Fire - Arson At East London Gurdwara - Bow

[Kalsingh]

So are we saying that it may be a case of mistaken identity by the LFC? They may have intended to target some Bengal.......

The one thing that doesn't make sense is, if the gang did it, why did they do it during the day and why go all the way into the Sachkhand thereby increasing time spent and the chances of getting caught rather than just the darbar sahib?

It seems almost certain it was someone who had been there before or at least knew the lay out of the place.

Did any one go to the meeting on Tuesday?

The types of people these are, they do things without thinking about the consequences. Come on, shooting another person over being a few roads into 'their territory'. How pathetic can you get and how sad. Anyway, i don't think such a mentality would prevent them carrying out an arson in the day and they don't mind going to jail either but obvioulsy they'd prefer if they don't get caught.

Or

Maybe the LFC paid someone to do it. Someone who knew what sachkhand is and where it is not necessarily at this gurdwara but generally. Thus maybe a muslim or a muslim told a somalian (someone was saying it was a somalian). Or i doubt if anyone remembers but maybe the worm who did it was coming to the gurdwara previously to learn where everything is and having langar and observed that there is a room upstairs and thats where they take Maharaj (observing this during sukhassan).

I think Sachkhand would probably be preferred to such an individual as it would give time for them to light the fire with petrol etc by not being seen.

[sikhlionz]

Agree with AK-47 no Gang gets involved in a Gurdwara unless specifically paid to as its not worth the risk. Especially a non-Sikh gang and the fact that the person knew where Sachkhand is to target means they may have had information or had visited before.

fact is 11 Saroops of Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj have had sanskar and an entire GuruGhar gutted.

very few public figures or public bodies have spoken out against this intolerable act.

very few media have covered this.

nobody has been arrested and the police have done nothing.

if this was a mosque it would be a different story and yet that has hardly anything sacred inside.

this is a recipe for creating a lot of Anger and people's blood will boil unless the Police do something.

i'm sure if a Sikh Gurudwara can catch fire and nothing happens then a lot of other high profile public buildings in London are just as flammable and the Government should sit quietly by.

[sikhlionz]

Ultimately it is up to any Government to take responsibility and safeguard its citizens. if Sikhs do not feel that GuruGhar are safe then whatever happens as a result will be the State's fault not ours.

[AK-47]

Seriously guys, have any of the people commenting actually lived as part of these crews?

People admit not knowing much about them, but still come out with theories. The area that these people live in is a few miles from the Bow Gurdwara. If you think it's them, then they all hang out in the big grassy area opposite the school. Why not pay a visit down there and ask them if they did it?

Let us know what you find in your investigations.

Or you can find someone who knows these things and ask them. End of the day if you approach these people and ask if they commited this act, they may not like the accusation and you may have to deal with what comes next. Sometimes its best to ask via other means, maybe through someone who knows the people. Read between the lines people.

It may still be them, but nothing other then a bit of grafitti (which absolutely anyone could do, i could go there tomorrow and right the name of any gang) and the fact the person was said to be black suggests that it is a gang/crew who did this. Without being racist the area is full of black people, many who may do this type of thing for cash. It could still be anyone.

As far as criminal acts are concerned, if a guy gets arrested for violence, stabbing, robbery etc it is seen to build their reputation. Setting fire to buildings/etc is a soft target and not something that people would be proud of.

The gangs love cash, they fight and kill for cash, they are not gona spend money on payin someone to set fire to a gurdwara lol!

But if you still need to speak to the police, then please do so, the more phone calls they recieve the better. But dont close your minds to other reasosn, maybe some that may be a lot closer to home.

Sikhlionz in bang on, govt and police are just letting the situation get worse. Nobody to blame but themselves afterwards.

[sikhlionz]

http://www.neverforgetbow09.blogspot.com/

Introduction

Whenever we go to the Gurdwara and stand in the Ardaas, at the end of the Ardaas we recite the following words...

“Guru Granth Jee Maaneo, Pargat Guraa Ki Deh|

Realise that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the embodiment of all the Gurus.

Jo Prabh Ko Milbo Chahe, Khoj Shabad Meh Leh|

Those who seek union with God should search through the divine wisdom of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.”

These words contain the essence of Sikhi. To a non-Sikh Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji may seem just a book, a piece of well constructed literature from the 15th century; but Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is much more than that. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the living, talking, eternal Guru Sahib Ji, the Guru who is beyond time and death, the Guru who embodies that divine light which passed from Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji all the way to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the Guru to whom even the Tenth Master Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji bowed Their head, and the Guru who has lead the Khalsa Panth for the last 300 years.

