Enemies Of The Panth

[ghorandhar]

I'm not getting in to this debate AGAIN,

simple as this, if you want me to explain PM me, I'll be more than happy to disprove the incorrect interpretation.

sa(n)th prehalaadh kee paij jin raakhee haranaakhas nakh bidhariou ||3||

He preserved the honor of Saint Prahlaad, and destroyed Harnaakhash with his nails. ||3||

It is in the term of the characteristc, Prahlaad being 'true' and 'real' not a title at all, how have you come to this conclusion, haven't you given any thought to the semantics of this term and the context in which it is used? there is no use of the word as a title within Bani, this has been interpreted incorrectly by many people and therefore has led to a chain of Sants coming out of all corners of Panjab.

As I said, I'm not going off topic and don't wish to further this debate, if you don't get it still, PM me i'll try my best to explain.

There is not one bidwan who agrees with you, all sampardas, jhatas interpret this way.

Do you follow gurbani vaikaran (gurbani grammar)? Because even Prof Sahib Singh does the translation this way. There is also the title Bhagat in gurbani not just sant in gurbani.

You bring the topic up and then say you dont want to debate, why start it then?

Im not bothered what you believe or if you dont respond, but if you are going to keep speaking against sants then i will respond. If you want to respond then go back to my last post on punjab radio where we discussed Sant and I asked you some questions questions and ill be waiting for your pm.

[tarunjeet singh]

What About Baba Deep SIngh .Baba Zorawar singh, Baba Ajeet singh, Baba Jujhar singh , Baba Fateh SIngh , Bhai Mani singh Bhai Daya SIngh Bhai Himat Singh , Bhai mokham singh, Bhai dharam SIngh , Bhai Sahib SIngh, Bhai Mani SIngh ... just to name a few ...hmm where these Gurmukh pyara nto worthy of the title " Sant Mahapursh 108 Bramgiani "

Firstly Veer Confusingh why are you bringing up sants again? maybe you should first return back to the questions I asked you. The only people who agree with anything near to your defintion is Kala Afghana etc. Veer Dharamjudh has also presented you with another example.

Veer Taranjeet Singh If you look at your examples again you will realise that you used to names 'Baba' and 'Bhai'. Why not include: 'Bhagat' 'Gurmukh' 'Gursikh' etc. Your point is irrelvant. by saying they are not worthy of the title sant you are inferring that the word 'baba' is lower. Then why did Bhai Gurdas jee say, 'jithi Baba Pair tarai pooja asan tapaan soya'? I can remember reading Bhai Randheer Singh jee had great respect for Sant baba Teja Singh Mastuana, maybe you can shed more light on this?

When AKJs are the first to question the views of those who are against Dasam granth jee, then its natural others will question their views on raag mala which is questioning the Guru Granth Sahib jee. So people will feel double standards. However I think we have to rethink the use of the term enemies. Guru jee says, 'naa koo baree nahee bigana, sagal sangh ham kou ban ayee'. Its one thing to defend ourselves against Dehdhari, Kala Afghanas, RSS etc, but we should not compromise gurmat in achieving our objectives. The way we are acting we dont need to worry about RSS, Dehdhari etc, we will end up destroying each other. I dont think AKJs can be included in the category of RSS, Dehghari gurus etc, on this point of raag mala they have just failed to understand it. This is one Kamhee when you blindly follow a group.

RAAGMALA

The Fifth Guru Nanak, Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji, finished compiling the Pothi Sahib, now commonly known as Sri Guru Granth Sahib or Adi Bir in 1604 A.D. According to the prevalent procedure followed by authors of religious literature, Sri Guru Granth Sahib was started with the praise of the Almighty God in the form of Mool Mantra. After completing the Volume, the closing Shabad of Mundavani M.5 was put at the end as the closing Seal (the word Mundavani is derived from the word Mundana, i.e., to close), and was, of course, followed by the last thanksgiving shabad: Tera Kita Jaato Nahin...

