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Sikhs And Unity In The Uk


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VJKK VJKF

Sikhs are being attacked from all communities in the Uk, muslims, blacks, whites, hindus etc You always hear that a sikh has got his butt kicked etc We were once the warrior nation that saved hindu women from mughals. Where has the warrior spitit gone? We can't even fight one to one, let alone sava lakh seh ek laroun! We don't train in martial arts that are real, we have no unity within our community, what the hell is going on? Every community walks all over us, we have become a laughing stock.

Don't you think it is time that we had a jatha of 20-30 guys in every city within the UK, who will be able to generate a force by sticking together if the need arised? Don't you think we need training in all gurdwaras around the country? Don't you think we need educating in our rich sikh history in every gudwara, not punjabi classes but sikh history ?

PM if you want to.

Sorry if i have offended anyone.

VJKK VJKF

Fateh!

Forget asking for help in setting up what you are suggesting, as you will not get any. Instead this is what you will get:

- one Sikh telling you that everything is maya and we should just sit in a cave meditating, and cover our eyes and ears when something terrible happens to the Sikh Panth,

- one Sikh will tell you that all you need to do is read some extra paat and God will take care of the rest. (I suppose, by extension, one ought not to study hard, work hard or do anything requiring any effort whatsoever,)

- one Sikh will tell you that we are not warriors anymore because we lack the genes that our forefathers had and we might as well just sit back and be content with being fat, weak and gutless because it is nature to blame, not ourselves (and so you need not feel guilty for your own cowardice),

- one Sikh will tell you not to take your destiny, and the destiny of the Panth, into your own hands as mummy and daddy, and our predominately white middle-class rulers, might get upset that you want self-determination and respect rather than acceptance.

And so on and so on.

I would recommend starting small. Start training yourself, then get together a few friends with whom to work out and to train martial arts. Get used to beating one another senseless (obviously take precautions - gloves, mats, etc), get used to bleeding, get acquainted with pain and learn how to think and act under pressure, learn to deal with the adrenalin dump you will experience when you are in a scary situation, and learn how not sweat the small things like seeing your own blood, getting your dastaar knocked off, and getting hit.

Any good contact martial art is fine to take up - muay thai, boxing, MMA. I would avoid any martial art that places more emphasis on forms practice or relies on mystical concepts like chi and dim mak to get the job done. Look into attending any Krav Maga seminars also as they place special emphasis on detecting danger and learning to act when you are under the kind of stress and fear that will make any unprepared person freeze mentally and physically.

Maybe consider a stint in the regular or territorial army, if you are interested in that sort of thing.

Then, when you are ready, you can put up your training videos on line to inspire others who may think as you do.

The one thing I will definitely recommend is to read a few books on sport psychology, as these go into a lot of depth on the mental and psychological skills possessed by top athletes and sportsman. They will teach you a great deal about how to motivate yourself, how to overcome plateaus in your training, how to deal with pain and injury, and how to remove mental blocks that prevent you from learning and excelling in physical pursuits.

Regards,

K.

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I would recommend starting small. Start training yourself, then get together a few friends with whom to work out and to train martial arts. Get used to beating one another senseless (obviously take precautions - gloves, mats, etc), get used to bleeding, get acquainted with pain and learn how to think and act under pressure, learn to deal with the adrenalin dump you will experience when you are in a scary situation, and learn how not sweat the small things like seeing your own blood, getting your dastaar knocked off, and getting hit.

Any good contact martial art is fine to take up - muay thai, boxing, MMA. I would avoid any martial art that places more emphasis on forms practice or relies on mystical concepts like chi and dim mak to get the job done. Look into attending any Krav Maga seminars also as they place special emphasis on detecting danger and learning to act when you are under the kind of stress and fear that will make any unprepared person freeze mentally and physically.

Maybe consider a stint in the regular or territorial army, if you are interested in that sort of thing.

Then, when you are ready, you can put up your training videos on line to inspire others who may think as you do.

The one thing I will definitely recommend is to read a few books on sport psychology, as these go into a lot of depth on the mental and psychological skills possessed by top athletes and sportsman. They will teach you a great deal about how to motivate yourself, how to overcome plateaus in your training, how to deal with pain and injury, and how to remove mental blocks that prevent you from learning and excelling in physical pursuits.