The Tragedy

It is with a heavy heart that we must relate the events at Gurdwara Sikh Sangat, Harley Grove in Bow (East London) to the wider Sangat. On the afternoon of Monday the 16th of March 2009 there was a women’s congregation going on at Gurdwara Sikh Sangat; one of the women from the Sangat noticed an intruder enter the Gurdwara Sahib from a side door. After this a fire broke out in the Sachkhand room (where Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj is seated whilst at rest) of Gurdwara Sikh Sangat which ended up engulfing the whole building. Over 10 fire engines and 50 firefighters battled for over 6 hours to bring the fire under control. The firefighters confirmed that the fire destroyed over 75% of the Gurdwara Sahib complex, with the roof of the whole Gurdwara Sahib completely caving in, leaving only the outer walls standing. The Sachkhand room where the fire began was completely and utterly destroyed by the fire.

The most painful news for the whole Panth is that 11 blessed Saroops of our beloved Satguru, the light of the Ten Guru Sahibaans, the Jugo-Jug Atal Eternal Satguru, Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were burnt due to the fire. 8 Saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were recovered on Tuesday the 17th; the police discovered 3 more Saroops and many more Gutkaa and Pothee Sahibs on Friday the 20th. With heavy hearts Sevadars from across the country gathered together at Gurdwara Mata Sahib Kaur Academy and worked day and night on the daunting Seva of preparing Satguru Ji’s saroops for the Sanskaar (cremation) ceremony. It brought tears to the eyes of all the Sevadars and anyone who had Darshan of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji’s Saroops; to see how the Angs (limbs) of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Mahaaraaj were crumpled, burnt and blackened because of the fire, and dripping wet and ice cold due to the water damage. Take a moment Saadh Sangat Ji, think in your hearts, our beloved Satguru Ji’s Saroops were burnt in fire and doused in water – do we feel no pain?

Under the guidance of Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib an Akhand Paath Sahib was carried out at Gurdwara Mata Sahib Kaur Academy and the Sanskaar Seva took place at Guru Gobind Singh Khalsa College Chigwell. Sangat from across the country came to pay their respects and witness their beloved Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji’s Sanskaar ceremony being carried out, yet sadly out of 500,000 Sikhs that live across the UK, only 1,000 – 2,000 people gathered for the Sanskaar ceremony of Guru Sahib Ji. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji’s blessed remains will be taken to Panjab where the scattering of the blessed remains of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji will be carried out by Sevadars approved by Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib.

Who is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

It was only a few months ago that we celebrated the 300th anniversary of the Gurta Gur-Gaddee Divas (Guru-ship ceremony) of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, last year we also remembered the 30th anniversary of the massacre in Amritsar by the fake Nirankaris of 13 innocent Singhs, and this year we are commemorating 25 years since Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib was attacked by the Indian Army in Operation Blue Star.

Yet time and time again we fail to realize that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Eternal Embodiment of all Ten Gurus Sahibaans. It is no use to simply chant the words of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj proclaiming that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is and forever will be, ‘Pargat Guraa Kee Deh’ – ‘The Divine Embodiment of all Ten Guru Sahibaans’. It is time to bring those words uttered by the 10th Master 300 years ago into action in our Gurdwaras, communities and everyday lives. It is only 300 years since Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji commanded all Sikhs to accept Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the Eternally Living Embodiment of all Ten Guru Sahibaans, it is only 30 years since 13 blessed Singhs laid their lives defending the respect of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and it is only 25 years since Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji endured the bullets of the Indian Army all for our sake... Yet we forget their sacrifices every moment of every day!

Saadh Sangat Ji we must remember that it is the first time in history that such a devastating attack has been carried out on a Gurdwara Sahib outside of India. An attack on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is an attack on the very foundations of Sikhi, it is an attack on the whole Sikh Panth; an attack on the Gurus house is an attack on our house. The fateful day of March 16th 2009 should be remembered by all Sikhs, and by the world, as the day when Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj sacrificed Themselves in order to wake up the Sikh Panth.

We must believe and accept that Sri Guru Granth Sahib are the ‘Jaagdee Jot’ – ‘The Forever Awakened Eternal Light’ of all Ten Guru Sahibaans. An attack on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is an attack on the beauteous wisdom of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, it’s an attack on the never-ending humility of Sri Guru Amardaas Ji, and it’s an attack on the Tenth Master Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji who sacrificed his four sons for the Khalsa Panth.

