Malaysian Sikh

[guptveer1469]

Gora Singh, you miss the point. Its indeed not about numbers, but you seem ignorant of our youth.. You are lucky (so am I) that I found THE path.. But what about others? Who haven't found it? Shouldn't we, as fellow Sikhs, help then? Instead of saying that we should let them convert?

And you are purely wrong about the "missionary" thing. This is a big big mistake in Sikhi, and has been a major mistake from us... Guru Nanak visited upto Italy in the west, Arabic countries, Thailand in east, Sri Lanka in west, and some African countries. They walked hundreds of thousand miles... What was the purpose? Enjoyment? Tourism/Sightseeing? How come there were about 20 million Sikhs in 1539 (at Joti Jot of Guru Nanak), and Sri Lanka was a Sikh country (by 1539). Even if Guru Ji began preaching at their birth, they made 20 million Sikhs in 70 years... Seeing world population of that time, its a quite big contrast to now, where about 0.38 % of world are Sikhs..

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

WJKK WJKF

[Kaljug Singh]

2. Our religion not as logic as Christian or Islam

Um. A young girl called Mary was seduced by a dove (who was actually God) and gave birth to Jesus (who was also actually God) by immaculate conception, then Jesus (God) died in order to save humans from sin which God created in the first place.

Furthermore, Jesus was resurrected after 3 days and, presumably in the form of a zombie, ascended to heaven to be with God (i.e., himself).

Exactly what part of the above is logical?

As regards, Islam - educate yourself, brother. See the following:

http://www.faithfreedom.org

http://www.jihadwatch.org

Regards,

- K.

[kuthaman]

Dear all,

Thanks for your support. The most challenging things in Malaysia from my opinion is there are so many sikh that convert to christian or Islam. In the other way, I never see or even heard anyone converting to sikh.

There also a lot of testimonial in internet, email on their live after converting. As for myself, 2 of my cousin has convert as Muslim. They still contact with me and we have a good relationship (first our family not talking to them. But now we have better relationship). And now my gf will convert to Islam as her current bf is muslim boy. 5 of my schoolmate have convert to Christianity and my english teacher is now a respectable Christian Padri in Malaysia. He is the one that keep slamming our religion in his speech that drive me crazy.

I infact always arguing with my cousin and schoolmate about their choices. I told them stories about our gurus, matyr, teaching etc.

They always use the following facts:-

1. Our religion is considered new to their eyes. No as old as Christian, jew, Islam or even Hindu.

2. Our religion not as logic as Christian or Islam

3. My schoolmate told me there are research that show our religion actually is a mix of hindu and Islam. (I fight with him about this and he never bring it up again).

4. If Sikh, Christian, islam, jew and hindu presented to a baby, they will choose Christian, Islam, jew, Sikh after that hindu. The baby will classified us as second last choices.

5. The fact that our religion is blossoming only in india or indian origin (same like hindu). My ex teacher told me that what about chinese, european, arab etc? why sikhsm unable to attract them after 400 years? there must be something wrong. After that he quote a lot of crab from bible to support that his argument is true.

6. And so many more other argument that sometimes I feel a bit logic. Historian also not so fond with us which if we go to history books, there are a lot of victory/stories in India. But we unable to influence the world.

7. When I told them stories about how our matyr and gurus and how mughal done to our matyr, my school mate simply told me that islam is next version of christian. christian is the original. They also quote that sikhs gurus not that good. They said that there are a lot of killing and raping when we rule western india and kashmir. They said that their information is more reliable because its quote from academic and written source. While our source were lack academic based. It is because of our ruthless and our small number in india that english take a lot of sikh as their soldier. If they take muslim, the muslim will attack the english when they strong. If they take hindu, the hindu will attack the english when they strong. They even said that taking sikhs as army is cheaper because they only eat vegetarian food (Muslim eat meat while only brahmin in hindu is vegeterian).

I still young. 23 years old. Hopefully all brother can give me more advice. As for now, our small comunity in Malaysia still strong. I infact get job because my relationship between sikh brother and sister because my education background not that good.

Thank you again brother.

