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neo4ride
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Hi all...

I want to share with you about Malaysian sikh situation. Generally our unity and among sikh group is stong due to our small figure. However, lately I saw a lot of things that I think should be seen as a long term treat. The issues are as following:-

1. There are a lot of our people that convert to other religion such as christian and muslim. I even met with one of them that actually has been moved the rank and served as priest for catholic church. For me its ok for them to convert and keep it to themself but o convert and become priest and slam your old religion and way of life is totally unacceptable.

2. A lot of converters are also very popular. celebrity like actor, actress, sport celebrity and even professional. Most of them convert even before they married. Which mean we cannot accuse them convert because of marriage.

My main concern now is my girlfriend is leaving me. She have a new boyfriend which is a muslim guy. Our family already try so many way to prevent her do the unthinkable. it seems hard due to Malaysian law which favor muslim.

Please advice. Is there anyone here have the similar problem?

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I'm sick of reading the same and same. In UK, USA, now Malaysia.. Heck... Islam fastest growing religion (with most Sikhs converting to Islam or Christianity) (not that I have anything against Islam or Christianity, its just that we can't control or educate the youth.)

Veerji, all you can do, is start Sikh schools, where children are taught about Sikhi from a young age, more Gurmat Parchaar and Sikhi camps etc

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

WJKK WJKF

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Oh Veerjee, what is the problem here may I ask?

Let all these "sikhs" convert to christianity and Islam etc. for why is it wrong? Just like my soul was; these people are searching for a path that quenches their thirst for God, that really fulfills all their desires; whether this is following an Islamic lifestyle or that of a christian. For there is no right or wrong path, not one higher and not one lower - for they all love God - their main purpose (as God doesn't see "religion").

Surely, you as well as I would prefer a few devotees to sikhi who follow it properly, who live, breathe and experience the naam 24/7; loving God, the Guroos and humanity than to have thousands if not millions of followers, where only handful really follow experience its beauty.

The Khalsa do not need millions of sikhs; for only a few, the true devotees are the real jewel - are the future mothers and fathers of saint soldiers who will continue to spread its love.

For all this is God's play and blessing. Maybe he has future plans - in the near future - for many to give up their clever tricks and follow sikhi? Who knows? only the one who stages this wonderful play does.

We do not need to carry out any missionary work or try and force the youth to follow sikhi. Let their souls experience his will and make up their "own mind" because after all, what is better than 'Inspiration' and 'True Love'?

Take Care. God Bless.

Your Gora Singh. Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

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I have a habit of keeping tabs on these End of Day Cults(Evangelical Christians). I have noticed a trend where a lot of Sikhs seem to be converting to Christianity in Southeast Asia. These churches have plans to evangelize the world. They cannot accept the fact that people are happy outside of Christianity. They want to convert everyone because they believe the world is ending and Jesus Christ is gonna come back and redeem them all. As for the girl going after the Muslim Guy. Bring up the stories from Sikh history. The major story I would begin with is Guru Arjan Dev Ji and how he was boiled alive and hot sand poured on him yet he didnt give up his faith. Guru Tegh Bahadur on the other hand gave his head because he refused to give his faith. The best way is to describe the brutality they suffered. Bhai Mani Singh was chopped up piece by piece and he never thought about giving up his faith. Heres a list of some other MArtyrs and some pictures. Best of luck in your quest. All these people converting out of the faith is the sign of weak leadership on the parts of the Sikhs. These fools that call themselves leaders are the same as the fools that Guru Nanak preached out against. Remember the action lies within in your hands. Sikhism is a religion of the masses. When 2-3 sikhs are present they the right to make decisions for the panth. Invoke different some of these stories about how the different martyrs gave their lives and these fools will recongize what they have lost or are about to lose.

