Learning To Forgive.

[ranj03]

Hi there,

I feel quite guilty on talking about a personal dilema when the world cries out for help on more important issues, so il keep it brief.

Im quite young, but over the years i have been cutting people out of my life for good, because of reasons where i felt insecure in the friendship/relationship.

However, these reasons have become more and more tedious (example, I stopped talking to friends whom i was very close with, becuase of very minor arguments and disagreements!)

How can i find it within me to forgive people and learn to move on? I feel as though the world being in its current state, its hard to believe in anybody and so i've just "trained" myself, to completly cut people out

But i have a feeling this may come back to hurt me, and i think it already has

What guidence from a SIKHI prospective can people suggest? What does Gurbani teach us about trusting people?

Thank you very much

May you go in peace

Ranj

[japmans]

you're right

it's always a difficult time to trust... because the world is maya di khel, and everyone around us (including you, including me) is in it for personal gain.. Let's be honest, if you weren't in it for personal gain, then you wouldn't shut people out over extremely petty issues.

But the ability to forgive is not a skill.. it's a blessing. Some of us have been blessed with the ability to forgive.. some of us have not... Professor Puran Singh says that a true Guru Ka Sikh is that person who acts like the shade of a large tree... anyone seeking solace and shelter away from the "Jagat Jalanda" can come in contact of a true GurSikh, and can be sheltered from Maya di Agg. The shade doesn't prefer any one person over the next... any person desiring that cooling comfort in this desert of life should be able to come to a Gursikh and feel relief

We can only pray and ask for the blessing... And try to make it happen in daily life too.. If you understand that you've cut someone out over ridiculously petty issues, then try to re-open that relationship/friendship/whatever word you use. You may have to ask for forgiveness, because you may have broken a heart, you may have hurt someone deeply... so if you are REALLY looking to become forgiving and open-hearted, ask for that forgiveness, and admit you were wrong, or else prepare for the petty issues to divide your friendships.

Gurbani says innocence is the way to meeting God. (Bhola Bhaey Milay Raghuraaya) The stories of NaamDev, Dhanna Jatt, and many others are repeated numerous times... Dhanna Jatt, you may remember, met God through doing true seva of a rock that a respected Panddit had given him (the Panddit actually had just picked up some random rock from the ground thinking he could fool Dhanna Jatt)...

Certainly you can ONLY trust Guru Granth Sahib Ji... but that being said, Eetai Ootai Ghat Ghat Ghat Ghat... that very same God that you pray to and desire lives in the hearts of every single being... and bhagat Fareed Ji says "If you desire your Beloved, then do not break anyone's heart. ||130||"

This is kinda a round about way to say...ask for the blessing to start forgiving... start opening your heart... learn from your mistakes.. those who have dearly wronged you can still be forgiven, but it doesn't mean you have to be their best friend again.. and maintain innocence in your life..

[ranj03]

you're right

it's always a difficult time to trust... because the world is maya di khel, and everyone around us (including you, including me) is in it for personal gain.. Let's be honest, if you weren't in it for personal gain, then you wouldn't shut people out over extremely petty issues.

But the ability to forgive is not a skill.. it's a blessing. Some of us have been blessed with the ability to forgive.. some of us have not... Professor Puran Singh says that a true Guru Ka Sikh is that person who acts like the shade of a large tree... anyone seeking solace and shelter away from the "Jagat Jalanda" can come in contact of a true GurSikh, and can be sheltered from Maya di Agg. The shade doesn't prefer any one person over the next... any person desiring that cooling comfort in this desert of life should be able to come to a Gursikh and feel relief

We can only pray and ask for the blessing... And try to make it happen in daily life too.. If you understand that you've cut someone out over ridiculously petty issues, then try to re-open that relationship/friendship/whatever word you use. You may have to ask for forgiveness, because you may have broken a heart, you may have hurt someone deeply... so if you are REALLY looking to become forgiving and open-hearted, ask for that forgiveness, and admit you were wrong, or else prepare for the petty issues to divide your friendships.

Gurbani says innocence is the way to meeting God. (Bhola Bhaey Milay Raghuraaya) The stories of NaamDev, Dhanna Jatt, and many others are repeated numerous times... Dhanna Jatt, you may remember, met God through doing true seva of a rock that a respected Panddit had given him (the Panddit actually had just picked up some random rock from the ground thinking he could fool Dhanna Jatt)...

Certainly you can ONLY trust Guru Granth Sahib Ji... but that being said, Eetai Ootai Ghat Ghat Ghat Ghat... that very same God that you pray to and desire lives in the hearts of every single being... and bhagat Fareed Ji says "If you desire your Beloved, then do not break anyone's heart. ||130||"

This is kinda a round about way to say...ask for the blessing to start forgiving... start opening your heart... learn from your mistakes.. those who have dearly wronged you can still be forgiven, but it doesn't mean you have to be their best friend again.. and maintain innocence in your life..

