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Truth is truth. If you want to rely on history then face it like a man and accept the fact that most nihungs did nothing like puratan singhs. Why use puratan singhs to satisfy your taste when we should be looking at their jeevans and kurbani.

yes truth is truth and same is the comment in which most word is used ... 'most' of nihangs ... how many nihangs do u know ... can u even name 10 nihang u have speand ur days with ... people dont even know about 1 percent of stuff yet they feel they can make judgements about most ... there jivan is like this there jivan is like ... how much responsible such comments and such personalities are only god knows ... and u said about following someones jeevan ... when someone is sikhi some one is inspired by some gursikh do u think the very next day he start following 100 percent indentical jeevan ... its human tendency to do things in step he follows easy things first then moves up the hard ways ... and the truth those who claim to follow 100 percent jeevan of some great singhs they are lieing ...

Gurbani does not advocate eating meat. Neither do Vaars. Or are you insinuating that rehat doesn't exist in Gurbani/Vaars? Because it does.

so are u saying gurbani doesnt advocate eating meat and as rehat is dependent on gurbani it also doesnt advocate but u also said puratan singhs did for survival ... now what should i make out of ur two statements

1 gurbani doesnt allow maas but rehat does so rehat is not based on gurbani

2 gurbani doesnt allow and so does rehat that makes all puratan singhs non sikhs

3 gurbani says one can leave rehat in times of survival

We can do veechar on some sakhis you want to use to prove your point. Let's bring 'em forward. Keep in mind that I agree that Singhs ate meat in 18th century but that doesn't justify eating meat is accepted in Gurbani. Gurbani approval is different than history approval. If you believe Guru Sahib always ate jhatka surely bring out your facts.

again the same twisted words ... do u think singhs of 18th century didnt had geyan of guru granth sahib or they kept need for survival above of gurubani ... or they didnt twisted gurbani to satisfy there thinking ? i know the mahan sikh itehas i m talking about and someone doing beadbi of such mahan gursikhs with his twisted scholorish gurbani meanings just to prove what they did was not under gurbani approval .. i dont wanna let that happen ... its better to stay quite under such conditions ... some one is trying do divide guru nanak sahibs veechardhara from guru gobind singhs veechardhara some one trying to divide guru gobind singh veechardhara from guru panth khalsas veechardhara ... and now people are dividing gurbani from history of khalsa panth ...

You will have to show me some credible evidence that Baba Deep Singh, Baba Gurbakash Singh, Bhai Sukha Singh and Bhai Mehtab Singh ate jhatka. Also was jhatka served at Gurmattas at Akal Takhat? How often did Bhai Mani Singh prepare jhatka at Darbar Sahib?

baba deep singh and baba gurbakash singh were nihang singhs of tarna dal its itehas and mareyada is front of us ...

mehatab singhs grandson wrote panth parkash and he wrote it clearly when nawab kappor singh got navabi in the sikh camp meat was being prepared and he also mentions about the diet of jassa singh aluwalia that he ate one bakra a day ...

and if u say jhatka was never done at akal takth sahib ur again quite wrong ... mareyada of jhatka at takths was only the bhog of akhand path sahib sri dasam granth ... and till sri dasam granth was parkashed at akal takth sahib jhatka was performed at akal takth sahib ... even during times of bhai mani singh ... every sikh historian is clear about i doubt how u missed it ...

I don't know how this relates to the topic but if you are accusing me of following "custom" maryada then you are wrong. I follow maryada given to me by Panj Pyare. Nihungs don't follow Akal Takhat maryada either. Aren't they "custom maryada followers"?

will did ur post related to nihang singhs and 1984 related to topic ... i dont think so ... i was just trying to be like u ...

I never wrote that puratan Singhs never ate meat. Some may have but no one can prove that every single one did or it was part of the rehat. It is meat eaters like yourself who say that Singhs lived in jungle, did hunting and then ate meat. This is why I made this point. They may have eaten it for their survival which slowly became part of their regular lifestyle but it doesn't make it part of rehat. If you want to mimic puratan Singhs then at least be up to their level of jeevan.

again the same thing ok do u see such puratan singh as gursikhs ... and do u see sant baba nand singh jee as a gursikh and even as a sikh ... keeping in mind these words bina rehat na sikh khaye ... or they are under category of non rehat followers gursikhs ???

The current maryada doesn't state that only jhatka is accepted. I believe 'kutha' refers to butchered meat not halal. Do Nihungs follow the Akal Takhat maryada fully? No. A Sikh is supposed to be faithful to Akal Takhat not to taksal or dal. Call me whatever you want. I am not bothered by it and it certainly doesn't prove you right.