Bhai MAti Das http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bhai_Mati_Das.jpg

Bhai Sati Das http://greatsikhism.com/BhaiSatiDasJi.bmp

Other Sikh Martyrs

http://greatsikhism.com/sikhmartyrs.html

Here are some other sources on addressing challenges to other faiths especially Islam and Christianity.

http://www.sikhingtruth.com/

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I have a habit of keeping tabs on these End of Day Cults(Evangelical Christians). I have noticed a trend where a lot of Sikhs seem to be converting to Christianity in Southeast Asia. These churches have plans to evangelize the world. They cannot accept the fact that people are happy outside of Christianity. They want to convert everyone because they believe the world is ending and Jesus Christ is gonna come back and redeem them all. As for the girl going after the Muslim Guy. Bring up the stories from Sikh history. The major story I would begin with is Guru Arjan Dev Ji and how he was boiled alive and hot sand poured on him yet he didnt give up his faith. Guru Tegh Bahadur on the other hand gave his head because he refused to give his faith. The best way is to describe the brutality they suffered. Bhai Mani Singh was chopped up piece by piece and he never thought about giving up his faith. Heres a list of some other MArtyrs and some pictures. Best of luck in your quest. All these people converting out of the faith is the sign of weak leadership on the parts of the Sikhs. These fools that call themselves leaders are the same as the fools that Guru Nanak preached out against. Remember the action lies within in your hands. Sikhism is a religion of the masses. When 2-3 sikhs are present they the right to make decisions for the panth. Invoke some of these stories about how the different martyrs gave their lives and these fools will recognize what they have lost or are about to lose.

Bhai MAti Das http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bhai_Mati_Das.jpg

Bhai Sati Das http://greatsikhism.com/BhaiSatiDasJi.bmp

Other Sikh Martyrs

http://greatsikhism.com/sikhmartyrs.html

Here are some other sources on addressing challenges to other faiths especially Islam and Christianity.

http://www.sikhingtruth.com/

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Also show her this website its about sikh girls forced to convert to islam and by all means please show her the Personal Stories section its pretty damn bad what some of these girls have been through. Please don't take offense to any of my comments. I mean not make any particular religion look bad or anything for its against the message of our beloved Gurus.

http://www.whyichosesikhism.com/

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Dear all,

Thanks for your support. The most challenging things in Malaysia from my opinion is there are so many sikh that convert to christian or Islam. In the other way, I never see or even heard anyone converting to sikh.

There also a lot of testimonial in internet, email on their live after converting. As for myself, 2 of my cousin has convert as Muslim. They still contact with me and we have a good relationship (first our family not talking to them. But now we have better relationship). And now my gf will convert to Islam as her current bf is muslim boy. 5 of my schoolmate have convert to Christianity and my english teacher is now a respectable Christian Padri in Malaysia. He is the one that keep slamming our religion in his speech that drive me crazy.

I infact always arguing with my cousin and schoolmate about their choices. I told them stories about our gurus, matyr, teaching etc.

They always use the following facts:-

1. Our religion is considered new to their eyes. No as old as Christian, jew, Islam or even Hindu.

2. Our religion not as logic as Christian or Islam

3. My schoolmate told me there are research that show our religion actually is a mix of hindu and Islam. (I fight with him about this and he never bring it up again).

4. If Sikh, Christian, islam, jew and hindu presented to a baby, they will choose Christian, Islam, jew, Sikh after that hindu. The baby will classified us as second last choices.

5. The fact that our religion is blossoming only in india or indian origin (same like hindu). My ex teacher told me that what about chinese, european, arab etc? why sikhsm unable to attract them after 400 years? there must be something wrong. After that he quote a lot of crab from bible to support that his argument is true.

6. And so many more other argument that sometimes I feel a bit logic. Historian also not so fond with us which if we go to history books, there are a lot of victory/stories in India. But we unable to influence the world.

7. When I told them stories about how our matyr and gurus and how mughal done to our matyr, my school mate simply told me that islam is next version of christian. christian is the original. They also quote that sikhs gurus not that good. They said that there are a lot of killing and raping when we rule western india and kashmir. They said that their information is more reliable because its quote from academic and written source. While our source were lack academic based. It is because of our ruthless and our small number in india that english take a lot of sikh as their soldier. If they take muslim, the muslim will attack the english when they strong. If they take hindu, the hindu will attack the english when they strong. They even said that taking sikhs as army is cheaper because they only eat vegetarian food (Muslim eat meat while only brahmin in hindu is vegeterian).