While compiling the contents of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Sahib devised and adopted a very meticulous system of checks and balances so that no extraneous material could be interpolated anywhere without being discovered. Each entry herein is numbered and subtotals of each part are caaried forward to form the grand total. It was thus not possible for any miscreant to introduce any extraneous matter in the main body of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

However, it appears that certain people, including some devout Sikhs, started writing in the Birs in their possession certain pieces of information which they considered to be very important for the purpose of preserving their posterity. This is not unlike how some devout Christians reportedly recorded important family matters in their family Bibles so that on-coming generations may benefit from them. It seems very probable that some people may have added some extraneous material which they considered harmless though important for them and their families, at the end of the Birs in their possession. Thus, in some (NOT ALL) of the hand-written old Birs, including the one at Kartarpur Sahib, one or more of the following material has been found at the end of the last Thanksgiving shabad:

Jit dir likh Mohammada...

Baaey Aatish Aad...

Raig Ramkali Ratinmila

Hikikat Raah Mukaam of Raj Shivnibh

Raag Mala

Dates of Jyoti jot (ascension) of the first six Gurus are given in the beginning on spare pages in the Kartarpur Bir. There is also mention of year of 'fire in Kartarpur' as also the year of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's visit.

In certain cases the technique of making special ink (Ink formula) used for writing Sri Guru Granth Sahib, has also been written.

The remarkable thing is that in all such Birs wherein extraneous material has been added at the end, Raag Mala comes last of all. It is surprising that while all other items have been disapproved and excluded, only the Raag Mala, which was at the end of such material, has been pressed for inclusion, creating unnecessary controversy.

Some supporters of Raag Mala assert that when the original volume of Sri Guru Granth Sahib was completed, some Sikhs petitioned to the Satguru, to bless them with some prem maala which would help them in their deliverance from the cycle of birth and death.25 Acceding to their supplication, Guru Sahib himself composed Raag Mala and put it at the end! What logic! What a clever justification constructed by Raag Mala supporters! The whole of Dhur-ki-Bani contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, which is all full of praises of the Lord and Naam, could not help the Sikhs attain salvation. And, Raag Mala, wherein not an iota of Naam or God's Praise exists, should help them to reach the highest State of Divinity! Then why take the pains to read the whole of Sri Guru Granth Sahib when we can achieve our ultimate goal by reading Raag Mala alone? Is not the presentation of this reasoning itself a sacrilege of Dhur-Ki-Bani?

The true authorship and authenticity of Raag Mala has always remained dubious:

According to well-known historian Gyani Gyan Singh, in a Sarbat Khalsa Samagam held in 1906 Bikrami (1853 A.D.), it was declared that Raag Mala is not Gurbani. His actual words are:

(English Translation)

"In Samvat 1906 Bikrami, during the month of Katak, at the Dera of Sant Dyal Singh, a large Panthic gathering took place. On the Divali day, after detailed exchange of ideas and considerations, it was concluded that Raag Mala is not Gurbani."26

In 1900 A-D. - at the time of the founding of the Chief Khalsa Diwan, Sri Guru Granth Sahib was printed without containing Raag Mala. One such Bir is reported to be present now at Gujarwal in Ludhiana District. Again another printing of Sri Guru Granth Sahib took place in 1915 without Raag Mala in Gurmat Press at Amritsar - one of which is also present in Singh Sabha Gurdwara at Gujarwal. At that time the two top Sikh organizations, Tat Khalsa and Chief Khalsa Diwan, propagated zealously against reading Raag Mala.

In the early 1930s, a special committee was constituted by the newly formed S.G.P.C. to draft Gursikh Rahit Maryada. This committee, after detailed deliberations declared unequivocally that Raag Mala is not Gurbani. As a result, the first 1938 edition of the RAHIT MARYADA published by the S.G.P.C. clearly stated:

Guru Granth Sahib's reading should end after Mundavani and Raag Mala should not he read.27, 28

As a result of all these clear cut directions of the leading Sikh organizations, the reading of Raag Mala was stopped in many Gurudwaras. AT SRI AKAL TAKHT SAHIB, IT WAS ALREADY NOT BEING READ, AND IS NOT READ EVEN NOW. (Recently, for obvious reasons when there is no stable management authority at Sri Akal Takht Sahib, some pro-Raag Mala people are reported to have started reading it there. This is not based on any Panthic decision.)