Regards,

K.

The advice you mentioned, requires someone to have energy, inspiration, motivation and the will to get things accomplished. If it was as simple as you mention why hasn't everybody done it already?

Because they haven't go the energy, inspiration, motivation and the will to get things accomplished. Thats why. The energy and motivation, the fact you are happy in life where does that all come from? It can come from external sources, such as your parents, friends, family, books magazines. Basicially the sangat. But what decides if you have good sangat or bad sangat? Who chooses the family you are going to be born into? Who decides all that. Ultimately we learn from whats around us. WE have to be in the right place at the right time. But who is the one who stages the events we see around us? Who is the one that looks after the Earth, to make sure it doesn't destroyed. Whether by, evil dictators, or natural disasters such as meteorites. Who is in charge of all that?

We need the right nutrition to be healthy. Who decides whether we are going to be born in poverty, or whether we are brought up into a wealthy family? Who is the one who gave you this human life? and has made sure it has been sustained from when you were in the womb.

You could say, "oh nature did it, my parents did it, I did it" Or you can realise that God is behind it all. And whatver you seek, can be obtained from him. Search within ourselves. Not saying things happen by magic, but basicially we are what our sangat is. So go to God and he will give us the right sangat.

That is how humans were designed. Babies learn by copying, and imitation. So you need the right people to copy. Make Guru the person you copy. Because Guru ji was blessed in every single way. What does Guru ji lack? nothing. We humans learn from example. So pick the right example while you still have a chance. you set the example.

All the good and bad thats happened to you, is because the naam simran you did in your past, including past lives. Naam is everything. It's simple more naam we do more rewards we get. This can be in the form of having, energy and the motivation to do things. You can say "i worked hard im so proud of myself" or you can say "God made me work hard, Thanks God" Because it is God who gives you the sangat to begin with. Why do you think gurbani always talks about in the sadh sangat, everything is obtained. Don't turn into pride, becasue then you start to think, "this person is faulty, this person doesn't know this or that" But remember the one who made them the way they are. But it was all because of their past devotion. So if you want the good things to happen to you. Devote yourself to God now. Be humble and lower yourself, admit you are weak before God, because then we surrender ourselves to God. That is like giving your head, which is what guru wants. It belongs to him anyway, so why take foolish pride in yourself.

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The advice you mentioned, requires someone to have energy, inspiration, motivation and the will to get things accomplished. If it was as simple as you mention why hasn't everybody done it already?

Because they haven't go the energy, inspiration, motivation and the will to get things accomplished. Thats why. The energy and motivation, the fact you are happy in life where does that all come from? It can come from external sources, such as your parents, friends, family, books magazines. Basicially the sangat. But what decides if you have good sangat or bad sangat? Who chooses the family you are going to be born into? Who decides all that. Ultimately we learn from whats around us. WE have to be in the right place at the right time. But who is the one who stages the events we see around us? Who is the one that looks after the Earth, to make sure it doesn't destroyed. Whether by, evil dictators, or natural disasters such as meteorites. Who is in charge of all that?

We need the right nutrition to be healthy. Who decides whether we are going to be born in poverty, or whether we are brought up into a wealthy family? Who is the one who gave you this human life? and has made sure it has been sustained from when you were in the womb.

You could say, "oh nature did it, my parents did it, I did it" Or you can realise that God is behind it all. And whatver you seek, can be obtained from him. Search within ourselves. Not saying things happen by magic, but basicially we are what our sangat is. So go to God and he will give us the right sangat.

That is how humans were designed. Babies learn by copying, and imitation. So you need the right people to copy. Make Guru the person you copy. Because Guru ji was blessed in every single way. What does Guru ji lack? nothing. We humans learn from example. So pick the right example while you still have a chance. you set the example.

All the good and bad thats happened to you, is because the naam simran you did in your past, including past lives. Naam is everything. It's simple more naam we do more rewards we get. This can be in the form of having, energy and the motivation to do things. You can say "i worked hard im so proud of myself" or you can say "God made me work hard, Thanks God" Because it is God who gives you the sangat to begin with. Why do you think gurbani always talks about in the sadh sangat, everything is obtained. Don't turn into pride, becasue then you start to think, "this person is faulty, this person doesn't know this or that" But remember the one who made them the way they are. But it was all because of their past devotion. So if you want the good things to happen to you. Devote yourself to God now. Be humble and lower yourself, admit you are weak before God, because then we surrender ourselves to God. That is like giving your head, which is what guru wants. It belongs to him anyway, so why take foolish pride in yourself.