You have truly inspired me. I cannot thank you enough for this post.

I have in the past realised and have been taught that forgivness, like love, is a blessing that we some are given and some are not. Through spiritual and righeous way we are able to seek this tool, that will give us help fix certain aspects of our lives.

But there is one point that i wish to discuss further, you say that cutting people out has personal gain. This is true in the sense that our negative energy and emotions are irradicated, and our lives can become more focused upon righteous things that are important. Do you not agree? Meaning this sense of personal gain is beneficial and wouldnt go against sikhi?

Its just, sometimes when you have so many bad experiences that have accumilated, one gives up.

As you say, the world is maya de kehl, and especially in this day and age we must be both loving and forgiving, but very careful upon who we let into our lives.

Thank you agin.

[Nehmat]

But the ability to forgive is not a skill.. it's a blessing.

We can only pray and ask for the blessing... And try to make it happen in daily life too..

Certainly you can ONLY trust Guru Granth Sahib Ji... but that being said, Eetai Ootai Ghat Ghat Ghat Ghat... that very same God that you pray to and desire lives in the hearts of every single being... and bhagat Fareed Ji says "If you desire your Beloved, then do not break anyone's heart. ||130||"

This is kinda a round about way to say...ask for the blessing to start forgiving... start opening your heart... learn from your mistakes.. those who have dearly wronged you can still be forgiven, but it doesn't mean you have to be their best friend again.. and maintain innocence in your life..

Waheguru

Ranj, I noticed you always post the most intelligent threads. Otherwise, all I see is arguments. Useless, and hurtful debates that lead to a 'nowhere' land.

That post by Japmans was just 'excellent'. Simply beautiful! I'll add on a few things...nothing different from what Japmans said though. =)

When you start seeing the truth in everyone. By truth, I mean GOD. God is the biggest truth itself. Thats why we call him "Sacha" Patshah or "Sat" Guru or "Sat" Kartaar.

When this truth is seen in everyone/everything, you forget the word 'hate'. You just love everything/everyone because you realize that it is a part of you---yourself. The soul in every being is from the same SOURCE---God. And since it is from the same SOURCE, it is the same. Exactly the same. Everything is YOU since the 'soul' is the same. This is really deep. I hope you are understanding this.

When you come to realize this---that in every being's heart GOD himself resides, as our 'Soul'---you will learn to forgive everyone easily. Because how can you stay mad at your own self? ...Same soul, same person---YOU. So forgiven?!

To forgive is the nature of GOD. When we read Gurbani, we slowing start finding out God's nature. You can sum it up and say...It's his nature to LOVE his children.

It's all about LOVE.

And oh yea, thank you for the blessings! Definitely need them with my mum always yelling at me nowdays. She's really upset with me for using the computer. :rolleyes: "It's too much", she says. She's cute! :happy:

[1kAuR1]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I used to be alot like what you described in your post. But spoke to a Taksali Singh regarding forgiveness and he said, If we dont forgive eachother how can we expect God to forgive us. We stand infront of Maharaj daily and ask for forgiveness for all the beant mistakes we make everyday yet we cant forgive someone for one mistake. Why would Maharaj forgive us? After that conversation I used to use the word forgive so many times even for small things you slowly start forgiving. It also helps to control anger, you think that would you expect Maharaj to be angry with you for these mistakes etc. It isn't easy but I think that Japmans and Nehmat have given some good advice.

Thats just my point of view. Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[humkire]

Tear yurself from yurself thats the secret .Guru ji says ''man jeete jag jeet ''.

this mind has a tendency to be introverted ,to get sensitive ,to sulk ,to hate ,

to not forgive etc bcos its chanchal/restless .

Through Guru maharaj kirpa ,this mind becomes as gurbani says ''sundar '' .

In raag todi ,pg 715 ,Gurujee says ''ruro man har rango loreh ''ruro=beautiful ,i.e Gurujee calls this a beautiful mind .Hence if you step up your simran ,read lots gurbani with understanding and do loads ardas ,slowly yur mind will become a beautiful ''khem kusal''(joyful and peaceful mind) which naturally reaches out to others and sees God in others .

Its a natural process yur mind goes through as Gurujee starts touching the inner recesses of yur soul ,mind and consciousness .as Bhai Gurdas says '' Satgur paras parsieh ,kanchan kareh manuur mlinah'',i.e Guru is the alchemist's touchstone which transforms rusty iron to pure shimmering gold . '' Waheguru gurshabad hai ,jap haumai khoee''.

Hence focus on naam ,daan ,ishnan and kirt di kamai karni ,naam jaapna and vand ke shakna and slowly you will become an angel ''balhari gur aapneh ,deoharhi sad // ,jin manas teh devteh kieh ,krt na lagi vaar '' .i.e i am a sacrifice to Gurujee who doesnt take too many days to transform angels out of ordinary human beings .

