Jump to content

Fire - Arson At East London Gurdwara - Bow


Recommended Posts

“This attack as we firmly believe was carried out by a gang in East London called the London Fields Crew alias London Fields Boys initials in graff 'LFC' 'LFB', both these tags and others were found scattered throughout the Gurdwara estate and flats near by.”

Its the first i have heard about this gang and anything pointing to them, if this is the case then i think we know whats going to happen next

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 68
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

WJKK WJKF

The second issue is when tangible evidence is provided of the culprits, showing pictures and a statement from Asian community member, how can this be ignored.

Are there pictures of the culprit or are you talking about pictures of the graffitti?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WJKK WJKF

In response to your initial thread, I'd like to raise two issues that concern me. At hours of 1330 IST (15th March, Monday), an elderly female lady (from Sikh Community in East London) held that she saw "unknown (Black male)" who was in initiation of escaping from Gurdwara.

Now on the basis of the fireman report, the explanation was arson. The fire fighters have a more professional perception/awareness, to how fires start than we do. The firemen report was immaculate, with a reconciled appreciation of the elderly female statement. The first issue is on what basis you managed to raise, an explanation of electrical failure.

There are other Gurdwara's that have constant electricity channelling, and they've never caught fire. And lets agree principally that it was due to electrical problem, I'm sure the community in Suchkhand Sahib would have noticed the electrical disturbance earlier. Demolishment of a reasonably constructed building takes more than just an electrical overflow.

The second issue is when tangible evidence is provided of the culprits, showing pictures and a statement from Asian community member, how can this be ignored.

"This attack as we firmly believe was carried out by a gang in East London called the London Fields Crew alias London Fields Boys initials in graff 'LFC' 'LFB', both these tags and others were found scattered throughout the Gurdwara estate and flats near by."

I think the explanation must be realized with logical approach and understanding of what actually happened!

As this is a issue that concerns all the Sikh community deeply, i stress that we should move in a direction to getting those suspects! and not be concerned with how leaving a fan on causes a building to collapse!!!!

WJKK WJKF

Fateh Ji

I said that it was a possibility, at no point didnt i say "this is my conclusion". If all aspects are not considered how can we be sure?

And with regards to the quote about LFC, from what ive been told and read, the flats surrounding the Gurdwara are occupied by Bengalis, and it is with THEM, LFC have issues with.

Once again im not saying its them... and im NOT saying its not them. It mite have been them, but no-one is CERTAIN yet. Anybody could have written that on the shutters to put the focus on them, it could have been anyone (if anyone) who walked in and set Maharaj alight.

And Also, you cant say that a heater which has caught fire due to an electrical failure would burn slowly...

Once again:

Bhul Chuk Maaf

My post was not intended to cause any arguments or friction which it obviously has, i am sorry but if we havent discussed this issue then is it wrong for someone to bring it up? If so... then once again im sorry.

Forgive me for offering a possible cause.

WJKK WJKF

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WJKK WJKF

In response to your initial thread, I'd like to raise two issues that concern me. At hours of 1330 IST (15th March, Monday), an elderly female lady (from Sikh Community in East London) held that she saw "unknown (Black male)" who was in initiation of escaping from Gurdwara.

Now on the basis of the fireman report, the explanation was arson. The fire fighters have a more professional perception/awareness, to how fires start than we do. The firemen report was immaculate, with a reconciled appreciation of the elderly female statement. The first issue is on what basis you managed to raise, an explanation of electrical failure.

There are other Gurdwara's that have constant electricity channelling, and they've never caught fire. And lets agree principally that it was due to electrical problem, I'm sure the community in Suchkhand Sahib would have noticed the electrical disturbance earlier. Demolishment of a reasonably constructed building takes more than just an electrical overflow.

The second issue is when tangible evidence is provided of the culprits, showing pictures and a statement from Asian community member, how can this be ignored.

"This attack as we firmly believe was carried out by a gang in East London called the London Fields Crew alias London Fields Boys initials in graff 'LFC' 'LFB', both these tags and others were found scattered throughout the Gurdwara estate and flats near by."

I think the explanation must be realized with logical approach and understanding of what actually happened!

