Re:

[ranj03]

I AM TOTALLY WITH THE PROTESTER, AND 100% SUPPORT WHAT THEY DO AND HOW THEY DID IT

I AM SO DISGUSTED WITH THE FIRST POST, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON?

HAVE YOU FORGOT WHAT HAPPENED TO US? AND WHAT DID WE DO? WE KILLED THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE (GHANDI) AND TO RIGHT WE DID.

AND NOW, MUSLIMS ARE BEING MURDERED IN THEIR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, AND A SOME RIGHTFULLY PROTEST AGAINST THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE. THEY ARE SHOWING A STAND.

SOMETIMES, WE NEED TO FORGET OUR PREJUDISM AND LOOK AT THE FACTS.

SOME PEOPLE ARE UTTERLY CLUELESS, AND IT ANNOYS AND FRIGHTENS ME THAT PEOPLE LIKE THIS POST STARTER ARE ABLE TO SPREAD THESE MESSAGES.

DISGRACE.

[Matheen]

Why can't we simply do the same?

Because it's wrong, and illogical. We must always live by the morals and ethics given to us by Guru Sahib. Guru Ji and olden Sikhs faced situations that we can't even imagine, but never diverged from the path. We can't justify doing something because it was done to us.

When we forgot Guru Sahib's hukam, we got our backsides kicked and lost our raj.

[HSD*^]

I am not being apologetic, nor do I understand what all the fuss is about. Its a silly conversation - people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The Panth (I am purposefully generalising) is not exactly welcoming of the Biharis or Dalits are they - do your own research - I have done mine 1st hand in Punjab - and it makde me SICK. Compare your priviledges to those of minorities in Punjab, smell the the coffee. Seriously, if people don't like this country I really think they should leave - I would if I felt the same way - otherwise we are simply internet heroes and real life contradiicts.

History is history, get over it, the comment made about the Sikh Raj and Sikh Generals etc, ahem, Dogra brothers - thats that. Sikhs lost their Raj because they lost Dasam Patshahs grace, simple - the rest was just a bahana. Sikhs have always been nkown for being in chardhi kala and making a victory out of so called defeat - this attitude has obviously diluted going by some posts being read here.

The whole continuing theme of 'British' is a joke, who are the British, a class, the Government, or certain Individuals?

Many Sikhs have intergrated well into the UK, yes after much hard work and challenge - of course siknghs must remain tyar bar tyar, but this does not equal paranoid/pessimistic. Learn Rajniti from ithihas and current trends - you will find the whole word operates on similar lines inc India, no nation is wonderful (apart from Bhutan perhaps, lol).

Even our Guru's didn't generalise the Mughals - they established relationships based on the present ruler and his actions. Again, this shows how dum we have become - falling into the same hate/prejudice trap that racists fall into.

Judge a person, not a nation.

you are misinterpreting my posts. where is the hate? or are you just jumping at shadows.

my father said we sikhs were a great people and one thing we would never do is beg - how often do you see sikh beggars? yet by your attitude it is clear that some are more than greatful for a few scraps on the floor.

Why can't we simply do the same?

Because it's wrong, and illogical. We must always live by the morals and ethics given to us by Guru Sahib. Guru Ji and olden Sikhs faced situations that we can't even imagine, but never diverged from the path. We can't justify doing something because it was done to us.

When we forgot Guru Sahib's hukam, we got our backsides kicked and lost our raj.

guru sahib's hukam? no, we lost as we had no decent intelligence corps in the punjab that was capable of rooting out traitors. and those traitors led us to defeat.

[Khaalis]

"my father said we sikhs were a great people and one thing we would never do is beg - how often do you see sikh beggars? yet by your attitude it is clear that some are more than greatful for a few scraps on the floor."