[japmans]

But there is one point that i wish to discuss further, you say that cutting people out has personal gain. This is true in the sense that our negative energy and emotions are irradicated, and our lives can become more focused upon righteous things that are important. Do you not agree? Meaning this sense of personal gain is beneficial and wouldnt go against sikhi?

Vaheguru ji.

As an aspiring Gursikh, you are "for everyone, and with noone"... the sacred book of the Taoists, the Tao Te Ching, has in one of its earliest passages the following message...(i paraphrase)... forced seperation is not detachment.. detachment is when you are naturally content with "less"... I know the Tao Te Ching isn't our first source of spiritual gyaan, but it's an amazing read. Alone, its teachings are really beautiful, but if you khoj gurbani, it feels like the Tao Te Ching stop short of completiong, because you can combine it with our teachings and make it something really beautiful.

You're right... sometimes there's other people that just don't seem to jive with your Spiritual Self... In those cases, you gotta do what you gotta do, and watch out for your own "aatmic" path. But like I said.. you can forgive someone, and it doesn't mean you have to be close to them again, or have them intimately in your life. What I meant though is that oftentimes we make the mistake of throwing someone out of our life from a purely egotistical standpoint... because we think we're more righteous.. because we mistakenly perceive them to be inferior than us... when there's been serious hurt done, then you forgive but remember... when it's the petty things, you forgive and forget.... that's what i meant, when i said we do it for personal gains.. when we restrain ourselves from people over petty issues, then it's probably more akin to being a selfish deed.. the thing is noone can tell you how to define petty.. what might be petty for me might be a serious issue for you, and vice versa.... note that i differentiate personal gain from spiritual gain... by personal gain, i really mean "feeding your mind".. by spiritual gain you feed your soul..

the post by humkire veer/bhain is very sweet, i like it.. just only thing i'd disagree with is that it carries the connotation that being an introverted mind is a negative thing...

Its just, sometimes when you have so many bad experiences that have accumilated, one gives up.

As you say, the world is maya de kehl, and especially in this day and age we must be both loving and forgiving, but very careful upon who we let into our lives.

Thank you agin.

You're right.. it's tough.. I know i've cut out people from my life to varying extents, and on one side, I'm positive I've done the right thing, but then in the end, the only way you'll find out if it was right or wrong is when your lekha is accounted for by the Big Man, i guess.. Just remember, forgiving doesn't mean you have to be everyone's friend. To me forgiveness just means not letting other people's differences in though/opinion/action affect you negatively... It speaks volume about "khaniyo tikhhe, vaalo nikki, eyt maarag jaana"... cuz you're right.. our world is probably more corrupt and more evil-minded than ever before... and as you said, this is exactly the time where the rest of us have to be that much MORE loving and forgiving... Gurbaani talks alot about being in balance, and I feel like that applies on a personal level and a universal level.. THose of us who have decided to be on the path to God have to make up for the lack of love in other people's hearts by being that much more loving ourselves... It's quite the task, but the true Gursikh is SOOO up for it.

Again, these are all personal opinion and personal experience.... In the end, i could be misinterpreting baani and stuff, so take my ideas with a grain of salt!

[humkire]

By introverted i meant a mind caught up/wrapped up in its own agenda to a point where it loses the fine balance and flexibility between introverting and extroverting according to need and circumstance . A mind filled with the hue and aroma of Naam is a mind that sees nirvaer/nirbhao God within as Guru Ramdas Jee says in raag berari page 719(kaea nagar bst har swami ,har nirbhau nirvaer nirangkara) , is introverted to that extent .However the same mind over flows with a feeling of oneness ,unity and connectedness to everything around as Gurbani says '' jaat meh jot ,jot meh jata''. Such a mind over flows with love .compassion and kindness and mercy to everything around ,i.e extrovertness to that extent .

Another point of correction is that the detachment of taoism ,if you research into it is a detachment involving self effort .Read PARASPRASNA by kapur singh for deeper insight into this issue .The detachment in gurmat is a God given gift that develops slowly as a gursikh dwells on Gurbani and his/her relationship to Gurujee .Such a detachment again develops as a fine delicate balance between living in a surrendered attached state to the power and presence of God/Guru within whilst engaging with the world at large in a state of sant sipahiness .

[japmans]

whoops, my bad on the point about detachment.. I didn't pick up on that in the translation I was reading from. I interpreted it using Sikhi philosophy in line with karoh jattan je hoey meharbaana.. make the effort but if guru blesses you, only then will you get the fruit of your labour.. i didn't realize it was a strictly self-effort philosophy.

my apologies, ranj03.

[Dhanasaree]

Dhan Vaheguroo,

what a beautiful thread! thank you all for your piyaar filled posts,,may maharaj jee bless your beautiful souls to continue spreading the love

Dhan Guroo Dhan Guroo Piyare, Dhan Guroo Dhan Guroo Piyare.....