However, in the later editions of the Gursikh RAHIT MARYADA, published by the S.G.P.C., the wording in this respect was changed without consulting even the members of the original Committee and without giving any explanation as to the basis of this change, to read as follows:

"...reading of Guru Granth should be concluded with the reading of either the Mundavani or the Raag Mala, depending upon local practice."

So now, it his been left to the Sangat whether to read it or not.

It may be noted that while all 'shabads' in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, without exception, exhort directly or indirectly, the importance of the Divine Naam for spiritual enlightenment, there is not even a trace of this divinity in the whole of Raag Mala. It is just a glossary or genealogy of some raags and sub-raags and their branches. In fact, it is not complete even in this respect so far as raags and sub-raags included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib are concerned, as shown below:

There are 31 pure raags and 6 mixed raags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Out of 37 raags, 12 raags do not find any mention in Raag Mala.

There are as many as 59 raags and raaginies in Raag Mala which are not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.29

Another very important but rather basic point to be considered in this respect is that Gurbani is the Divine Word. In spite of the fact that the whole Gurbani has been composed to be read in certain musical measures, it is not wholly dependant on these musical measures so far as its impact on the mind is concerned. Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not for teaching musical measures or raags but is meant to uplift the soul of one who reads it, sings it, or listens to it. In short, the only objective of the Gurbani is Spiritual Enlightenment. That is why Guru Sahib has not written anywhere on the intricacies of the various raags or on the so-called Gurmat Sangeet. The true Gurmat, and not the correct understanding of the raags, is the True Way of Life; though the latter is certainly very helpful and productive. In the closing Shabad of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji himself clearly summarized the contents of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. According to him, this platter (thaal) (Sri Guru Granth Sahib), contains the following three things:

Amrit Naam.

Resultant Contentment and Satiation of all desires; and, finally

The true understanding of the Divinity by constant meditation or Simran of the Amrit Naam.

Further, it is stated that in reality these are the three aspects of the only ONE THING - AMRIT NAAM. He has not made any hint regarding the presence of various raags and their wives and offsprings, etc., as they are only subsidiary to the major content.

The following quotations from Sri Guru Granth Sahib in this perspective are worth considering:

Raag Naad Sab Sohney Jau Laagey Sehaj Dhyan

Raag Naad Chhod Har Seviay Taa Darghey Payeeay Maan. (pg. 849)

Beauteous are the melody and music, if through Guru's word, one fixes his attention on the Lord. One attains the honor in the Lord's Court only when one rises above and gives up the means of the worldly melody and music.

Raag Naad Man Dujaay Bhayey. (pg. 1342)

Singing and learning temporal music makes one's mind attached to duality.

Sabhna Raagaan vich So Bhala Bhai, Jit Vasya Man Aaye. Raag Naad Sabh Sach Hai, Keemat Kahi Na Jaaye.

Raagey Naadey Bahraa,Inni Hukum Naa Boojhya Jaaey.

(pg. 1423)

Amongst all the musical measures, that alone is sublime, O Brother, by which the Lord comes to abide into the mind. The melodies in which Guru's word is sung are all true; their worth can be told not. The Lord is beyond the melodies and sounds. Merely through these, His will cannot be realized.

Mr. M. A. Macauliffe, who spent about 20 years in studying the Sikh history and scriptures at the end of the 19th Century, published his monumental work entitled The Sikh Religion in six volumes, in 1902. In discussing the completion and contents of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, he states:

"A Muhammadan poet called Alam in AH 991 (AD. 1583) wrote a work in 353 stanzas, generally from four to six lines each, called Madhava Nal Kandala. The Raga Mala, which forms the conclusion of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and contains a list of the raags and raaginis and their subdivisions, is a portion of Alam's work extending from 63rd to 72nd stanza. It is not understood how it was included in the Sacred volume. The Raags mentioned in it do not correspond with the Raags of the Granth Sahib."

