4 Or 5 Takhts

[valli singh]

Good question,

'Panjvan Takht' is a ROLE performed by the collective body of Budha Dal acting as a panthic stabilizing entity through practises such as the convening of Gurmatas, thus this role requires no seperate singular 'jathedhari',

Second point, at that time and historically speaking (as has been elsewhere delineated) the Jathedari of Budha Dal and Sri Akal Takht were and are (by purataan traditions) ONE and the SAME office, and so there is no contradiction.

Thirdly, what written recorded historical source is going to state this?

Sau Sakhi? Prachin Panth Prakash? Navleen Panth Prakash?

Though they speak highly of Nihangs as being the ONLY Khalsa (again historically speaking)

they are not written by Nihangs and only deliver an outsiders perspective of their predominance,

These facts are only borne out in their true richness in the Nihang oral tradtions which are just as valid as Aboriginal oral sources are in modern anthropology,

Thus one can look to Baba Santa Singh's kathas and steeks on Prachin Panth Prakash and Sri Sarbloh Prakash wherein one will find this perspective fully reasoned and enunciated.

[xHarinder_singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sorry to deviate this thread but just picking up on a point made by Harinder Singh. Why was Baba Banda Singh Ji Bahadhur made commander in chief of the Khalsa armies if Bhai Binod Singh Ji was the jathedhar of the Budha Dal and therefore the 'Dal Panth'?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Baba Banda Singh Jee was the commander in chief . Trust me. The history of Sarbloh Granth Jee is also connected to this event I feel. Dont UNDERESTIMATE my intution. Yes, I agree I need more time and SANGAT to make my intutions more accurate and precise.

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"Punj singhs can only do benti to Guru Sahib( as happened during Chamkaur jung when punj singhs did benti to Guru Sahib to leave the fort."

Guru Gobind Singh was commanded by the Punj Pyare to leave Chamkaur Sahib because the benti was refused. Furthermore, when Guru Sahib tested the Punj Pyare concept when he lowered his arrow towards a grave site in respect and was conferred a tankha by the Punj Pyare. So the Punj Pyare had the full authority to command Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

The fifth Takhat is Takhat Damdama Sahib per the Panth. If anyone has a problem with it, take it up with the Akal Takhat Sahib and Takhat Damdama Sahib. Jathedars of the 5 Takhats do not have the name of the Buddha Dal Jathedar in that list.

Damdami Taksal is an institution started by Guru Sahib by historical accounts. It's a school, which teaches Gurbani Kirtan, Paath, Santhiya. Please provide a statement or historical account (reference) that delineates Damdami Taksal as the police of the Sikh Panth. The only "policing" authority is the Punj Pyare or Sarbat Khalsa.

Buddha Dal was the dal which incorporated aging Nihungs, which were to provide direction to the Tarna Dal and take the seva of looking after Sikh Gurdwarae. Tarna Dal were the younger Nihungs who were active in combat.

[caveman]

Chaar Takhtan, Panjvan Takht Buddha Dal Chheeaanven Crore di kamaaii da dheean dhar ke bolo ji sri Vaheguru.....taken from the budha dal gutka

[xHarinder_singh]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"Punj singhs can only do benti to Guru Sahib( as happened during Chamkaur jung when punj singhs did benti to Guru Sahib to leave the fort."

Guru Gobind Singh was commanded by the Punj Pyare to leave Chamkaur Sahib because the benti was refused. Furthermore, when Guru Sahib tested the Punj Pyare concept when he lowered his arrow towards a grave site in respect and was conferred a tankha by the Punj Pyare. So the Punj Pyare had the full authority to command Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

The fifth Takhat is Takhat Damdama Sahib per the Panth. If anyone has a problem with it, take it up with the Akal Takhat Sahib and Takhat Damdama Sahib. Jathedars of the 5 Takhats do not have the name of the Buddha Dal Jathedar in that list.

Damdami Taksal is an institution started by Guru Sahib by historical accounts. It's a school, which teaches Gurbani Kirtan, Paath, Santhiya. Please provide a statement or historical account (reference) that delineates Damdami Taksal as the police of the Sikh Panth. The only "policing" authority is the Punj Pyare or Sarbat Khalsa.

Buddha Dal was the dal which incorporated aging Nihungs, which were to provide direction to the Tarna Dal and take the seva of looking after Sikh Gurdwarae. Tarna Dal were the younger Nihungs who were active in combat.

WATCH OUT THE WORDS U USE. Otherwise, CHITTAR PAINNE TERE.

Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaaj were 10th Nanak i e Satguru jee and at the same time, Dashmesh Pita were the COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE ARMY. The punj singhs DID NOT COMMAND Guru Sahib. It was a more of benti that "Guru jee u told us that if 5 singhs will say something u will agree. so please Guru jee, U are our everything, U are our father, mother, U are the very life of our soul, its our benti that please please Guru Jee leave this fort and let us fight these cowards who are in lakhs are attacking a handful of singhs"

Regarding the lowering of arrow sakhi, that was a test(sikhiyaa) by the 10th Nanak (as commander in chief of the khalsa army) that whether , the punj singhs will be able to correct/even hukam a commander-in-chief.

[xHarinder_singh]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"Punj singhs can only do benti to Guru Sahib( as happened during Chamkaur jung when punj singhs did benti to Guru Sahib to leave the fort."

Guru Gobind Singh was commanded by the Punj Pyare to leave Chamkaur Sahib because the benti was refused. Furthermore, when Guru Sahib tested the Punj Pyare concept when he lowered his arrow towards a grave site in respect and was conferred a tankha by the Punj Pyare. So the Punj Pyare had the full authority to command Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

The fifth Takhat is Takhat Damdama Sahib per the Panth. If anyone has a problem with it, take it up with the Akal Takhat Sahib and Takhat Damdama Sahib. Jathedars of the 5 Takhats do not have the name of the Buddha Dal Jathedar in that list.

Damdami Taksal is an institution started by Guru Sahib by historical accounts. It's a school, which teaches Gurbani Kirtan, Paath, Santhiya. Please provide a statement or historical account (reference) that delineates Damdami Taksal as the police of the Sikh Panth. The only "policing" authority is the Punj Pyare or Sarbat Khalsa.

Buddha Dal was the dal which incorporated aging Nihungs, which were to provide direction to the Tarna Dal and take the seva of looking after Sikh Gurdwarae. Tarna Dal were the younger Nihungs who were active in combat.

It is a SAMPARDAA and not just an institute.

Can u imagine a person who is the head of the school of semantics, Harvard university, USA and at the same time, the same person is a top general in US army ????

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

See below.

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"WATCH OUT THE WORDS U USE. Otherwise, CHITTAR PAINNE TERE."

First of all, I am probably several years older than you. So learn some respect in talking to those older than you. Next, I am your Sikh brother, so another reason to speak respectfully. I could not care if you are a Nihung, the bachan of Guru Sahib are binding to you as well to speak sweetly. Do not for a moment think that your Banaa and Shastar are in any way a free pass to threaten/harass/verbally abuse anyone. I say this as your elder brother.

"beear bolai meet(h)ulee bhaaee saach kehai pir bhaae ||

That soul-bride, who talks sweetly and speaks the Truth, O Siblings of Destiny, becomes pleasing to her Husband Lord. " - 636.

Next, go read history and stop making up your own. Find me a reference that says that Guru Sahib was requested and not commanded. Guru Gobind Singh Ji submitted to the superiority of the Punj Pyare Vaisakhi of 1699, when he kneeled in front of the Punj Pyare and begged for Amrit. If he was superior to the Punj Pyare, why would he do so?

So I am eagerly awaiting your historical references.

The word Institution has connotations outside of just education, i.e. the institution of marriage. Even organizations which have been doing a service for a long time can be considered "institutions" in their respective field of service. Just an FYI.

http://damdamitaksaal.org/index.php?option...1&Itemid=57

You may want to read the link from the official Damdami Taksal as to what they consider themselves (short summary: educational institution). Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Ji was taught santhiya from Guru Sahib himself and headed the Damdami Taksal. He also commanded Sikh forces in battle. It is the concept of Sant Siphai. Sikhs are not one or the other, they are supposed to be both, hence why Chardi-Kalaa Sikhs are both gyanis and faujis...they don't ignore either aspect of Sikhi.

[Jujhar Singh]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"Punj singhs can only do benti to Guru Sahib( as happened during Chamkaur jung when punj singhs did benti to Guru Sahib to leave the fort."

Guru Gobind Singh was commanded by the Punj Pyare to leave Chamkaur Sahib because the benti was refused. Furthermore, when Guru Sahib tested the Punj Pyare concept when he lowered his arrow towards a grave site in respect and was conferred a tankha by the Punj Pyare. So the Punj Pyare had the full authority to command Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

This is utter rubbish, how can panj singh give tankha to satguru ji?

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"This is utter rubbish, how can panj singh give tankha to satguru ji? "

Please read a Sikh history book or consult a gyani.