Fateh.

I'm going to be intentionally harsh, but my comments are directed not at you personally but at your way of thinking which is the same passive resignation that I see in many Sikhs (and in many religious Indians in general).

Your entire post can be summed up in one sentence: God is the author of everything. OK, I agree. Now what?

Do you not see how utterly pointless your comment is? It is akin to pointing out some obvious thing and using that as an excuse to justify your idleness.

You can say: the sea is deep, so we should not bother to learn to swim because God will teach us Himself if He wants us to learn, and should we accidentally find ourselves drowning, it is up to God to make us float; Calculus is difficult to learn, but God Himself will teach me what I need for my exams, so I should not study lest I be accused of attempting to imitate God; I am overweight, but I won't make any effort to change my diet or to exercise because it is God's Hukam that I love the taste of samosay.

It is a completely passive and utterly useless philosophy because it can be applied to any situation.

You say that we are to sacrifice our heads to Guru Ji. Guru Ji is generous enough to graciously accept anything you give Him, but would you not want to offer the best sacrifice that you are capable of giving? Why offer the Guru a shapeless lump of clay when it is within your ability to sculpt it into a beautiful, unique and awe-inspiring peice of art?

K.

PS. Do some research on the differences between fatalism, determinism and compatabilism. They have been discussed from both a philosophical and theological perspective. As a really simple explanation (though from a Christian perspective), see here:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/sov.html

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I can never seem to communicate properly. My posts are always misunderstood. Im bailing out after this.

You can say: the sea is deep, so we should not bother to learn to swim because God will teach us Himself if He wants us to learn, and should we accidentally find ourselves drowning, it is up to God to make us float; Calculus is difficult to learn, but God Himself will teach me what I need for my exams, so I should not study lest I be accused of attempting to imitate God; I am overweight, but I won't make any effort to change my diet or to exercise because it is God's Hukam that I love the taste of samosay.

I never said things happen by magic, i said it happens by sangat. But God is the giver of sangat, not yourself. So if you want the right sangat. Hence the right sangat for exams would be, the right revision material, the motivation to actually revise. That you had a good teacher in school that taught you the subject properly. That you weren't ill or anything, and your brain was in a good state to easily absorb the information. This is all good sangat and worldy success. This is due to your karma and past devotion to God.

Your entire post can be summed up in one sentence: God is the authour everything. OK, I agree. Now what?

So thats why i was getting down to the nitty gritty and saying "God is the author of everything" Because he is according to the past actions you commited. So why focus on the end result of what you have got and what you haven't got? Why not just focus on God instead, who is the giver of good sangat. Instead of sitting there worrying, "how can i get people to unite, how can we learn to swim" Focus on the giver of the gifts, but not the gift itself. Because when you focus on the giver, everything comes to you naturally and intuitivly anyway. And don't think i mean by magic again. Im saying by sangat, if you focus on God he in turn gives you the best sangat to acheive all your goals. My point was don't worry how you will acheive the goal. But focus on God, because he will cause you to succeed anyway. Hence, no worries.

It is a completely passive and utterly useless philosophy because it can be applied to any situation.

Not a philosophy, ask God yourself. He will give you everything because he loves you so much. You just have to stop being ignorant of him. Even when we are ignorant of him, he puts up with us. That is not directed at you by the way, just anybody that wants to know why God may not be giving you happiness.

You say that we are to sacrifice our heads to Guru Ji. Guru Ji is generous enough to graciously accept anything you give Him, but would you not want to offer the best sacrifice that you are capable of giving? Why offer the Guru a shapeless lump of clay when it is within your ability to sculpt it into a beautiful, unique and awe-inspiring peice of art?

That links to my point in the other post, the fact we would be a beatiful sculpted peace of art, is because of Guru's grace. It's not within our ability. We can only make use of the sangat around us. So go into the right sangat, this can be acheived from God. If anyone claims they are the doer of everything, and that they are the reason they are so successful, and that God has nothing to do with it. Like you could say "i worked hard, with no mention or praise to God" Well we will see how successful they are in the next world.

