Fire - Arson At East London Gurdwara - Bow

[HSD*^]

okay the somallian thing may be too precise. but if someone calls someone a somali, there must be a reason, otherwise they would have described them as just black. i can tell the difference between the two (i have spent time in hayes/southall). quite a lot of people can tell the difference.

but still, if a gang does a raid, it wants prestige but without getting anyone arrested. graffiti on a shop shutter is small fry for something like this. i know gangmembers who get involved in this racial <banned word filter activated> (sikh v muslim) and even they wouldnt attack a religous place. the crazier ones who would are the type who would openly brag (camera phone pics, telling mates, making jokes online etc.)

and lets face it if i was some kala, i would spend ages wondering around thinking of were to start a fire. this went to well. how come no one spotted him on his way in? i'm sure the real reason he got so far will come out in time. the police havent arrested anyone, and maybe the wider community wants it that way.

as for the 'close' thing, i think you missed my point. quoting racism from areas with large black/asian populations does not mean that some of the sikh community were not really chummy with the local kaleh.

[swordsedge]

cant believe what im readin

11 Saroops of Guru ji burned and nobody says anything? is Guruji NOT our family? maybe God should have taken away 11 members of our own families..

maybe that would have made us think..

is GuruGhar NOT our home? maybe God should have burned down our homes..

if they can get away with this they can get away with anythin. maybe they should have come for our mothers, our sisters and daughters instead at least there would have been some reaction.

if the police dont find who did this then we will have to demand a different form of justice. it is better that the guilty be found and punished before people decide to take the law into their own hands.

our Panth is not a bunch of cowards who will sit idly by and allow our Places of Worship to be targeted one by one and we say nothing, do nothing.

if those in power do not denounce this action, if the media chooses to ignore this problem and if nothing is done then it will be brought to their attention by any means necessary.

no more protesting singing Kirtan

no more leaflets

no more talking to the media & public

no more shanti shanti peaceful marches.

no more slavery

if this is not an act of war against the Sikhs what is?

if now is not the time for action when is?

[Kalsingh]

okay the somallian thing may be too precise. but if someone calls someone a somali, there must be a reason, otherwise they would have described them as just black. i can tell the difference between the two (i have spent time in hayes/southall). quite a lot of people can tell the difference.

but still, if a gang does a raid, it wants prestige but without getting anyone arrested. graffiti on a shop shutter is small fry for something like this. i know gangmembers who get involved in this racial <banned word filter activated> (sikh v muslim) and even they wouldnt attack a religous place. the crazier ones who would are the type who would openly brag (camera phone pics, telling mates, making jokes online etc.)

and lets face it if i was some kala, i would spend ages wondering around thinking of were to start a fire. this went to well. how come no one spotted him on his way in? i'm sure the real reason he got so far will come out in time. the police havent arrested anyone, and maybe the wider community wants it that way.

as for the 'close' thing, i think you missed my point. quoting racism from areas with large black/asian populations does not mean that some of the sikh community were not really chummy with the local kaleh.

Man, didn't you read my first point. I know it happens all the time that some indians can't tell the difference, believe me i've experienced this first hand. Especially the older indians i.e. the woman who saw him. Anyway as far as i know she said he was paka rang and didn't say somalian. That was probably made up later down the line by one of those who i mention who tend to group west indians and somalians together. Anyways, i don't think it was a somalian.

As for them bragging, how do you know they haven't. Do you live in Hackney? Plus this aint no hardcore organised gang like the ones in LA or nothing. They may be heading that way but so far i'd just describe them as anti social juveniles.

Plus i wasn't saying that no blacks and asians would get on. I was just illustrating that racism exists between these two groups and its more than meets the eye sometimes.

I still think this is the way the investigation needs to head. Interegating this gang via the police or otherwise.

[loveandlivity]