I still young. 23 years old. Hopefully all brother can give me more advice. As for now, our small comunity in Malaysia still strong. I infact get job because my relationship between sikh brother and sister because my education background not that good.

Thank you again brother.

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Sikhi has no need of mass numbers unlike the Abrahamic traditions. If people choose to convert to a different way of thinking that is their prerogative. No Sikh likes to see people leaving Sikhi, but SunnyBondSingh84 don't make throw-away comments like "most Sikhs converting to Islam or Christianity" ... you are better than that. What do you define as most? Do you ignore the huge number of American white people who converted to Sikhi or is this some kind of league table where we are in competition with other faiths?

'Sava lakh se ek larau' - all ask yourself if you are one of those Sikhs? If not, get off this forum and follow Guru Nanak's path and become one. Worry less about everybody else until you are in a position to reach that point. No wonder "some" Sikhs want to leave the faith; look at what great minds amongst us inspire them today! We always look back to historical personalities, but where is today's Banda Singh Bahadur, Nawab Kapur Singh, Hari Singh Nalwa, Maharaj Singh, Kartar Singh Sarabha? They exist alright, but the point was never to point to them to enhance your own standing. We need to become like them ourselves. Before anyone asks, I consider myself willing to fight a hundred thousand and I do my utmost to be true to the path of Guru Nanak every day in my every endeavour.

Neo4ride, no offence mate, but in my opinion this really isn't a 'Panthic' issue. Personally I never did the whole dating thing, nor do I endorse it. But dude, how can your girlfriend have another boyfriend at the same time as you, irrespective of what faith he is? Ditch that two-timer fast, have a bit of self-respect. Don't try and keep her in the faith so she stays with you. Man-up so she wants to stay with you. I'm not sorry if that offends you, you need to hear some tough love. She should think, 'what do I want to go with him for, when I have the embodiment of Guru Gobind Singh here in the flesh?!' You need to ask what you have done to that end.

At the risk of going off-topic: Sikh men who moan about girls not wanting to marry them as Sardars etc. Behave in such a manner as befits the King of Kings, Guru Nanak ad you won't have a problem. Do you possibly think that there is a woman alive who would have turned down the opportunity to marry a great Khalsa, a great man? If they do so today, it is less to do with MTV and Pepsi, more to do with foul-mouthed, disrespecting, common-as-muck Singh's who haven't got a pair.

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Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Bhai Sahib Ji

Would not myself bother arguing with these people. People will “always” have different opinions on these things and it is not in your hands. But here is just a couple of thoughts on the ”facts” they are presenting to you, hopefully to calm your mind:

How old is the religion, what does it matter? Islam, Christianity, Hindu religion, they all seemingly started at some point in time. It is not like they have been there from the beginning in their form, but have been born in the same way as Sikh religion. Now what is the difference? Your great-great-great-…-grandparents lived in their time and now you live in this time. Your outside ways and surroundings are very different naturally. It does not make you right and them wrong or vice versa. You can say Islam and Christianity have older tradition. Then again Sikhi has a newer tradition. It is correcting some of this “old tradition” where it is crooked now or was crooked in the first place. God knows. However, it is still based on the struggles/experiences of all people before. It just did not pop out of nowhere, but has a basis all the way from creation. In Quran there are actually verses saying that both the message and people are replacable with another one, if they are found insufficient, and that the final truth rests with God. I am not aware that there is a verse that is saying this way(Islam) is the final truth forever, although it is a common claim by Muslims. Christians do not much heed to the teachings of their prophet either. As nations they have picked up their bible and the gun and left the inner purity. They have conquered lands, enslaved people and told that if you just accept our Lord you will be saved, no strings attached. This is how distorted these religions are. Anyway, in my opinion, Sikhi has much more refined and evolved thought and answers better to questions in this time than these “old” religions.