Just as Sri Guru Arjan Sahib Ji sacrificed their physical form by burning in boiling cauldrons, standing on the burning hot plates of the prisons of Lahore whilst red hot sand run down their divine body and eventually passing into the icy cold waters of the river Ravi; just as Sri Guru Teghbahadur Sahib Ji marched to Delhi in order to sacrifice their physical form to protect righteousness and truth, just as Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji sacrificed their entire family for the cause of justice, in the same way Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj has sacrificed themselves 11 times in order to awaken the Sikh Panth from its slumber which has lasted many years. ALL Ten Guru Sahibaans have sacrificed themselves through smoldering fire and icy cold water 11 times in order to awaken us – if we refuse to awaken now how can we call ourselves Sikhs of the Guru?

What to do now?

Our beloved Satguru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has given Shaheedi (martyrdom) 11 times... Important questions remain unanswered Saadh Sangat Ji...

Where do we go from here Saadh Sangat Ji?

Do we fall back into a state of unawareness and carry on letting Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji’s respect and authority be questioned and undermined again and again?

Are we going to wake up? Or will we simply ignore the fact that ALL ten Guru Sahibaans have sacrificed themselves through smoldering fire and icy cold water 11 times in order to awaken us?

If there is one lesson we learn from looking at Sikh history it is that sacrifice is always followed by revolution; the martyrdom of Sri Guru Arjan Sahib Ji was followed by the establishment of Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib by Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji and the sacrifice by Sri Guru Teghbahadur Sahib Ji was followed by the establishment of the Khalsa brotherhood in order to tackle injustice by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji. We must contemplate that if Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has sacrificed themselves 11 times there must be a reason; it must be a wakeup call to the Sikh nation to make us realize our mistakes.

As stated many times before we need to accept and believe that Sri Guru Granth Sahib is our Eternal Living Guru. Treating Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with complete love and utmost reverence has been part of the Sikh religion since the 5th Master Sri Guru Arjan Sahib Ji first compiled Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in 1604. From the day the compilation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was complete Sri Guru Arjan Sahib never sat on their throne or slept on their bed again, rather they gave up these comforts and instead enthroned Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji upon their Throne and Bed; for the rest of their life Sri Guru Arjan Sahib Ji sat upon the ground and slept upon a single white sheet. We should learn from the example and Sri Guru Arjan Sahib Ji and we should endeavor to stop Beadbi (disrespect) of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and divine Gurbani wherever it is taking place, whether in our Gurdwaras, homes or in our libraries. We must forever remember the immortal words of the 7th Master Sri Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji,

“Jin Bhae Adab Naa Baanee Dharaa | Jaanoh(u) So Sikh Nahee(n) Hamaaraa |

He who has no fear or respect of Gurbani. Know that he is not my Sikh.”

This means going into our local Gurdwaras ensuring that the respect and sanctity of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is maintained on a day to day basis. Is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji accompanied by at least 5 Singhs when going from one location to the next? Is the Sachkhand room of Sri Guru Granth Sahib big enough to accommodate all of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji’s Saroops?

The fact of simply how long it is taking for the Police to deal with the case of the fire and also the fact that the fire is being treated as a simple case of criminal damage to property is a testament in itself to how we have failed to make the world aware that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not a book, or a piece of sacred literature, rather Sri Guru Granth Sahib is our beloved Living Guru. We must keep pressure upon the Police to resolve this issue as quickly as possible, we have to stress that this matter will not be allowed to be ignored or brushed under the carpet. We need to make it as clear as day to the world that any attack on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji will never be tolerated at any cost by the Sikh Panth in order to help prevent such vicious and hateful attacks in the future. We will not let the perpetrator of this evil act to get away.

Guru Sahib is urging us to cast off the divisions of Jathebandi, caste and discrimination and to unite as One Panth. We must all unite to fight any forms of corruption which have crept into our Guru’s house, and we must all endeavor to increase our individual Rehat and our love for Guru Sahib Ji’s Baani. We should do this by joining in the 1 million Chaupai Sahib Jaap (www.chaupaisahib.org) and pray for the Chardi Kala of the Panth.

We must all take the pain of this episode in our history into our hearts, into the very core of our being as a Panth. We must all give up drugs, castes, and material attachment to the world and join together as brothers and sisters in the Khalsa. We must not be scared to wear the beloved uniform of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji which is drenched in the blood of countless Shaheed Singhs, read the Baani which once flowed from the divine tongue of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and take pride that our father is Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji and our mother is Mata Sahib Kaur Ji. Each of us must promise ourselves that we will not rest till the perpetrators of this heinous crime are brought to justice, in the divine words of Satguru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji...

“Kookar Koorr(u) Kamaaeeai Gur Nindaa Pachai Pachaan(u) ||

Those who practice falsehood are dogs; those who slander the Guru shall burn in their own fire.” Ang 21 SGGSJ

[Kalsingh]

Seriously guys, have any of the people commenting actually lived as part of these crews?