Let me say this much I personally consider my self a convert. There was a time when I knew nothing about Sikhi or any religion now I have the ability to tear apart any other faith that dares to challenge Sikhism. What demoniation of Christianity is bothering I will give you sources and information that can rip there world view to shreds. PM as soon as possible and I look forward to working with you. Its hard to work within the framework of Sikhi sometimes to refute arguments. In some cases I know more about Islam and Christianity than there believers. There is enough British thinkers that have torn apart Christianity that most people dont just know about. There arguments will bring these Evangelical Fags to there knees.

Gur Fateh,

Kuthaman

[kuthaman]

Dear all,

Thanks for your support. The most challenging things in Malaysia from my opinion is there are so many sikh that convert to christian or Islam. In the other way, I never see or even heard anyone converting to sikh.

There also a lot of testimonial in internet, email on their live after converting. As for myself, 2 of my cousin has convert as Muslim. They still contact with me and we have a good relationship (first our family not talking to them. But now we have better relationship). And now my gf will convert to Islam as her current bf is muslim boy. 5 of my schoolmate have convert to Christianity and my english teacher is now a respectable Christian Padri in Malaysia. He is the one that keep slamming our religion in his speech that drive me crazy.

I infact always arguing with my cousin and schoolmate about their choices. I told them stories about our gurus, matyr, teaching etc.

They always use the following facts:-

1. Our religion is considered new to their eyes. No as old as Christian, jew, Islam or even Hindu.

2. Our religion not as logic as Christian or Islam

3. My schoolmate told me there are research that show our religion actually is a mix of hindu and Islam. (I fight with him about this and he never bring it up again).

4. If Sikh, Christian, islam, jew and hindu presented to a baby, they will choose Christian, Islam, jew, Sikh after that hindu. The baby will classified us as second last choices.

5. The fact that our religion is blossoming only in india or indian origin (same like hindu). My ex teacher told me that what about chinese, european, arab etc? why sikhsm unable to attract them after 400 years? there must be something wrong. After that he quote a lot of crab from bible to support that his argument is true.

6. And so many more other argument that sometimes I feel a bit logic. Historian also not so fond with us which if we go to history books, there are a lot of victory/stories in India. But we unable to influence the world.

7. When I told them stories about how our matyr and gurus and how mughal done to our matyr, my school mate simply told me that islam is next version of christian. christian is the original. They also quote that sikhs gurus not that good. They said that there are a lot of killing and raping when we rule western india and kashmir. They said that their information is more reliable because its quote from academic and written source. While our source were lack academic based. It is because of our ruthless and our small number in india that english take a lot of sikh as their soldier. If they take muslim, the muslim will attack the english when they strong. If they take hindu, the hindu will attack the english when they strong. They even said that taking sikhs as army is cheaper because they only eat vegetarian food (Muslim eat meat while only brahmin in hindu is vegeterian).

I still young. 23 years old. Hopefully all brother can give me more advice. As for now, our small comunity in Malaysia still strong. I infact get job because my relationship between sikh brother and sister because my education background not that good.

Thank you again brother.

Let me say this much I personally consider my self a convert. There was a time when I knew nothing about Sikhi or any religion now I have the ability to tear apart any other faith that dares to challenge Sikhism. What demoniation of Christianity is bothering I will give you sources and information that can rip there world view to shreds. PM as soon as possible and I look forward to working with you. Its hard to work within the framework of Sikhi sometimes to refute arguments. In some cases I know more about Islam and Christianity than there believers. There is enough British thinkers that have torn apart Christianity that most people dont just know about. There arguments will bring these Evangelical Fags to there knees.

Gur Fateh,

Kuthaman

Ive been wanting to write this for a while but I plan to post an article on the secret history of Christianity. It will give you the evidence you need to fight back in argument and then pose ideas to show the superior nature of the Sikh faith.

[guptveer1469]

Nindya of others is bad, but I think highlighting the truth is best.

Birth of Jesus: Is he really a son of God? It is rather that he is the son of a Roman, in whose house his mother worked = illegitimate child (he was half-Roman, thus the hesitation to persecute him).

Resurrection: Jesus was highly wounded and fell unconcious. Balm was put on his wounds, and he was buried. In the cold and due to balm, he wounds got better, and he gained bit consious. He then escaped to the east, somewhere in India. His grave is in Kashmir.