The Mahan Kosh (Encyclopedia of Sikh Literature) of Bhai Sahib Bh. Kahan Singh refers to Raag Mala as under:

"Raag Mala: The 63rd to 72nd meters from the Hindi version of Madhavanal Sangeet composed by Alam poet and includes six raags, with five raginis and eight sons of each."30

In his other well-known authoritative work: Gurmat Sudhakar, he has commented in greater detail in this respect:

"Many people finish the reading (of Sri Guru Granth Sahib) at Raag Mala. Raag Mala is not Gurbani. It was composed by a poet named Alam, a contemporary of Emperor Akbar - in the year 991 Hijri or Bikrami 1641 - about 20 years before the compilation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib as is evident from the text of the SANGEET...Besides the fact that it is NOT Gurbani, Raag Mala is also against Gurmat because it makes no reference to Devotion, the True Knowledge and Love for God. The Raags in Guru Granth start with Sri Raag. Gurbani also says 'Sri Raag' is blessed among the Raags. It is further supported by Bhai Gurdas Ji who places Sri Raag on the top of the raags. As against this, the Raag Mala starts with Bhairav Raag. All the Raags contained in Guru Granth Sahib are not mentioned in Raag Mala. Also, all the Raags mentioned in Raag Mala are not contained in Guru Granth Sahib.

"In the Index of Guru Granth Sahib of Kartarpur, it has been indicated: 'All the leaves of Guru Baba: 974' (in that volume). Mundavani is written on leaf No.973 and 974th is blank. Some Sikh has inserted Raag Mala on additional leaves after 974 at the end of the Guru Granth just as Bhai Banno has inserted many additional Shabads and the anecdote of Sangla-deep without the permission of the Satguru....Many old volumes of Guru Granth Sahib are available at Buij of Baba Ala Singh, Patiala and Sri Abchal Nagar, etc., which do not contain Raag Mala..."31

Professor Sahib Singh, in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Darpan, states:

"Those people who have made some additions in Guru Granth Sahib, could do so only after Mundavani M.5 and Slok M.5."32

Therefore, according to him, Sri Guru Granth Sahib really ends at Slok M.5, inferring thereby, that whatever is written therein after Slok M.5, is not a part of the original volume and is thus not Gurbani.

His other comments and certain points raised by him are also very noteworthy and relevant in this respect:

In Raag Mala, the word 'Pun' which is a derivative of the Sanskrit word Punch - has been used while in the rest of Guru Granth Sahib the word is Phun. From a literary view point, it is very strange that none of the Gurus have used this word anywhere in their own compositions. (pg. 693)

The heading 'Raag Mala' has not been prefixed or suffixed by the name of its author, contrary to the system followed in Guru Granth Sahib. (pg. 693)

The system of putting numerals (1, 2, 3, etc.) in Raag Mala is absolutely different from the system followed in Guru Granth Sahib. Why so? (pg. 694)

Raag Gaund has been shown first as the son of Raag Sri Raag and then as the son of Raag Megh! (pg. 697)

The use of the numeral '1' twice in Raag Mala is confusing. (pg. 697)

It is very astonishing to note that certain Raags contained in Guru Granth Sahib have not been mentioned in Raag Mala, and a number of Raags not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib, are included in it. (pg. 697)

Similar references to Raag Mala have also been made by some other renowned scholars:

"Raag Mala is not the composition of the Satguru"

(Gur Partip Surya by Mahan Kavi Bhai Sahib Bhai Santokh Singh Ji)

"Mundavani was kept at the end of the Granth Sahib as the Closing Seal. Raag Mala was inserted by someone later..."

(Guru Tirath Kosh by Pt. Tara Singh Nirotam.)

"Just as Index has no relation with Bani - although it is the index of the Bani; similarly Raag Mala has no relation with Bani, though it refers to the same Bani."