People admit not knowing much about them, but still come out with theories. The area that these people live in is a few miles from the Bow Gurdwara. If you think it's them, then they all hang out in the big grassy area opposite the school. Why not pay a visit down there and ask them if they did it?

Let us know what you find in your investigations.

Or you can find someone who knows these things and ask them. End of the day if you approach these people and ask if they commited this act, they may not like the accusation and you may have to deal with what comes next. Sometimes its best to ask via other means, maybe through someone who knows the people. Read between the lines people.

It may still be them, but nothing other then a bit of grafitti (which absolutely anyone could do, i could go there tomorrow and right the name of any gang) and the fact the person was said to be black suggests that it is a gang/crew who did this. Without being racist the area is full of black people, many who may do this type of thing for cash. It could still be anyone.

As far as criminal acts are concerned, if a guy gets arrested for violence, stabbing, robbery etc it is seen to build their reputation. Setting fire to buildings/etc is a soft target and not something that people would be proud of.

The gangs love cash, they fight and kill for cash, they are not gona spend money on payin someone to set fire to a gurdwara lol!

But if you still need to speak to the police, then please do so, the more phone calls they recieve the better. But dont close your minds to other reasosn, maybe some that may be a lot closer to home.

Sikhlionz in bang on, govt and police are just letting the situation get worse. Nobody to blame but themselves afterwards.

Yeah they fight and kill for cash but they also do the same for reputation and territory. I only said maybe they paid someone to do it because people are saying how would they know where Suchkhand is. Alright then, even if they didn't pay someone i believe the gang link is the strongest thing to go on. I can't understand why generally people don't want to believe in it, not you in particular but the general gist of responses we are getting on the thread.

Anyway, i think its the police peoples job to go there and interegate this gang. I wouldn't do it unless there were at least as many of us as there were of them which could be anywhere from 20 to 80 people even more. Who knows. I don't know that many people and the type who'd be willing to deal with the possible consequences.

[sikhlionz]

[HSD*^]

gangs brag, that is common. so it would be obvious if they did it. but the attack just went too well. why werent there more of them? why one guy? why do people say he looked somali (they dont get on with afro-caribean blacks, so a somali wouldnt be part of the lfc)? and lets face it the sikh community does not live in isolation. in areas like that some sikhs end up quite close to their black neighbours, just look at parts of birmingham. something just isnt right about this.

[dalsingh101]

So are we saying that it may be a case of mistaken identity by the LFC? They may have intended to target some Bengal.......

The one thing that doesn't make sense is, if the gang did it, why did they do it during the day and why go all the way into the Sachkhand thereby increasing time spent and the chances of getting caught rather than just the darbar sahib?

It seems almost certain it was someone who had been there before or at least knew the lay out of the place.

Did any one go to the meeting on Tuesday?

Supposing we are on the right track with the gang thing. The people may have targetted Sachkhand to cause maximum offence. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that burning a holy book is striking deeply against a religious community.

[Kalsingh]

gangs brag, that is common. so it would be obvious if they did it. but the attack just went too well. why werent there more of them? why one guy? why do people say he looked somali (they dont get on with afro-caribean blacks, so a somali wouldnt be part of the lfc)? and lets face it the sikh community does not live in isolation. in areas like that some sikhs end up quite close to their black neighbours, just look at parts of birmingham. something just isnt right about this.

I only read the somali suspect thing from someone on youtube who said someone said it was a somalian or looked somalian. To alot of indians, they don't know the difference between somalians and afro-caribeans in terms of looks even. I can tell the difference but alot can't. I've asked before in situations was the guy a west indian or somalian and they just said black. When i found out, it was somalians therefore they just group all of them as the same. It happens the other way round too when they call all blacks somalian.

Basically what i'm saying is, is that it probably werent a somalian. It was apparently a black or mixed race person.

My friend, they are bragging. Quoting their name after saying we burnt your books is not bragging?

There was one guy so that they reduced their chances of getting caught. Again i say it, why (i just don't know) don't people want to believe it was the gang in question?

I don't know what you mean in the last part about sikhs getting close to their black neighbours. If you mean they would get on, correct me if i'm wrong then i know otherwise. I've experienced racism from a black person (may have been mixed race) and another mixed race person. One was in hayes and another was in Heston and i've seen him in southall. These are englands punjabs yet theres blatant racism here. I knew of a crew of apne in a school in hounslow who were having fights with kalay. It seemed race based and i also learnt that there was beef between asians in southall and a black gang once all in the same school. That was race based. The kalay were picking on apne for being studious. Even my gori sociology teacher knew about it in uxbridge, shes the one who taught us about it.