women. So equality is not making everything the same....some women are going to be better than some men and some men are going to be better than some women. Everything is based on individuals. Its your own determination and ambition...along with of course the blessings of the Almighty which decide who and what you become. Do not discriminate against someone based on their gender.

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Again a brilliant thread : ) ... I'll do the explaining too...

wo + man = woman , so yeah they are not equal ... man was happy before the 'wo(es)' came.

lol... :lol:

And yet MAN still depends on these WO(es) to come into this beautiful world...*sigh*

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Guest _Tubelight_

Woman, can't live with them, can't live without them

You are damned if you do, and you are damned if you don't

Women are like a drug, once you get hooked then it's hard to get off !! Even if someone can get off, they miss being high! :o

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