Islam, some facts that you should know:

*Once Muslims go to heaven, they can conveniently ditch their wives for the fresher and more pleasurable sexual encounters with 'Houris' (beautiful virgins). The poor wives who gave up their virginity for the pleasure of their husbands do not get anything. But wait, Allah is all merciful! He gives the wives the rare honour of watching their husbands deflower those 72 Houris (virgins) and 28 young pre-pubescent boys.

The specific Hadith in which the number of virgins is specified is Hadith Al-Tirmidhi in the Book of Sunah (volume IV, chapters on The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah, chapter 21, About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise. The same hadith is also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Quranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman:

"The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]."

* Women in Islam: no comment.. See: http://www.faithfreedom.org/

Note to mods: Sikhs are encouraged to speak the truth, please don't consider this as slander, but the truth.

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

WJKK WJKF

[ekongkar]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

The truth is harder to accept and lies and falsehood is pretty easy. The universal Guru is Guru Granth Sahib ji because it is written by Sikh Guru's and over 20 Hindu and Muslim saints of India. The Bible was not written by Jesus but over 400 years later after him by his disciples who had some odd dreams. Koran was memorised by the early Muslims but again not written by Mohamed.

Christianity is spreading in poor countries because their preachers teach lies - like the world is flat and there is only one sun and moon. Try telling this non-sense to some one in the western hemisphere and they will laugh back. They practised black magic/witch craft for centuries in Europe and burnt books other than the Bible - this is how deep their Christianity goes.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[kuthaman]

Nindya of others is bad, but I think highlighting the truth is best.

Birth of Jesus: Is he really a son of God? It is rather that he is the son of a Roman, in whose house his mother worked = illegitimate child (he was half-Roman, thus the hesitation to persecute him).

Resurrection: Jesus was highly wounded and fell unconcious. Balm was put on his wounds, and he was buried. In the cold and due to balm, he wounds got better, and he gained bit consious. He then escaped to the east, somewhere in India. His grave is in Kashmir.

Islam, some facts that you should know:

*Once Muslims go to heaven, they can conveniently ditch their wives for the fresher and more pleasurable sexual encounters with 'Houris' (beautiful virgins). The poor wives who gave up their virginity for the pleasure of their husbands do not get anything. But wait, Allah is all merciful! He gives the wives the rare honour of watching their husbands deflower those 72 Houris (virgins) and 28 young pre-pubescent boys.

The specific Hadith in which the number of virgins is specified is Hadith Al-Tirmidhi in the Book of Sunah (volume IV, chapters on The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah, chapter 21, About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise. The same hadith is also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Quranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman:

"The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]."

* Women in Islam: no comment.. See: http://www.faithfreedom.org/

Note to mods: Sikhs are encouraged to speak the truth, please don't consider this as slander, but the truth.

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

WJKK WJKF

Jesus was probably not resurrected. There was a cult in the Mediterranean in the Roman Empire known as Cybele and Attis. Cybele was the mother of the god Attis. Attis eventually died and was resurrected according to myth on Easter and his Birthday was on December 25th. Eventually to convert people the ancient gods became changed with Christian names. If you want to validate these statement search Sir James Frazer.

[guptveer1469]

You may be right veerji

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

WJKK WJKF

[SikherOfTheNaam]

Thanks SunnyBondSingh84 for addressing my post. If I may, I would like to respond to you comments below.

I did indeed state towards the end of my post that I am actively against religious propaganda, missionary work e.g. Christian preachers in public places etc. and believe that I would rather see the Khalsa have 2 true devotees than 2 million who don't "follow" sikhi properly. It is rather strange that you said I am against new souls joining such a beautiful path to God, when indeed I am one of the luckiest Goreh alive! Haha. I am so very fortunate and wish so many thousands more realise what jewel is present in this age of Kaljug. For this ultimate blessing I can only hope to aid others into answering their searching questions, providing comfort where possible and guidance if they ask for it.

In relation to myself, the past 5 years especially saw me searching for the actual meaning of the term God’asking several questions such as Why is there a "need" for a God? Why am I here? What is the purpose for my existence? What is reincarnation and karma? Etc. Is God really a grey bearded man upon a cloud in 'heaven' who goes by the name of ‘God and sent his "only son" to earth to die for our sins, is he found by meditating on Krishna, Buddha, or is an entity who goes by the name of Allah?