Do not know what they mean by logic, but I do not really think these religions(Christianity, Islam) often support logical thinking. They enforce their belief systems on people saying it’s sent from above, but there is no evidence for it in nature and creation. While Guru Sahib has rightly embraced the vastness of life and it’s forms and never claimed monopoly on truth. Guru Sahib is telling everyone to go within yourself and search for the Truth there, and there it shall be revealed. Pretty logical, ain’t it? Guru’s also given instruction on how this world is and how you can best do your journey to God. While in my opinion Islam and Christianity in their crude forms are saying you should not know yourself and look for yourself, but accept what we are saying and that’s how you are saved. Given, it is much easier in this world if you do not have to think for yourself. The world and it’s (God’s) ways are so vast, so manifold, it is hard for us to understand it all. There are things in the world that seemingly contradict each other. The problem is that we assume that we have all the knowledge of the world, while we do not even understand all basic laws of it. So we look into the world according to dreams, pictures and learnings of our minds and shape the world to our liking, but it does not make it a reality. Surely things will look strange. Islam and Christianity tell you that God has given Satan power over this world to do what he will. That is their logic, an explanation of their “chaos”, but it also leads to some very confused and ignorant opinions, I think. At the same time, it is very easy for them to explain things with this idea. The bad is from Satan, good is from God. The blame is on the bad guy and praise is on the good, and the “I” is free. What do we care but do what the priest tells us, never mind thinking if it is right towards everyone or even myself. God is one though, and as far as I am concerned no Satan is coming to enter that realm. Again, if you take a look at the concepts of reincarnation/karams and Hukam, it makes things holistically understandable, and it is also in line with the concepts of natural science and what it tells to us. However it all will look very odd to one with a materialistic view of the world.

On why Sikhi has not attracted people.. We all know that Sikhi is not a converting religion due to it’s truthful nature appreciating Hukam of the Lord. I sure can believe a non-converting religion is a thing unheard of for the people who want to argue you. Also, Sikhi has been relatively secluded and has not had the time to reach people especially with it’s non-aggressive ways. However, I am fairly sure that slowly more and more people will start to embrace Sikhi for it answers questions and ways of this time and has very high ideals not found in any other religion (in my opinion). It is happening all the time and will continue to happen, no doubt. If a million people take up a religion under sword or peer pressure, it does not compare to one people finding religion in their heart.

The battles and victories you refer to have been fought in defense and for peace and freedom of people. It is a prejudice in peoples’ hearts that warriors are fierce conquerors who will spread their rule by sword.

All in all, do not bother arguing with these people, if you can.. If you want to do something, learn and practice your religion more and more and find out for yourself, and also do sangat of friendly Gursikhs instead of these people. It seems like they are taking advantage of your ignorance to boost their own egos. What have these things they tell you do with YOUR soul? They tell you a Sikh is this and that, but their “Sikh” is just a picture, a prejudice in their mind. They never loved the concept "Sikh", so what is the use of listening to useless talk. They will talk like it, but there is no one Sikh, no one Muslim, no one Hindu. There is one God for us all. No one is favourited by Vaheguru for a name tag they put on their chest. There is One Being. "Ik Onkar" “Hukmai Andar Sabh Ko Baahar Hukam Na Koe” Look into yourself and find what you are.

I am sorry, I may have said many wrong things. I do not want to speak ill of any of these religions or people. Wish much strength to you, brother. You will be good.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Oh Veerjee, what is the problem here may I ask?

Let all these "sikhs" convert to christianity and Islam etc. for why is it wrong? Just like my soul was; these people are searching for a path that quenches their thirst for God, that really fulfills all their desires; whether this is following an Islamic lifestyle or that of a christian. For there is no right or wrong path, not one higher and not one lower - for they all love God - their main purpose (as God doesn't see "religion").

Surely, you as well as I would prefer a few devotees to sikhi who follow it properly, who live, breathe and experience the naam 24/7; loving God, the Guroos and humanity than to have thousands if not millions of followers, where only handful really follow experience its beauty.

The Khalsa do not need millions of sikhs; for only a few, the true devotees are the real jewel - are the future mothers and fathers of saint soldiers who will continue to spread its love.

For all this is God's play and blessing. Maybe he has future plans - in the near future - for many to give up their clever tricks and follow sikhi? Who knows? only the one who stages this wonderful play does.

We do not need to carry out any missionary work or try and force the youth to follow sikhi. Let their souls experience his will and make up their "own mind" because after all, what is better than 'Inspiration' and 'True Love'?

Take Care. God Bless.

Your Gora Singh. Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

good post!!

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