I'm not claiming to know it all, all i know is that if we want success, spiritually and wordly, it comes from the same source. WE need the right sangat to make it happen. Nobody ever got that sangat by themselves, when God becomes merciful then we obtain that sangat. So seek God's sanctuary.

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Fateh!

I never said things happen by magic, i said it happens by sangat. But God is the giver of sangat, not yourself. This is due to your karma and past devotion to God.

Nope, you are not saying things happen by magic. You are saying that you have no agency and that it is the sangat that is responsible for making you do something. And the sangat magically appears due to karma, in other words for reasons you have no control over.

You have completely removed personal effort and responsibility from the equation. Your philosophy is nothing but a set of tautological propositions: if you learn shastar vidiya, it is God's will; if you can't be bothered, it's God's will. How does that motivate you to do anything? And please don't answer, well, it's God's will if you get motivated or not.

I'm not disagreeing with your central premise that God is the author of everything, but it's so true that it is entirely meaningless and irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

K.

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VJKK VJKF

Dear Veerji,

I have tried setting something up with the local gurdwara, the response I got was very negative i.e. nobody wants trouble, nobody wants the police on their case etc

I have tried - that is the truth.

VJKK VJKF

wow, i'm glad you tried. in my local gurudwara they make snide remarks about doing anything. at the youth club some people were up for it, but most of them were moneh who would probably get carried away with the violence.

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its always those who propose setting up jathas that are least likely to do anything. i'm not aiming this at you roop and i dont want to get into an argument, but if its that bad where you live, set up a jatha, and if its strong enough, it will spread to other places that have sikh communities.

as for sikhs being cowards, what do you expect? look at our history, how many brave men have been killed in all these wars we were in? its obviously had an effect on our gene pool.

Nice observation does make some sense. However, i believe a lot of the cowardness is due to the way kids are brought up. A lot of focus is on education and to stay away from trouble. I see it all the time, something happening (i.e fight) parents are walking away, ignoring the issues or crossing the road. Believe a lot of the fear comes from the early 70s/80s during the NF era. Because the parents show weakness it is easily adopted by the child at a young age. Iv been greatful my father has always promoted the fact to help others and stand your ground. Alot of my friends would be scared to get into conflicts with people because they are too scared to get beats from their parents. My dad always told me if am going to fight make sure its for the right reason and that i win !.

Neither the less you still do get a few lion hearted Singhs out there.

its funny you mention that. my grandad told me that when he was young a sikh came to their village to tell them that pakistan and hindustan were going to be two new countries after independence and that the village would be part of pakistan. at first they thought that meant punjab, but he told them it would be a muslim country, and that they had to leave or the musis would kill them. the headman was annoyed and said 'how could this have happened?'. the guy told him that nehru and jinnah had decided with the british and the sikh leader had gone along with it. then the people in the village asked what can we do? the guy who was a veteran of WW2 told them they had to get to east punjab and then get their kids educated. jinnah, nehru, gandhi all had good educations and were lawyers. the sikh leader was some primary school teacher with little education. the funny thing is their were 600,000 sikhs with firearms in the partition era. but no sikh leader to tell them what to do. thats why so many parents and grandparents drum into their kids the importance of education. it helped quite a few sikhs who fled uganda as countries want clever people.

nowadays though we need a mix of good education, good health and stamina, a shrewd and tactical mind, plus practical weapons experience.

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Fateh!

I never said things happen by magic, i said it happens by sangat. But God is the giver of sangat, not yourself. This is due to your karma and past devotion to God.

Nope, you are not saying things happen by magic. You are saying that you have no agency and that it is the sangat that is responsible for making you do something. And the sangat magically appears due to karma, in other words for reasons you have no control over.

You have completely removed personal effort and responsibility from the equation. Your philosophy is nothing but a set of tautological propositions: if you learn shastar vidiya, it is God's will; if you can't be bothered, it's God's will. How does that motivate you to do anything? And please don't answer, well, it's God's will if you get motivated or not.

I'm not disagreeing with your central premise that God is the author of everything, but it's so true that it is entirely meaningless and irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

K.

