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A Question To Fellow My Brothers And Sisters?


Guest confusingh
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As interesting as this thread is its useless!

Extremists? Taksaal Maryada? Naam Japna? None of your points are fully developed into an argument that is feasible.

Bottom line is walk into the Gurdwara go to the office speak to the receptionist and book an appointment to air your "confusion" with the "extremists".

Its not as if anyone on this forum can do that for you. (no offence to anyone)

I agree with shastr- naam japna is the biggest thing in Sikhi.

Also Akritghan is right- what is wrong with teaching Kids Bani?

Bhul Chuk Maaf!!

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more like, your someone who just came on the forum to cause issues, let us know which gurdvara it is and they saadh sangat can adress them properly. I doubt that its a Puratan Maryada following gurdvara as there only a few left in england and i can probably name them from the top of my head.

Regarding wheelchairs etc, to an extent your right, walking sticks - can be washed at the bottom and cleaned and taken in - that bit i think your lying about

Regarding the water thing - its maryada, but no where does it state that you dont need to do abhiyaas from guru granth sahib jee.

I doubt that your speaking the truth about half the things that you say.

P.S this isnt leeds your talking about.

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Guest confusingh

Waherguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

No im sorry you've totally put forward an uncontextual point,

my point isn't useless at all a person voices concerns on a Sikh forum, you're faced with something you're not comfortable with and you claim its useless... I have voiced out my concerns, however if I go in to specific cases I will be giving up the name of the Guru Ghar (WHICH REGARDLESS OF OTHERS SAYING I DONT WANT TO DO, ITS DISRESPECTFUL TO THE COMMUNITY) these people don't want intelligent debates and when one has took place, it's not actually been too enlightening...

Those who have extensively studied Sikh theology may agree that Sikhi is in no way supersticious, and is about a constant thrive for Gian... just because i'm a new poster doesn't by any means you should dismiss my post because it may not seem 'orthodox' to you... but sorry what these people are practicing is not Sikhi... when I sit down and say to them ok well where in Guru Maharaj's words does it say to you that one doesn't need to interpret Baani... if you chant words with total disregard for the meaning and context of these intricately strung together words which our previous Guru ji's (they were amazingly intelligent!) have put together in order to educate Sikhs and actually carry out their Dharam of being on a journey of enlightenment and truth... surely this will make you a better Sikh...

Even Japji Sahib ji and several other paaths guide us this way...

'mat vich ratan javaahar maanik jay ik gur kee sikh sunee.' Within the mind are gems, jewels and rubies, when the Sikh listens to the One Guru...

I personally all my life have chose to read bani myself and learn from paath and Guru Maharaj's guidance as well as the odd debate with Giani's.. This helps me learn about Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, however if one chooses to dismiss any intelligent thinking... say NOBODY should really bother learning in so many words... WELL WHY WOULD GURU JI give us Bani if it was not for us to learn and gain guidance for...

Now I feel Sikhi has been diluted in different Guru Ghar I have visited there always tends to be a divide, the brothers and sisters who see themselves as having authority in our local gurdwara claim they follow teachings of Sant so and so... and sant so and so... list is endless they won't ever actually refer to the GREATEST knowledge of the world which is Bani... I went on a trip to India in order to help people out there via eye camps, educational classes, teaching at small guru ghars in isolated pinds, did my TEFL in order to help youngsters out there too... when I spoke of people participating and helping fellow singhs and non-singhs... it was surprisingly said I'm a Manmukh... because a 'true sikh' should be doing constant naam japna... however again in Japji Sahib Ji

sochai soch naa hov-a-ee jay sochee lakh vaar

By thinking and thinking again a hundred thousand times, one cannot find a solution

chupai chup naa hov-a-ee jay laa-i rahaa liv taar

By being quiet, peace cannot be found even if poised deep in meditation forever

Does this not clearly guide Sikhs towards action and action which is Sachaiee and pure...

As other posters have said, maybe I have come to the wrong place to discuss this... and maybe i'm going to get a response from an extremist who has no desire to learn about Bani... I don't know but I still do see all Sikhs as my fellow brothers... I hope you can help me shed some light on this situation...

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karna

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Guest confusingh

This way is a half hearted approach to Sikhi... its nonsensical...and illogical and strays as far away as possible from what Sikhi stands for, they are isolating young Sikhs and pushing people away from rituals such as aarti every painting of Guru ji has a haar around it, they openly use Hindu rituals and they always preach to people how we need to gain independence, and I agree many of my family members were made Shaheed and our family have also regarded Sant Jarnail Singh Ji as a great man and a courageous martyr... however to these people who are practicing Sikhi half heartedly and blingly HOW CAN WE SIKHS HAVE INDEPENDENCE WHEN THESE PEOPLE ARE OPENLY TRYING TO MIX OUR RELIGION WITH HINDUISM BY USING THESE BRAHMIN STYLE RITUALS AND IDOL WORSHIP!! ITS BEADBI IF ANYTHING!