I did indeed state in my post Veerjee, that it is only 'Inspiration' and 'True Love' that can really awaken the dormant soul to tune into the naad in which to awaken the flame of passion and thirst for God and for one to fall at his feet in humility and love which grows as day passes us by.

Just as I had personally experienced, you can't gain these answers instantly and it does require a lot of time and soul searching, to discover the meaning of the universe, the will of God and to fall in loveetc. A Christian can preach for many hours to others that Jesus died for their sins and that they are blasphemous and that the world is coming to an end and thus; they are to repent. I would like you to tell me however, what use is this? How many people do you see flocking around them willing to "repent" and follow a more religious life? None and if so, only a very few.

You see the Abrahamic faiths of Judaism, Christianity and Islam with millions of followers world -wide by why is this so great? For because of this there are hundreds upon hundreds of sects that have arisen- distorting the true meaning of loving God and how to serve him and humanity. Such denominations include Protestantism, Anglican, Methodist, Syro-malabar, Church of Korea, Kenya, Scotland, Pakistan, Quaker, Baptist, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Macedonian and Catholicism – just to name a few! With latest stats showing there to be over 38000! There are thousands of souls Joined to a certain religion but it is only a handful that you see who are truly spiritual and understand the true message.

The love for God can only be obtained by his will, for a person has to take it upon themselves to go on this journey of self discovery and for them to feel the true love of God and aid in its development through inspiration whether this is from their Saadh Sangat through spiritually high brothers or sisters, or whether they read into the detailed history of love, compassion and bravery of many of our shaheeds whether muslim or sikh, Guroo’s etc. As time progresses so does the love for God.

Each day I am truly thankful that finally after millions of incarnations; Vaaheguroo has provided me with the naam; the keys to all the doors and gates and have been blessed with a path that is so beautiful, that remains so pure, with love, humility and courage entwined within its very foundations.

Although my main eternal praises for this blessing is owed all to Vaaheguroo, he was able to inscribe my own destiny on the foreheads of three close friends of mine also, who acted as the voice of God(who still remain my best friends to this day) to awaken my dormant soul - for it is without them my soul would still be lost and searching wasting this precious human life.

You see dear bro, that these three amrithdhaari sikhs never ever forced their beliefs onto me which is important if a person is to feel the true love of God. For it is by Gods grace and will alone did I stumble upon meeting them and maintain such a close friendship circle – that to this day, they are the three best friends alive and some of the best people I have met Vaaheguroo for in this life especially, I am partially indebted to them.

You say that the Khalsa is to increase in number, which as stated above I beg to differ. If for a moment however, I was to agree with you, then this is to be through Inspiration and Love. For it was these brothers of mine that allowed me to develop my own ideas and individuality with them being present in which to provide further knowledge or guidance or even participate in active debates. For God had already planted the seed for when I took this incarnation, and through them, this seed was watered.

I hope I haven't offended anyone as this wasn't my intention.

Thank you

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

[neo4ride]

Thanks for the support and advice..

At some point some of your point seems right. I'm not a religious man. When I am teenager, I live with my uncle (whose my cousin convert to muslim). But I proud to be sikh and proud with the strong relationship in our comunnity. I try my best to keep my identity. I think I will start to be vegeterian again when the time is come.

About my gf. She so pretty. my love to her was so deep. But, i guess all of u are right. Sometimes I must sacrifice myself in the name of love.

For arguing, I would never argue with my schoolmate anymore. Its pointless. as with my cousin, they were a bit open minded. they never argue about religion with me. When I told them about what mughal did to our anchestor, they agree about the fact, condemn the act and said that in Islam there are no such thing. They said that what mughal did is a dictactor jobs. Their prophet never gave such an example and their holy book never encourage that kind of thing. Tell you the truth, living in Malaysia where the islam has been practice with very tolerent way (even though in many cases, Islam cannot be criticsid) I started to understand it. People like Osama Laden is sample of mughal. People like yusuf islam, Muhammad Ali, malcom x is a sample of soul search individu.

What you told me is truth. I should stop arguing. it is a useless. Lets find the truth together.

Thank you brother for your help and advice. I feel so much relief now.