Lol, who is the one living in the luxury of the west, using western technology to communicate their prejudice, educated in the west, working in the west! There is probably no difference between you and me in terms of we both mostl likely have Sikh and punjabi ethos of Kirt - and have or are working towards a career which we support our 'roti, kapada aur makaan'! What begging are you talking about? Sikhs have earnt their right to live and work in teh UK in my book, my grandfathers father and grandfather both fought in WW1 in Basra together, with Jaimal Singh leading the Unit as a General Subedar at 80 years old and his son Bhagvaan Singh fighting under him. I have no need for scraps - my opportunity has been provided for by blood and by Guru's hukum and kirpa both - something which seems to be an alien conecpt to you judging by your below 'scientific' statement. Learn to see the bigger picture brother, you are too busy staring at he finger pointing to the moon. The bahaana is just that, you need to learn to do vichaar and see the objective of Vaheguru's hukum.

"guru sahib's hukam? no, we lost as we had no decent intelligence corps in the punjab that was capable of rooting out traitors. and those traitors led us to defeat."

[dalsingh101]

What begging are you talking about? Sikhs have earnt their right to live and work in teh UK in my book, my grandfathers father and grandfather both fought in WW1 in Basra together, with Jaimal Singh leading the Unit as a General Subedar at 80 years old and his son Bhagvaan Singh fighting under him. I have no need for scraps - my opportunity has been provided for by blood and by Guru's hukum and kirpa both - something which seems to be an alien conecpt to you judging by your below 'scientific' statement.

You really surprise me Khaalis, one moment you were talking like we should be eternally grateful for the big favour the British have done for us by severely attacking our sovereignity (which was given by Dasmesh Pita for the record), and scattering through the winds of imperialism an giving us jobs. Then you turn around and make a statement like above, which essentially says we have earned our rights here through blood and sacrifice and hukum. So what is it that actually believe? Have we have earned our rights here or should we be kowtowing in perpetual gratitude?

PS - what was wrong with the 'below "scientific" statement'. It seemed pretty straightforward to me.

[HSD*^]

"my father said we sikhs were a great people and one thing we would never do is beg - how often do you see sikh beggars? yet by your attitude it is clear that some are more than greatful for a few scraps on the floor."

Lol, who is the one living in the luxury of the west, using western technology to communicate their prejudice, educated in the west, working in the west! There is probably no difference between you and me in terms of we both mostl likely have Sikh and punjabi ethos of Kirt - and have or are working towards a career which we support our 'roti, kapada aur makaan'! What begging are you talking about? Sikhs have earnt their right to live and work in teh UK in my book, my grandfathers father and grandfather both fought in WW1 in Basra together, with Jaimal Singh leading the Unit as a General Subedar at 80 years old and his son Bhagvaan Singh fighting under him. I have no need for scraps - my opportunity has been provided for by blood and by Guru's hukum and kirpa both - something which seems to be an alien conecpt to you judging by your below 'scientific' statement. Learn to see the bigger picture brother, you are too busy staring at he finger pointing to the moon. The bahaana is just that, you need to learn to do vichaar and see the objective of Vaheguru's hukum.

"guru sahib's hukam? no, we lost as we had no decent intelligence corps in the punjab that was capable of rooting out traitors. and those traitors led us to defeat."

begging? i said sikhs dont beg.... you really need to read my posts again, you're jumping at shadows. and as for my sikhi all i have to say is this..... before the anglo-sikh wars, a british commander said "once we have seperated sikhs from their guru, they will never be a threat again". now tell me if our defeat was part of waheguru's hukam - or the elaborate plan of people capable of thinking that the world is theirs for the taking and not waiting for god to give it to them?

as for science, waheguru is the greatest scientist of all time.... waheguru invented every scientific principle, whether we mere humans know them or not!! i wont take back my 'scientific statement' as its the truth. tell me, does the SGGS tell you how to speak french? how to build a bridge? how to send a rocket into space or how to grow crops? no?! does that mean i shouldnt care about them? of course not.

[HSD*^]

wow, i really know how to kill off a discussion. <_<