We need to obtain a spiritual Miri and Piri ....Miri being our POLITICAL SOVEREIGNITY and Piri being our SPIRITUAL SOVEREIGNITY... meaning when making moral decisions we are free from external sources (the refering to sants rather than Bani) and pure and true in our path to Akaal... but if we dilute this all we are going to see, is Sikhs crumble away and divide within each other... which Bani is against and also totally disillusion the youngsters so we have a handful of young extremists which to our community is useless.. im 6 ft and been competitively weightlifting since i was 15... stopped now,,, but i know half of these bandhay that stopped the gym in our guru ghar and can't even pick up an atte dha bora aren't chardhi kallah whatsoever...

ENLIGHTENING YOUR MIND... is the path of Sikhi!

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Just as the fire needs fuel to burn so does Naam Japna need Gurbani, these can never be seperated. The fuel on its own will serve no purpose if it's the fire/heat we are looking for. Similarly the fire cannot ignite on its own. By doing Naam Jap we light our little jot inside ourselves and only then can we light other jots, just like from one candle to another. But to keep the light burning we must have Gurbani as the fuel.

And to those who think Naam Japna is the easy way out, think again. As the mind jumps from one thought to another like a restless monkey, Gurbani written in the original format as The Guru did in laareevar form, brings the monkey to check. (Lareevar especially because of the concentration required to read Gurbani).

Naam Japna is not braminical chanting , it is what The Guru repeatedly asks us to do.

If God is extremely good, extremely wonderful, extremely loving, does that make me an extremist for wanting to emulate those characteristics????

Bhai Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale did alot of sewa backed with kamai and perhaps previous lives of unconditional devoted love of Waheguru. So did alot of singhs and singhneea that we do not/will not ever hear about. We salute all of them equally. It would be unfair to uplift the status of the very Singhs who genuinely thought of themselves as the lowest of the low, unlike the dozens, nay hundreds of Sant Babae who roam around the world fleecing sangats emotional love and maya.

Worse things happen in this world when Good people don't do anything......

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None of your points regarding the Gurdwara's activities seem anti Sikhi!!!!!!

Your trying to make a dig at the Taksaal and how the committee are running the Gurughar.

If it hurts u so much why dont u find another Gurughar or take my advice from before and go and speak to the committee.

People like you make issues out of absolutley nothing and then continue to post on the site as way to create some sort of support for your cause. It does not seem like anyone on Sikh sangat is going to be able to help you. (no offence to anyone)

Unless the Gurughar is doing a major beadbhi to Maharaj, there is hardly any point in continuing the thread.

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Guest confusingh
None of your points regarding the Gurdwara's activities seem anti Sikhi!!!!!!

Your trying to make a dig at the Taksaal and how the committee are running the Gurughar.

If it hurts u so much why dont u find another Gurughar or take my advice from before and go and speak to the committee.

People like you make issues out of absolutley nothing and then continue to post on the site as way to create some sort of support for your cause. It does not seem like anyone on Sikh sangat is going to be able to help you. (no offence to anyone)

Unless the Gurughar is doing a major beadbhi to Maharaj, there is hardly any point in continuing the thread.

You seem to be really dismissive of any concern one raises, the whole 'brush it under the carpet' attitude responses i've seen are shocking but i really did hope waheguru would give our young educated men and women kirpa to understand logic...

bhul chuk maaf karna i'll seek another source of intelligent logical advice

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Sorry but I had to highlight this which immediately caught my attention,

um.....naam japna is the biggest thing in sikhi, which enables everything else. and yes, we are suppose to jap naam 24/7 as maharaj tells us countless times.

"jo saas giraas thiyaye mera har har, so gursikh guru mann bhavai"

"aath pehar nanak gur jaap"

"simar simar simar gun taas"

"saas saas simro gobind, mann antar ki otherai chind"

"aath pehar tere gun gaaiya"

"aath pehar ram naam vaparo"

"aath pehar tudh jaape pavna"

theres are tons of other tuks that tell us to jaap naam 24 hours a day.

i would rather do 100 jap ji sahibs everyday and not know wat it means, rather knowing wat it means but only doing 1. because naam and bani works like a computer, automatically works inside our body and fixes things, but only if u have enought of it.

With all due respect, the highlighted line shocked me...

...if thats how sikhi's supposed to work then a lot of people here might be following the wrong religion! otherwise they're doing it the wrong way!!

If you sit and tell someone to say "god" 24/7 they will not reach enlightenment.... the whole point is through understanding the beautiful words of Guru ji, a persons mind is open to the ways of a better life and so through methods outlined, such as naam japna will attain this higher living..... personally, I would rather be shown the beauty of naam japna once, than to be told to do it infinitessimally believing it will do something good for me.

Maybe i'm wrong, sorry if i am but surely its when people sit down and LEARN about sikhi they fall in love with it?

--------

anyway,

A gurdwara has its primary objectives- but aside from that, if it can do anything to furthur its efforts then it should!!

Some people complain Gurdwaras do too little, others say too much, but surely a Gurdwara should do however much it can, outside of providing the basics...

If you are saying this Gurdwara does not meet basic requirements of a Gurdwara then this is an issue...if your saying the extra provisions are not the right ones, then this you have to take up through the committee.

It doesnt seem they are doing anything BAD, but they are also in essence, doing the militant thing- cencorship.

If they have the facilities available to them (which it seems at one point they did) then they should encourage sikhs to LEARN and find their own path....those who follow blindly will never take the right turns to Guru ji's house...whats worse is that they are told they will... Sikhs aren't sheep!

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