A Question To Fellow My Brothers And Sisters?

[Harjeet.Singh]

It seems that Mr Confusingh takes to PMing people when he doesnt like their response.

Not very good at taking advice are we?

One thing I've always disliked is lies... and that right there is a lie! ,, as well as being quite un intelligent and unable to debate a point... you also lie in order to further your cause! (or assume something without having the ability to think 'oh hang on maybe confusingh hasn't PM'd me because if I did wouldn't my name be on it also I would know if I sent it) cut the lies!

I have not PM'd you, little girl I assure you of that!

I wouldn't waste my time, nor was any of your advice useful or intelligent, neither would I bother attempting to PM you, it isn't me so get your facts right and cut the lies!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

You posted here seeking advice. You looked on the outside for answers. On the outside people can only voice their opinions. Only you truly know what is going on. So its up to you to decide. Follow what your heart says. Im sure you can see something genuinely wrong in your Gurdwara. But to be able to communicate and voice what you see to others is extremely hard. Sometimes words cannot describe what you can see. So it is better for people to experience it for themselves. My point is sub consiously you posted here seeking mental gratification, but since you have not heard the answers you were looking for, the answers in your own heart, you have rebelled. This can lead to anger, and taking it out on individuals. Remember this is your problem, you are the one to fix it. Listen to your inner voice, discuss the matter with God if its seriously troubling you. Asking someone on the outside, is just their perception, their opinion. But only you know the truth. It would be better to, to let someone else share your experience, i.e. telling them which Gurdwara you are talking about, then let us see for ourselves. Remember we can't see what you are seeing, so its hard for us to give you real advice.

[Samadhi]

I some what agree with Confus Singh.

Gurmat should be understood. The teachings of the Gurus understood. The aim of doing paath is to reach a point one day to do veechar of the shabads.

Everyone is going on like understand is not important, but then what is the need for all these kathavachaks, translation, gurbani steeks, sikhitothemax, Sikh channels etc...

Reading without understanding is the first stage of doing paath but you have to move on from this stage eventually to doing arths and veechar of shabads thats where you'll find ras

[1kAuR1]

It seems that Mr Confusingh takes to PMing people when he doesnt like their response.

Not very good at taking advice are we?

One thing I've always disliked is lies... and that right there is a lie! ,, as well as being quite un intelligent and unable to debate a point... you also lie in order to further your cause! (or assume something without having the ability to think 'oh hang on maybe confusingh hasn't PM'd me because if I did wouldn't my name be on it also I would know if I sent it) cut the lies!

I have not PM'd you, little girl I assure you of that!

I wouldn't waste my time, nor was any of your advice useful or intelligent, neither would I bother attempting to PM you, it isn't me so get your facts right and cut the lies!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

Well well well little boy.............getting someone else to pm for you is hardly a brave way of putting your point across.

Confusingh or cobra commander or whatever your name is, you cant take peoples advice so there is harldy any point in asking? Your not brave enough to walk into the Gurughar and air your issues and cannot even name the Gurdwara, I mean how can anyone take you seriously?

All you have been able to prove is that you dont agree with Taksaal Maryada and for some unknown reason naam japna is not part of Sikhi.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh

[Guest confusingh]

Sikhi is so much more intricate and delicately designed in order to give a person food for thought, thats why i cant understand this sort of half hearted approach saying 'oh its ok nobody learn how to read and write just memorise your paath and you're fine, even if you don't have a clue what you're saying'

honestly can everybody here say they have the same perception of Sikhi as our grandparents have? I don't!

They resort to using Sakhiyan in every point they make, they cant read so obviously have never read Bani, they are Sikhs and pure from the heart but its not really Sikhi they are following its just a movement within Sikhi in order to try and make it a bit more Brahminical... knowledge has always been prominent in Sikhi and has been used as the focus in great momentous pieces like the Zaffarnama which Guru Ji wrote one of the best poetic compositions I've read in a long time!

My point here is that if Guru ji wanted people to use brahmin approaches then wouldn't have these clearly been implemented in Sikh writings and our scriptures? They're not so what is the use of aarti and dhoof and haar on pictures in Sikhi? We are not superstitious in our faith therefore I don't believe preachers and leaders should give a falsified approach to Sikhi when it is clearly not evidented properly! Anybody above the reading age of 5 can take words out of context and adapt their approach which they take a guess at being correct, the reason more and more sangat is becoming disillusioned with our leaders is because of the inconsistency the failure to answer questions using Bani and instead opting to use approaches which may not be the most accurate and the most divine sources as a Sikh; after all 'Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyon Granth' therefore shouldn't we refer all our question to Bani?

ALSO apologies to 1kaur1 if i said anything wrong then bhul chuk maaf karo, however your initial post was a lie and i have not PM'd you ever before!

[GuptSinghani]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

In response to your last post confusingh, I am having santhia of Paath and am memorising it. It isnt in any way a brahmanical practice, as you read to bani more and more you begin to understand it. The whole point of santhia is to read and pronounce bani correctly, and when we do we can understand it. To be honest you cant get your gurbani santhia until you can at least read your penthi akhaar. In any case a basic knowledge of punjabi is required.

