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A Question To Fellow My Brothers And Sisters?

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

This is where I am confused, you keep mentioning aarti- it was actually written by Guru Nanak Dev Ji and is bani. How can you say it is ritualistic?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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why dont u just say the name of the gurdwara so other people in the area can also go and see what is going on and if anything wrong is going on help to get it sorted.

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you know i was confused at first what kind of person you were, i thought first you might be someone who has strong views on Sikhi and these "singhs" have come into your gurdwara and started doing "rituals" so you had every right to be upset! Singha ur a bookworm! and you can take what with the full offense it is intended to carry! Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj not only speaks of reciting God's name, there are many sakhi's and lessons to be learnt from Maharaj's Bani. You talk about people who have blind faith in Sikhi and their Guru, my brother, you have NO faith! Aarti aarta happens at Sachkand Sri Hazzor Sahib everyday, great mahapuraks have gone to Sri Hazoor Sahib and have never said once stop these rituals, they have in fact gne there and had darshan on Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj! I agree we should not do rituals and believe all stories we are told, but if people who have had darshan of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj have no objection to singhs doing aarti aarta, then who am i to stop them?

"My whole point has been to read and understand Bani rather than just say words that hold no value to the individual." did u not read the sakhi posted before about the prostitute? if not read it and think again about what you have said. Like i said you have no knowledge of Sikhi, neither do i, which is why Maharaj has given me the answer to all my questions!

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Guest confusingh
you know i was confused at first what kind of person you were, i thought first you might be someone who has strong views on Sikhi and these "singhs" have come into your gurdwara and started doing "rituals" so you had every right to be upset! Singha ur a bookworm! and you can take what with the full offense it is intended to carry! Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj not only speaks of reciting God's name, there are many sakhi's and lessons to be learnt from Maharaj's Bani. You talk about people who have blind faith in Sikhi and their Guru, my brother, you have NO faith! Aarti aarta happens at Sachkand Sri Hazzor Sahib everyday, great mahapuraks have gone to Sri Hazoor Sahib and have never said once stop these rituals, they have in fact gne there and had darshan on Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj! I agree we should not do rituals and believe all stories we are told, but if people who have had darshan of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj have no objection to singhs doing aarti aarta, then who am i to stop them?

"My whole point has been to read and understand Bani rather than just say words that hold no value to the individual." did u not read the sakhi posted before about the prostitute? if not read it and think again about what you have said. Like i said you have no knowledge of Sikhi, neither do i, which is why Maharaj has given me the answer to all my questions!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

This is where I am confused, you keep mentioning aarti- it was actually written by Guru Nanak Dev Ji and is bani. How can you say it is ritualistic?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I dont have to explain why im not a bookworm... but trust me im not simply books.. lol

this debate is like speaking to a brick wall you talk about me having no faith, you need to educate yourself a little not just in the academic sense, which you seem to have problems with.

But Aarti is derived from Vedic rituals of fire burning... I seriously don't believe that you were never told or taught these things, Aarti is the Vedic form of singing the praise of a deity... (i.e. you stand in front of a focus of worship and you praise that object) however, aarti in Maharaj ji's hazoori can't be justified due to the incremental rejection of idol worship in Sikhi... Somebody quote Bani or correct me LOGICALLY and I'll accept your point, however lets go further back (don't know why, but just for those who claimed im being too technical and they don't understand lol) but... the composition of 'AARti' is conducted to praise an idol of a deity... in terms of composition Aarti is incremental within Idol worship and also a polytheistic belief system... so other than being well spoken, i've backed my argument up and that is what we call a debate...

Also, the fact of it is, in Bani the term mahapursh and sant is used in a term of people who were forwarding the cause, in the time of a social reform, lets actually think of what was happening back in them days not in the loose sense of anybody who does their opinion of Katha is a sant, your arguments aren't contextual gupt_kaur, its just you saying i'm confused and im a bookworm and i use long words and then concluding with Bani parla,,,, well if you read my previous posts you'd understand that is my point and sorry bhen ji if i sound like im arguing with you because like I've said as fellow Singh and Singhniyan we're all brothers and sisters, but my point is knowledge (GIAN) and being a SIKH (a learner/student/disciple) these are words consistently used throughout Bani therefore don't you think this is key to our faith, to be able to interpret effectively and learn from Maharaj ji.

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

You still are not answering the question, Guru Nanak Dev Ji wrote Aarti for Sikhs whether or not hindu's etc have the same or similar practice does not matter.

We shouldnt dwell on what other faiths do or practice instead need to focus on what Guru Sahib has given to us. How can you preach the importance of Bani etc. and then slander Aarti that is Bani aswell?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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i think this topic should be closed cuz i dnt really get what this singh is saying or is he jus pointing fingers at a group of singhs which are trying to do sumthing for there local sangat and gurkar

if the singh dnt telll us the name of the gurukar whats the point cuz its not getting no where

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Guest confusingh

Look how can you say close a topic when you don't agree with something... tell me how that can make sense? tell me the name of your gurdwara or get the topic closed lol.. what are you 10?

In reference to Aarti I don't mean Aarti as in what Baba RaviDas had performed... but aarti as in the sense that even the composition is performed in the manner of Hindu aarti... an example...

NOWHERE IN BANI DOES IT STATE THAT WE SHOULD BURN FIRE IN ORDER TO PRAISE WAHEGURU! SO WHAT IS WITH THE BATHIYAAN YOU SEE USED IN HINDU AARTI... Singh bano te Pakke Singh Bano!