As this is a issue that concerns all the Sikh community deeply, i stress that we should move in a direction to getting those suspects! and not be concerned with how leaving a fan on causes a building to collapse!!!!

WJKK WJKF

Fateh Ji

I said that it was a possibility, at no point didnt i say "this is my conclusion". If all aspects are not considered how can we be sure?

And with regards to the quote about LFC, from what ive been told and read, the flats surrounding the Gurdwara are occupied by Bengalis, and it is with THEM, LFC have issues with.

Once again im not saying its them... and im NOT saying its not them. It mite have been them, but no-one is CERTAIN yet. Anybody could have written that on the shutters to put the focus on them, it could have been anyone (if anyone) who walked in and set Maharaj alight.

And Also, you cant say that a heater which has caught fire due to an electrical failure would burn slowly...

Once again:

Bhul Chuk Maaf

My post was not intended to cause any arguments or friction which it obviously has, i am sorry but if we havent discussed this issue then is it wrong for someone to bring it up? If so... then once again im sorry.

Forgive me for offering a possible cause.

WJKK WJKF

The tag says pretty clear something like ' We burnt your books, LFC'. You can't be more direct than that. Yeah, it is possible that someone else did it and is putting the blame on them but why would they do that. If there was a group of muslims (i say muslim because of the muslim grafitti on the gurdwara) who did it they'd be pretty messed up in the head to do something like that and i'd think they'd be the type to either say it was them or not say nothing at all. From the evidence put forward i.e. a black mixed race person running out and the LFC tag directly stating it was them, this is the line of inquiry we should be dealing with first through the police.

I'm still waiting for the police mans telephone number from anyone who knows so i can call and ask are they following up this evidence. Does anyone know if they have pursued this particular line of investigation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fateh Ji

I said that it was a possibility, at no point didnt i say "this is my conclusion". If all aspects are not considered how can we be sure?

And with regards to the quote about LFC, from what ive been told and read, the flats surrounding the Gurdwara are occupied by Bengalis, and it is with THEM, LFC have issues with.

Once again im not saying its them... and im NOT saying its not them. It mite have been them, but no-one is CERTAIN yet. Anybody could have written that on the shutters to put the focus on them, it could have been anyone (if anyone) who walked in and set Maharaj alight.

And Also, you cant say that a heater which has caught fire due to an electrical failure would burn slowly...

Once again:

Bhul Chuk Maaf

My post was not intended to cause any arguments or friction which it obviously has, i am sorry but if we havent discussed this issue then is it wrong for someone to bring it up? If so... then once again im sorry.

Forgive me for offering a possible cause.

WJKK WJKF

The tag says pretty clear something like ' We burnt your books, LFC'. You can't be more direct than that. Yeah, it is possible that someone else did it and is putting the blame on them but why would they do that. If there was a group of muslims (i say muslim because of the muslim grafitti on the gurdwara) who did it they'd be pretty messed up in the head to do something like that and i'd think they'd be the type to either say it was them or not say nothing at all. From the evidence put forward i.e. a black mixed race person running out and the LFC tag directly stating it was them, this is the line of inquiry we should be dealing with first through the police.

I'm still waiting for the police mans telephone number from anyone who knows so i can call and ask are they following up this evidence. Does anyone know if they have pursued this particular line of investigation?

WJKK WJKF

The issue you raised with sangat did not raise conflicts or friction; i take this a professional debate and so should you. I by seeing all evidence can certainly say it was arson. The reason to why i have concerns of your argument is because the sangat is left at a paradoxical state. The truth is really in front of us, and we should pursue with it.

Do you know that this situation will die out within a few months! That’s a promise because frankly speaking, i don’t think we have shown this adequately enough to the public or police, and needless to say our direction. The other way I would approach this is, would you be that deeply concerned if a Church had got burnt down? And Look it this from a average British person view, and tell me what you see?

It is very easy to escape with this sort of crime, and I with agony can say that the culprits who burned my Guru are getting away, or have gotten away. Anybody with a right state of mind known’s this!

I am sorry if you think i have indulged into the debate, or if you think basis of my argument are not adequate enough. If this issue is settled in your hearts, that with a basic application of fan, heat or etcc, caused our gurdwara to burn down and our Guru, then i would end this thread!