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Just a quick suggestion that people should not jump into conclusions and judge on things before hard evidence. Even though everyone would like to find the culprit(s), it is not beneficial to make up one’s mind before there is actual knowledge. If you make up your mind before following the leads and investigating the evidence, there is a good chance the truth will never come out, or worse yet, falsehood is taken for a truth. There is no benefit in being prejudiced towards one option over another. No matter how straining it is, all must reveal in reality, not theory. Also, it is no good to see things in black & white in terms of people. People change and are different, gangs change and are different. Everyone is an individual. The word “gang“ does not equal to “only kills people for money” or “bragging all around for their fame”, but rather it means a group of people who are somehow affiliated under some name. There are a whole lot of different gangs. Some are flakey kids, some are “serious”. The reasons to do or not to do something can be so many. Again, the word “kala” does not equal to “one who does not know what Sach Khand is” or “who has enmity with Asians”. Neither does it mean the opposite. It only refers to skin colour/descent. There is some probability or improbability, but let’s face it, from those assumptions we do not know what happened. It is not very helpful of the cause at the moment, rather it helps breaking down the spirit and makes things look over-complicated. So what is tried to put across here is that there is not much sense in speculating on chances of different things, only actual evidence can lead to the culprit. There is a world out there with it’s people and places and somewhere there are probably the answers too. All the leads and possibilities should be investigated (and I am hopeful they are). On another note, it does not feel just slandering Sikhs either. I am sure everyone who is a Sikh feels very bad about this, and does not need the extra beating. I may be wrong in all this though.

This is a gutting situation. If one who did it will be walking free, it feels really hard. Though Guru Sahib must have a teaching in it anyway. Chardi Kala all.

Bhul chuk maaf karna Ji

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Kalsingh]

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Just a quick suggestion that people should not jump into conclusions and judge on things before hard evidence. Even though everyone would like to find the culprit(s), it is not beneficial to make up one’s mind before there is actual knowledge. If you make up your mind before following the leads and investigating the evidence, there is a good chance the truth will never come out, or worse yet, falsehood is taken for a truth. There is no benefit in being prejudiced towards one option over another. No matter how straining it is, all must reveal in reality, not theory. Also, it is no good to see things in black & white in terms of people. People change and are different, gangs change and are different. Everyone is an individual. The word “gang“ does not equal to “only kills people for money” or “bragging all around for their fame”, but rather it means a group of people who are somehow affiliated under some name. There are a whole lot of different gangs. Some are flakey kids, some are “serious”. The reasons to do or not to do something can be so many. Again, the word “kala” does not equal to “one who does not know what Sach Khand is” or “who has enmity with Asians”. Neither does it mean the opposite. It only refers to skin colour/descent. There is some probability or improbability, but let’s face it, from those assumptions we do not know what happened. It is not very helpful of the cause at the moment, rather it helps breaking down the spirit and makes things look over-complicated. So what is tried to put across here is that there is not much sense in speculating on chances of different things, only actual evidence can lead to the culprit. There is a world out there with it’s people and places and somewhere there are probably the answers too. All the leads and possibilities should be investigated (and I am hopeful they are). On another note, it does not feel just slandering Sikhs either. I am sure everyone who is a Sikh feels very bad about this, and does not need the extra beating. I may be wrong in all this though.

This is a gutting situation. If one who did it will be walking free, it feels really hard. Though Guru Sahib must have a teaching in it anyway. Chardi Kala all.

Bhul chuk maaf karna Ji

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

At last, thanks for that. Some people are stereotyping gangs like they all have the same pattern and aims and goals. You just cleared that up. People are talking about the gang in question as if they know them, which i doubt they do.

[HSD*^]

right liveandlivity you make some fair points, but if we cant stereotype this gang then we cant stereotype sikhs either. no one on here knows this gang, so no one is right. happy now? but more details on this gang would be appreciated if anyone knows anymore.

back to the question about evidence, why is the community there so quiet? surely the wider community would be awash with people talking about it. but now its as if people want to forget it and move on. so does anyone have any further points to add?

[AK-47]

im sure i typed some stuff up and said please read between the lines about what i am saying. Ok here it is in simple terms. People who have lived and worked in crews have told me what i typed.

Also although the images of the grafitti (with a marker?!!!) seem to have gone from the thread, a friend told me that the grafitti said "LFC E2" i.e. suggetsing that the crew was from the E2 postcode area .

The London fields crew are meant to be from E9 !!

Kinda odd for a crew to get their postcode wrong .. dont you think?

again this is what i have been told by someone from the area, i have not checked it. Please check it out for yourself if you need to.

From the meeting with the police/community last week (it was cancelled on the day) there were several members of the community who were also convinced that some knew more then they were letting on. But these people were told to be quiet and were not allowed to speak. It definetly seems that somebody knows something, but maybe due to fear is not speaking out.

Also the description of the arsonist has now ranged from black, to half, to white, to asain, to dark asain, to somalian etc. I.e for some reason the witnesses seem to keep changing the description. I duno why, maybe we need to see what the police have been told? Does anyone have a copy of offical police release?

The eye witnesses have also at some stage say they remember what happened, and later say that they didnt remember anything.

Something is definetly wrong.

[singh763173]

im sure i typed some stuff up and said please read between the lines about what i am saying. Ok here it is in simple terms. People who have lived and worked in crews have told me what i typed.