This cannot be passed off as a prayer within Sikhi, within intelligent educated GurSikhs this has been denounced, in the presence of many sangats who have agreed that Sikhi should not follow ritualism... which alot of people have found it hard to define!!... but Sikhi should be followed in a total monotheistic manner

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Confusingh I agree with you, however it will always be human nature for the uneducated to mask their inferiority by draping themselves with their remedial understanding of organized religion. It happens in every faith, the bible-belt in the United States has some of the most low IQ hillbillies you'll ever meet in your life, but they think they're superior to the educated North because "Jesus is on their side", with Muslims it's pretty evident that the faith has been hijacked by the Taliban, and Sikhs no doubt know all about low-rung right wing Hindu fanaticism. To think that our community is somehow immune would be as ignorant as those you speak against. I also find the lack of many of the artistic aspects of Guru's gift being tossed to the side quite depressing. The lack of studying music, and raag (the raag of which was so important Guru Ji begins with it in every shabad), simply being ignored, and having just a vaja and tabla bang away with rudimentary skill since these committees don't have the teachers themselves to provide the knowledge. What happened to the classical instruments?! Although you say it's Talibinisation, I think it's more everything has been so simplified as to appease those who don't fully understand the religion, have an inferiority complex, and therefore drape themselves in all the garments of Sikhi so they can bully everyone, but really have only a simple understanding of everything. It's like a saying a Christian friend once told me about fake religious types, you can strap a white collar around a donkey, but that doesn't make it no priest.

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i think this topic should be closed cuz i dnt really get what this singh is saying or is he jus pointing fingers at a group of singhs which are trying to do sumthing for there local sangat and gurkar

if the singh dnt telll us the name of the gurukar whats the point cuz its not getting no where

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Why should the topic be closed? - because you cant debate!!! Your mind and thinking is too narrow and not open to learning the REAL philosophy of Sikhi - which is against rituals and braminvad!!! The bani condemns any kind of rituals and all you posting comments against confusingh seem to to be pro-rituals and bramanvad beliefs and philosophy???

I totally agree with confusingh on the philosphy of Sikhi.

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Guest confusingh

^ Veer ji, you're right...

One thing I've failed to understand is that how Idol worship has been prioritised in some sense by these posters and how people can say 'say waheguru a hundred times, and you don't need to read bani' YOU NEED TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE IN ORDER TO BETTER YOURSELF...

Let me make my point clearer, for those posters who found great difficulty in understanding what I was saying:-

'GURU MANEYO GRANTH'

GURU = Teacher

SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI = TEACHER

YOU LEARN OFF OF A TEACHER... AND WE ARE THEIR STUDENTS...

Therefore anybody who says there is no need to learn and take knowledge from bani, and simply reciting it without knowing anything about the meaning or understanding it even vaguely... doesn't fulfill their role effectively as a Sikh...

We were told to not even perfom Idol Worship to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,, therefore we were advised to learn from bani and SOLELY read and understand Bani in the place of our Guru, our teacher throughout our path of Sikhi.... yet we get things from posters such as i'll read a billion jap ji sahibs not know a word and id prefer that to reading Jap Ji Sahib once and thoroughly understanding these precious words and gaining knowledge from it!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

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I would like to go back to the initial post and say that the issues your having at your Gurdwara are not going to be solved on a forum. It would be best for you to deal with the Gurdwara in question.

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^ Veer ji, you're right...

One thing I've failed to understand is that how Idol worship has been prioritised in some sense by these posters and how people can say 'say waheguru a hundred times, and you don't need to read bani' YOU NEED TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE IN ORDER TO BETTER YOURSELF...

Let me make my point clearer, for those posters who found great difficulty in understanding what I was saying:-

'GURU MANEYO GRANTH'

GURU = Teacher

SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI = TEACHER

YOU LEARN OFF OF A TEACHER... AND WE ARE THEIR STUDENTS...

Therefore anybody who says there is no need to learn and take knowledge from bani, and simply reciting it without knowing anything about the meaning or understanding it even vaguely... doesn't fulfill their role effectively as a Sikh...

We were told to not even perfom Idol Worship to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,, therefore we were advised to learn from bani and SOLELY read and understand Bani in the place of our Guru, our teacher throughout our path of Sikhi.... yet we get things from posters such as i'll read a billion jap ji sahibs not know a word and id prefer that to reading Jap Ji Sahib once and thoroughly understanding these precious words and gaining knowledge from it!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Totally agree with you confusingh.

It is the Dereh creating these schools of thought. Its a brainwashing excercise whereby bramanvad philosophy is being excercised through these dereh and so called babeh which is then being exerted by these minorities (who wish to change the maryada in the guru gharr) and implemented in these guru ghar's such as the one you attend up north - and it is these rituals and bramanvad philosophies (one of which is repeating the japp ji sahib over and over again) which from my assessment most of our brothers and sisters on this thread follow!

In my view - comments such as the one made by one poster above that he would rather repeat the Japp Ji sahib a billion time and not understand the meaning are ill founded and have no substance to them.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ke fateh.

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Maybe it's just me, but hasn't this thread turned into a Rehit Bashing Frenzy? I still don't understand what the committee is doing wrong... I don't like reading tons and tons of text.

Can somebody please sum this thread up.

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