History cannot be justified when against Gurbani/Vaars. This forum doesn't allow discussion/debate on meat. So I won't post much on whether to eat meat or not but I would like you to start a new topic and bring out the sakhis which you think prove Guru Sahib ate meat. We can discuss those from Gurmat point of view.

hukamnama from sri akal takth sahib in 1980s makes it clear sikh cannot be considered a tankhaiya for eating meating as long as it is jhatka ... do u follow hukamnama of akal takth sahib ... no nihangs dont follow mareyada fully and they claim it openly ... thats what i was trying to say ... we dont follow merayada of akal takth and we can say it openly here and every where ... but unlike those who claim to be under the kesri nishan of sri akal takth sahib but backstabbing it by pushing there custom made mareyada in sikhs ... by lieing to people that panthic mareyada says this even when its totally opposite ...

singh ji u are most welcome to start the new topic ... u must be knowing all the sakhis u cant start posting them with gurmat point of view ... i m sorry if i offended u you ... but again sorry to say its double faced kind of stuff following panthic mareyada and challenging it on the same time ... i dont promote eating meat in sikhi ... i always promote eating simple is best thats what i follow ... but replacing chicken burgers with cheese burgers is no where near sikhi ... becuase in the end the attachment to taste will stand between a sikh and mukti not chicken or saag ... everything has a life and one should see god in all not just murge and bakre ... sorry again sometimes anger makes be blind and i post in kinda disrespectfull way ...

Mod Note: Topic is NOT meat, so stick to topic please. All posts on meat from now on will be deleted straight away!

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Guru Sahib never gave an instruction to eat meat. Word Jhatka is not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib or in Dasam Granth.

is the word dahi(yoghurt) mentioned? or parothe? or apples or bananas? if you are only going to eat food that Aad Guru talks about then lets have a list of the foods contained therein. and then if all the sikhs can stick to it.

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I think it's pretty clear that Sikhs in certain time periods ate meat. That being said, it is not an optimal practice for someone on this marg, which is why most sants are so deadset against it. In fact, it is detrimental. A vegetarian diet that lacks vegetables (ie. what sooooooooo many eat) is also detrimental. But in the latter case they do not get the bad karm that eating meat brings. Also, meat is considered tamsic, and hence worse than any rajjsic non-maass food. Although rajsic foods are also meant to be limited.

Mahan scholar and bhramgiani Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Bhindrenwale's position was that Sikhs are not allowed to eat meat at all, unless they have absolutely no choice in which case they can do chatka with their own sword and eat that.

:)

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Guest puratanJattSikh

Yes, we have now come to such a time where other sikhs are telling the Akali Nihang khalsa fauj what to eat and not to eat.

Is this what we have made of the khalsa?

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yes truth is truth and same is the comment in which most word is used ... 'most' of nihangs ... how many nihangs do u know ... can u even name 10 nihang u have speand ur days with ... people dont even know about 1 percent of stuff yet they feel they can make judgements about most

All right man. If it makes you feel better…My father took Amrit from nihung dal of Baba Gurdit Singh, best friend of Sant Singh, back in the 60s. He stayed as a nihung until he transferred to Taksal in early 70s. My two uncles till this day are nihungs. No they do not eat meat or drink bhang. I still have pictures of nihungs back from those days and know much about their jeevan they you can imagine. I still meet some of them when I go back. I simply do not like to show off and post this stuff to boost my ego.

so are u saying gurbani doesnt advocate eating meat and as rehat is dependent on gurbani it also doesnt advocate but u also said puratan singhs did for survival ... now what should i make out of ur two statements

Much of the rehat is based on Gurbani and Vaars. Many of the fundamental principles can be found in Gurbani and Vaars. First rehatnama written by Bhai Chaupa Singh (not available now) was written with reference to Gurbani. My take is that Gurbani is against eating meat whether jhatka or halal. Vaars do not advocate it either.

again the same twisted words ... do u think singhs of 18th century didnt had geyan of guru granth sahib or they kept need for survival above of gurubani ... or they didnt twisted gurbani to satisfy there thinking ? i know the mahan sikh itehas i m talking about and someone doing beadbi of such mahan gursikhs with his twisted scholorish gurbani meanings just to prove what they did was not under gurbani approval .. i dont wanna let that happen ... its better to stay quite under such conditions ... some one is trying do divide guru nanak sahibs veechardhara from guru gobind singhs veechardhara some one trying to divide guru gobind singh veechardhara from guru panth khalsas veechardhara ... and now people are dividing gurbani from history of khalsa panth ...