WJKK WJKF

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dont be distracted by the potential gang link.

Most of us have never been in gangs of this type and do not know how they operate.

People who have/are in these types of gangs have said that this is not the kind of activity carried out by gangs. They would have targetted specific people not buildings.

In the history of London gang violence, how many religious buildings have been burnt before?

The gangs main concern is to make money and control territory, their violence in based on this territory and personal reputations. Burning a gurdwara benefits neither.

Also the area covered by the London Fields crew is many miles from the Gurdwara. Again gangs wouldn't normally travel that far to carry out an attack. Most people dont know the local area, or how it is split between the local crews, so without this knowledge its pointless pointing fingers.

Writing a gangs name on a wall is easy. Even as kids when we did something bad, we might do something to divert attention so someone else got the blame. Its the easiest and simplest way to shift fault. If you blame one of the most upcoming and violent crews in the area, it makes it even more feasible. If a gang has done it, we will find out, cus these guys love to talk about their acts of violence. A scribbled line on a wall is not their style. If they had wanted to target the sikhs, it would be much easier to stab/shoot someone, which these guys are not afraid of doing.

It may be that a person was paid to do the attack, and he may be associated with a crew, but this does not seem like an official gang hit.

The above may all be wrong, but this view was given by people with significant ex-gang experience having lived and fought in these gangs (not me b4 anyone jumps to that conclusion!).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dont be distracted by the potential gang link.

Most of us have never been in gangs of this type and do not know how they operate.

People who have/are in these types of gangs have said that this is not the kind of activity carried out by gangs. They would have targetted specific people not buildings.

In the history of London gang violence, how many religious buildings have been burnt before?

The gangs main concern is to make money and control territory, their violence in based on this territory and personal reputations. Burning a gurdwara benefits neither.

Also the area covered by the London Fields crew is many miles from the Gurdwara. Again gangs wouldn't normally travel that far to carry out an attack. Most people dont know the local area, or how it is split between the local crews, so without this knowledge its pointless pointing fingers.

Writing a gangs name on a wall is easy. Even as kids when we did something bad, we might do something to divert attention so someone else got the blame. Its the easiest and simplest way to shift fault. If you blame one of the most upcoming and violent crews in the area, it makes it even more feasible. If a gang has done it, we will find out, cus these guys love to talk about their acts of violence. A scribbled line on a wall is not their style. If they had wanted to target the sikhs, it would be much easier to stab/shoot someone, which these guys are not afraid of doing.

It may be that a person was paid to do the attack, and he may be associated with a crew, but this does not seem like an official gang hit.

The above may all be wrong, but this view was given by people with significant ex-gang experience having lived and fought in these gangs (not me b4 anyone jumps to that conclusion!).

I don't know. The types of gangs present in hackney such as the fields crew (i don't know much about them) are basically a pointless pathetic bunch of testestorone filled teenagers and older people who shoot and stab each other over which estate you are from (postcode wars). How sad (however dangerous it is) can you get. They're not typically organised like some of the more serious yardie criminal gangs who are into money making on a large scale. From this point of view, i can easily see how they could have been behind the attack especially if they were racist which alot of these black gangs are nowadays.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So are we saying that it may be a case of mistaken identity by the LFC? They may have intended to target some Bengal crew but being dumb didn't realise the difference between a Sikh Gurdwara and a Bengali mosque? Perhaps just seeing everyone as "Asian".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So are we saying that it may be a case of mistaken identity by the LFC? They may have intended to target some Bengal crew but being dumb didn't realise the difference between a Sikh Gurdwara and a Bengali mosque? Perhaps just seeing everyone as "Asian".

Something like that. Or they probably decided to target any browns place of worship just to tick us off and didn't care whether it was a gurdwara, mosque or mandir. I wouldn't be surprised.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So are we saying that it may be a case of mistaken identity by the LFC? They may have intended to target some Bengal.......

The one thing that doesn't make sense is, if the gang did it, why did they do it during the day and why go all the way into the Sachkhand thereby increasing time spent and the chances of getting caught rather than just the darbar sahib?

It seems almost certain it was someone who had been there before or at least knew the lay out of the place.

Did any one go to the meeting on Tuesday?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use