You mentioned the older generation of Sikhs, your right most cant read but do listen to bani. My Grandmother cant read but has memorised her nitnem. Are you trying to say that it is stupid of her to do so because she cant read punjabi?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

[1kAuR1]

ALSO apologies to 1kaur1 if i said anything wrong then bhul chuk maaf karo, however your initial post was a lie and i have not PM'd you ever before!

I would also like to apologise for my accusation. But it is weird that I get Pmed about this topic right after I have made my second post. Anyway I still stand by my first post!

[Guest confusingh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

In response to your last post confusingh, I am having santhia of Paath and am memorising it. It isnt in any way a brahmanical practice, as you read to bani more and more you begin to understand it. The whole point of santhia is to read and pronounce bani correctly, and when we do we can understand it. To be honest you cant get your gurbani santhia until you can at least read your penthi akhaar. In any case a basic knowledge of punjabi is required.

You mentioned the older generation of Sikhs, your right most cant read but do listen to bani. My Grandmother cant read but has memorised her nitnem. Are you trying to say that it is stupid of her to do so because she cant read punjabi?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

No not stupid by any means, they are siaaney to us and i hold a lot of respect for elders.

However, interpretation and knowing are not the same things, interpretation provokes thought and is the key to gaining knowledge, however simply just reading and not paying any attention to any intricacy or underlying message which is implemented isn't gaining you any knowledge and Sikhs as a religion just don't believe uttering words can have an adverse effect on your purity by anybodys standards, thats just not what even the fundamentals of our religion are based upon.

If a person interprets something contextually and can apply it as a maxim; that therefore leads that person to understanding and striving for further knowledge of Gurbani, Gurbani is for Sikhs a divine source, so therefore we should be able to look solely upon Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj for guidance and a way to better as people and Sikhs.

What I can't understand is how posts keep reverting to some sense of power containing words which are just spoken and 'boom' a miracle occurs and you understand it all... was Sikhi not brought (as well as Damdami Taksal) in the period of a social reform where misconceptions were taking place and superstitions were placed in value; these were brahminical practices, which are taking priority more and more nowadays... As a community its the panjabi in us that fails to take an approach of understanding and logic, the Sikh in us is what strives for this... We find it hard to hear when somebody says ' maybe this is the truth ?' and ultimately most 14 year old kids (hormones all over the place) say kirpan chako!... but thats not really Sikhi, thats immaturity surely? Sade Singhan'ch Josh Bohut hai, Hosh Ghat ya... ultimately by the means of debate, education and intelligent thinking Sikhi will be practiced as Sikhi and not mixed up with other cuts of rituals and practices!

You guys are all educated ppl, hopefully you can get my point, words do not possess power without knowledge. If your mind is a gun you are firing without bullets if you have no knowledge of what you are saying.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[GuptSinghani]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

You mentioned that interpretation of reading bani is not the exact or actual meaning of it.

Bani is written to apply to all yet we all are different and are at different stages of life. This means that as we interpret bani we are able to apply it to our lives. Bani or Sikhi is not textbook, we cant pick up a book and say yep that is what bani/Sikhi means. On the other hand there is translated versions of Bani that Attempt to explain Bani but there is not one concrete entity that has been able to explain Bani, Bhai Gurdas ji's vaars are considered the key to Gurbani. We should look to them for guidance.

Katha is also a good way to understand Bani, the kathavachak will tell you in plain language what Bani is saying. However it is for you to interpret the message and apply it to your life.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Akal Purkh Ki Fauj]

am i the only one that thinks the gurudwara sahib has been taken over by idiots and not extremists???? or am i just confused.

and whats up with people calling everyone extremist???

Extremists is a typical Sanatan response as well as pseudo sikh or talibanised sikh + many others. They like to make every sikh that would reject their "hindu sikh sanatan" view point to be an extemist who is a bi-product of the british raj in india

[Guest confusingh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

You mentioned that interpretation of reading bani is not the exact or actual meaning of it.

Bani is written to apply to all yet we all are different and are at different stages of life. This means that as we interpret bani we are able to apply it to our lives. Bani or Sikhi is not textbook, we cant pick up a book and say yep that is what bani/Sikhi means. On the other hand there is translated versions of Bani that Attempt to explain Bani but there is not one concrete entity that has been able to explain Bani, Bhai Gurdas ji's vaars are considered the key to Gurbani. We should look to them for guidance.

Katha is also a good way to understand Bani, the kathavachak will tell you in plain language what Bani is saying. However it is for you to interpret the message and apply it to your life.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Yes I agree, and you've just stated my point, so what part does ritualism play within Bani? Why do we have the need for rituals and approaches to Sikhi which just ARE NOT Sikhi, when we're young like 5 or 6 yeah ok we accept what happens at Guru Ghar because we know no better, but now we as Sikh adults, don't we have the right to question these rituals that are taking place in Guru Ghars all over the world, is this really Sikhi? or are we just adopting approaches to seem more like an 'orthodox' belief system, rather than giving Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj our full vishwaas? Extremist views and nonsensical belief is not Sikhi, blind faith is no faith at all, its lacking the ability to interpret, learn and question. There are several stories within Sikhi which fully support this view as well as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so why in this day and age are we still reverting to following practices which have no place in a monotheistic equal righteous humanitarian religion such as Sikhi, which places no value on superstitions!