Don’t beat around the bush. Prove that Guru Sahib ate jhatka and he approved it. Guru Sahib is the best ideal we should follow. Not all Puratan Singhs had the same diet. You yourself accuse Baba Banda Singh of doing all sorts of manmat. Now what happened to “puratan Singhs had gyan”? Sikhs these days have the tendency to justify their manmat by claiming it “puratan”. Don’t start accusing me of dividing veechardhara of Guru Nanak Sahib’s from Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s. There are many sakhis from history that prove many Singhs did not eat meat. Giani Gian Singh writes that Guru Sahib ate afeem. Should we accept it? Some scholars write that Guru Sahib worshipped goddess. Should we accept it? This manmat comes from 18th century sources. Study the period (not just Panth Parkash) when Sikhs started to mix together with Hinduism. By the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, you find most of Sikhs going to Hindu pilgrimage. This was all due to settling back in the cities after 1765. Not everything puratan Singhs did was 100% gurmat. How about Jassa Singh killing his own daughter? How about Bhai Mani Singh rearranging Bani?

baba deep singh and baba gurbakash singh were nihang singhs of tarna dal its itehas and mareyada is front of us ...

mehatab singhs grandson wrote panth parkash and he wrote it clearly when nawab kappor singh got navabi in the sikh camp meat was being prepared and he also mentions about the diet of jassa singh aluwalia that he ate one bakra a day ...

Still does not prove they ate meat. What is the evidence that Tarna Dal has stayed the same? Did they drink bhang also? You would probably say yes but Gurbani clearly rejects it. Tarna Dal and Buddha Dal did not exist in 1699. Therefore you cannot prove that Tarna Dal maryada is from Guru Sahib. I have read about diet of Bhai Jassa Singh and Nawab Kapoor Singh but this information does not come from contemporary sources but sources that were written much later. Not all sources are unanimous on this. It still does not prove that Guru Sahib ate jhatka. Should we follow what Bhangu has written to prepare Amrit?

and if u say jhatka was never done at akal takth sahib ur again quite wrong ... mareyada of jhatka at takths was only the bhog of akhand path sahib sri dasam granth ... and till sri dasam granth was parkashed at akal takth sahib jhatka was performed at akal takth sahib ... even during times of bhai mani singh ... every sikh historian is clear about i doubt how u missed it ...

Again provide evidence. Any record from Akal Takhat? By this you are insinuating that meat is part of langar. Correct? How many goats were slaughtered at Gurmattas and the blood spilled n the parikarma? At least have some decency to leave Guru Sahib and Gurdwaras out to justify your opinions.

again the same thing ok do u see such puratan singh as gursikhs ... and do u see sant baba nand singh jee as a gursikh and even as a sikh ... keeping in mind these words bina rehat na sikh khaye ... or they are under category of non rehat followers gursikhs ???

I see them as Gursikhs but doesn’t mean I agree with eating meat. Not all Sikhs kept the same rehat. I can name other gursikhs who never ate meat and were against it. Some nihungs I know and my father knew did not eat meat either. This is the problem with justifying Gurmat based on history. Do you not accept Taksal Sants as gursikhs who did not eat meat and did not consider it part of the rehat.

we dont follow merayada of akal takth and we can say it openly here and every where

So how loyal are nihungs to Akal Takhat then? Zilch. At least I am not promoting a “custom maryada” or opposing Akal Takhat Sahib. On this topic I simply disagree with the definition of kutha.

becuase in the end the attachment to taste will stand between a sikh and mukti not chicken or saag

Attachment to taste is different than what to eat and what not to eat. Eating anything for taste is manmat but it doesn’t mean everything can be eaten as part of regular diet. Sikhs cannot exist without Gurbani and therefore anything we portray as part of Gurmat must be justified from Gurbani first. Gurbani does talk about what to eat and what not to eat (not list of foods but what kinds).

is the word dahi(yoghurt) mentioned? or parothe?

First of all, it is Guru Granth Sahib not “Aad Bir” anymore. Second, no one justifies eating yogurt based on Gurbani. No one says eating daal is part of rehat and therefore must whereas you justify jhatka as part of rehat which then must have Gurmat reasoning. What is your point? Meat is okay in Gurmat or only jhatka? Either way Gurbani does not justify it.

I rather discuss Gurbani Shabads on this topic rather than history. History does not define Gurmat. Guru Rakha

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Guru Sahib never gave an instruction to eat meat. Word Jhatka is not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib or in Dasam Granth.

is the word dahi(yoghurt) mentioned? or parothe? or apples or bananas? if you are only going to eat food that Aad Guru talks about then lets have a list of the foods contained therein. and then if all the sikhs can stick to it.

Beans, Rice and Roti are mentioned in this pangti :D

kbIr KUbu Kwnw KIcrI jw mih AMimRqu lonu ]

kabeer khoob khaanaa kheecharee jaa mehi a(n)mrith lon ||

Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.

hyrw rotI kwrny glw ktwvY kaunu ]188]

haeraa rottee kaaranae galaa kattaavai koun ||188||

Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188||

Mod Note: Thanks for the Gurbani tuk. And with that, topic closed.

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