Also although the images of the grafitti (with a marker?!!!) seem to have gone from the thread, a friend told me that the grafitti said "LFC E2" i.e. suggetsing that the crew was from the E2 postcode area .

The London fields crew are meant to be from E9 !!

Kinda odd for a crew to get their postcode wrong .. dont you think?

again this is what i have been told by someone from the area, i have not checked it. Please check it out for yourself if you need to.

From the meeting with the police/community last week (it was cancelled on the day) there were several members of the community who were also convinced that some knew more then they were letting on. But these people were told to be quiet and were not allowed to speak. It definetly seems that somebody knows something, but maybe due to fear is not speaking out.

Also the description of the arsonist has now ranged from black, to half, to white, to asain, to dark asain, to somalian etc. I.e for some reason the witnesses seem to keep changing the description. I duno why, maybe we need to see what the police have been told? Does anyone have a copy of offical police release?

The eye witnesses have also at some stage say they remember what happened, and later say that they didnt remember anything.

Something is definetly wrong.

This is exactly what i was trying to say. Without the police reports or the fire reports released... how are we to be sure.

[singh_comradz]

im sure i typed some stuff up and said please read between the lines about what i am saying. Ok here it is in simple terms. People who have lived and worked in crews have told me what i typed.

Also although the images of the grafitti (with a marker?!!!) seem to have gone from the thread, a friend told me that the grafitti said "LFC E2" i.e. suggetsing that the crew was from the E2 postcode area .

The London fields crew are meant to be from E9 !!

Kinda odd for a crew to get their postcode wrong .. dont you think?

again this is what i have been told by someone from the area, i have not checked it. Please check it out for yourself if you need to.

From the meeting with the police/community last week (it was cancelled on the day) there were several members of the community who were also convinced that some knew more then they were letting on. But these people were told to be quiet and were not allowed to speak. It definetly seems that somebody knows something, but maybe due to fear is not speaking out.

Also the description of the arsonist has now ranged from black, to half, to white, to asain, to dark asain, to somalian etc. I.e for some reason the witnesses seem to keep changing the description. I duno why, maybe we need to see what the police have been told? Does anyone have a copy of offical police release?

The eye witnesses have also at some stage say they remember what happened, and later say that they didnt remember anything.

Something is definetly wrong.

true, even some of the local sangat there have said that the gurdwara has been established for many years, and they have not had problems with local gangs in the area.

apparently the sangat also hold functions on the field opposite the gurdwara named 'SIKH sangat' on vaisakhi and bandi chhor, so i'm sure that the locals would know the difference between a mosque and a gurdwara

[Kalsingh]

im sure i typed some stuff up and said please read between the lines about what i am saying. Ok here it is in simple terms. People who have lived and worked in crews have told me what i typed.

Also although the images of the grafitti (with a marker?!!!) seem to have gone from the thread, a friend told me that the grafitti said "LFC E2" i.e. suggetsing that the crew was from the E2 postcode area .

The London fields crew are meant to be from E9 !!

Kinda odd for a crew to get their postcode wrong .. dont you think?

again this is what i have been told by someone from the area, i have not checked it. Please check it out for yourself if you need to.

From the meeting with the police/community last week (it was cancelled on the day) there were several members of the community who were also convinced that some knew more then they were letting on. But these people were told to be quiet and were not allowed to speak. It definetly seems that somebody knows something, but maybe due to fear is not speaking out.

Also the description of the arsonist has now ranged from black, to half, to white, to asain, to dark asain, to somalian etc. I.e for some reason the witnesses seem to keep changing the description. I duno why, maybe we need to see what the police have been told? Does anyone have a copy of offical police release?

The eye witnesses have also at some stage say they remember what happened, and later say that they didnt remember anything.

Something is definetly wrong.

true, even some of the local sangat there have said that the gurdwara has been established for many years, and they have not had problems with local gangs in the area.

apparently the sangat also hold functions on the field opposite the gurdwara named 'SIKH sangat' on vaisakhi and bandi chhor, so i'm sure that the locals would know the difference between a mosque and a gurdwara

Yeah they maybe know the difference but also maybe they don't care i.e. they were out to get any browns.

I asked for the details of the police i.e. the name of the man, i think it was howard or something and his phone number. But now i'm flying off to india. Can someone please send his number my way (i'll be back in two weeks) or better yet phone themselves and ask if the gang link has or is being investigated and also what else. Again i stress it is the strongest piece of visible evidence presented before the cyber sangat to go on so far.

Regards