Your not understanding what im trying to say, nevermind its too difficult for me to communicate. I thought i explained myself well, but obviously i haven't. These remarks your said about my beliefs/philosophy, do not represent me or my views. Im just not going to bother now, because everything i say gets twisted. Your not doing it on purpose, thats just the way it always happens, fault is with me. Anything i said previously, obviously it doesn't make sense, so just leave it out. I have a habbit of being brief with people, because i assume they know the definition of the words i use. I mean in the same definition i use the words. Because in our heads there are some words we all have a slightly different view on what is means. I was just assuming you knew what i meant without fully descrbing it. So just forget it.

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- one Sikh will tell you that we are not warriors anymore because we lack the genes that our forefathers had and we might as well just sit back and be content with being fat, weak and gutless because it is nature to blame, not ourselves (and so you need not feel guilty for your own cowardice),

oy! who said that?! did i say that we should be content with being fat/weak/gutless etc? i was just making an observation. the germans are pretty mute compared to their ancestors too.

we can get over our present day problems but it will take hard work. if our fathers were sikhs with weapons experience we would know how to use them by the time we were 18 (like in the days of the sikh empire and confederacy). but when all those heroes were killed and our nation was neutered, it was harder to be like our forefathers. nowadays our parents dont know anything about being warriors. so we have to start from the beginning and pass that on to the next generation. our experience passed on to them will grow, and they will add to it when they pass it on to their children. thats why european armies function so well as they've been at it for centuries. maybe creating a few more ego-less institutions would help to change the present state of the youth.

btw i came up with the TA idea first you cheeky git! lol, just kidding.

- and there will always be one sikh who quotes the posts above him without adding to the discussion

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VJKK VJKF

Sikhs are being attacked from all communities in the Uk, muslims, blacks, whites, hindus etc You always hear that a sikh has got his butt kicked etc We were once the warrior nation that saved hindu women from mughals. Where has the warrior spitit gone? We can't even fight one to one, let alone sava lakh seh ek laroun! We don't train in martial arts that are real, we have no unity within our community, what the hell is going on? Every community walks all over us, we have become a laughing stock.

Don't you think it is time that we had a jatha of 20-30 guys in every city within the UK, who will be able to generate a force by sticking together if the need arised? Don't you think we need training in all gurdwaras around the country? Don't you think we need educating in our rich sikh history in every gudwara, not punjabi classes but sikh history ?

PM if you want to.

Sorry if i have offended anyone.

VJKK VJKF

WJKF

I think what we really need to do, is challenge our own people. I totally agree with some of the statements above, special the one that “most of our people are very cowardly”. The fact of the matter is, Sikhs these days don’t actually believe in equality, justice and fighting evil. Also the other fact is, if you speak to any senior experienced martial artist, they will explain it’s to do with mind and body as one, which frankly we don’t have in Sikhi these days.

I would also like to bring another problematic situation we have within our community, when people say we should learn Sikh martial arts they are limiting themselves to a extent where they cannot adapt. Diversification is the key to an invincible warrior.

I am a amritdhari and I love my guru even after the last breath in my body, but I don’t like Sikh martial arts, in fact I hate it simply because it’s funny!! and impractical. And anybody that says well why don’t you come and we will show you about Sikh martial arts..lol well i’ve herd that statement from so many people it’s become a joke! I know a question might arise by saying; so you think our guru’s just used these martial arts for the sake of it?

Well the answer is no, our guru’s used it because it was the best war field strategic way of immobilizing a force of more than thousands!!! THOUSANDSS!!!!!!!

and i have never heard of a initiation of more than on a average 35 on 1 guy, or in a gang basis about 150 to a group of say 50 Sikhs in today’s modern day and age

I think western martial arts, and other martial arts will teach you more about the art in force which you crack a forehead open with a punch.

If i could give any advice to a modern day Sikh it would be

- Don’t be dependable, you don’t need to rely on anybody else for help, just do it yourself and quietly come back and don’t talk about it.

- Weapon, a Sikh brother can let you down or even a friend, but your shastar will never fail you, your guru gave it to you, and that your best friend!

- When you do have a group of people, who really are true warriors, make sure you don’t exclude them because they are not Sikh. Our Mahraja Ranjit Singh had not only Sikhs in his army, but muslims aswell, and im sure there were others like Persians etc...

I know some of the statements, above might not be agreed with principally, but anyways bull chukka maf karni!

WJKK

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