(Bani Beora by Dr. Charan Singh)

Dr. Charan Singh, while admitting that Raag Mala is not Gurbani, insists that it refers to Raags contained in the Gurbani, an assertion which has already been shown to be incorrect. Further, does anyone ever start the reading of the Guru Granth Sahib with the Index given in the beginning?

Thus, it suffices here to say that it is very unjust to accuse certain sections of the Panth of attacking the purity and the unity of Sri Guru Granth Sahib simply because they do not read Raag Mala. The reading of Raag Mala does not provide any spiritual benefit and not reading it, is not at all a sacrilegious act. In fact, it is really sacrilegious to equate the writing of an ordinary poet with Dhur-Ki-Baani!

It would not be out of place to mention here the names of some well known personalities who did not consider Raag Mala as Gurbani and were, therefore, not in favor of reading it:

Mahakavi Bhai Santokh Singh; Pandit Tara Singh Nirotam; Gyani Dit Singh and Prof. Gurmukh Singh of the Singh Sabha Movement; well known historian Gyani Gyan Singh; Sadhu Gobind Singh Nirmala; Prof. Hazara Singh; J. C. Cunningham - the author of History of Sikhs; well-known historian Macauliff; Bhai Sahib Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha, the author of Mahan Kosh; Master Mota Singh; Master Mehtab Singh, Master Tara Singh, Gyani Sher Singh, Babu Teja Singh, Giani Nahar Singh, Principal Dharmanant Singh, Prof. Teja Singh, Principal Ganga Singh, Dr. Ganda Singh, Prof. Sahib Singh, S. Shamsher Singh Ashok Research Scholar of S.G.P.C., Pandit Kartar Singh Daakhaa, Principal Bawa Harkishan Singh, Principal Narinjan Singh, Prof. Gurbachan Singh Talib; Principal Gurmukhnihal Singh and many others.33

On the basis of the facts stated hereinfore, it can be safely summarized and concluded that:

Raag Mala was not composed by any of the Gurus.

It was not a part of the original Bir compiled by Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji, nor of the Damdami Bir.

Raag Mala is part of Madhavanal Kandala written by the Muslim poet Alam, about twenty-one years before the original Bir was compiled.

There are a number of raags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib which are not included in Raag Mala and vice versa.

The meticulous uniform system of numbering of all the Shabads in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, has not been used in Raag Mala. Raag Mala has no system of numbering as each portion has been numbered as one (1) which reveals nothing and is confusing.

There is no mention of the name of the composer anywhere as against the procedure employed in the rest of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

In some of the handwritten Birs there exist a number of other extraneous writings, including Raag Mala. When all other compositions have been rejected it is not understood why this composition, which was at the end, has been retained.

[Guest confusingh]

Ghorandhar veer ji....You've not once made reference to where the term derived from... Sat. (Sanskrit)

There are plenty of Jathe (AKJ and others) who also acknowledge this interpretation....as I said people PM me if you feel a need to discuss this further.

I also hear Sant Aclaus Northpolewala is coming to the UK so be sure to all give him lots of money and gifts before he hands them on to boys and girls at Christmas time.

[Jujhar Singh]

Bhai Sahib Bhai Tarunjeet Singh RSS vale

[tarunjeet singh]

Bhai Sahib Bhai Tarunjeet Singh RSS vale

Yes I must be lol

[Dharam Judh]

ADMIN - I KNOW ITS AGAINST THE RULES BUT I CANT BEAR TO SEE THE NINDIYA OF GURBANI!

Ragmala is Gurbani

When reciting Gurbani it is very hurtful to our Guru if we make what we may call a minor mistake by mispronouncing a lagaa maatar (Gurmukhi vowel), knowing this then how can we totally disregard an ang of Guru Sahib. Guru Jee tells us:

“Jin Bhae Adab Na Bani Dhaaraa | Jaanhu So Sikh Nahee Hamaaraa ||20||”

“One who has no fear and respect of Gurbani, know him/her to not be a Sikh of mine.”

We must all question ourselves to see if we really have fear for our Guru, who is manifested in Gurbani – can we call ourselves a Sikh of the Guru in this light? The Bani contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jeee is the truth as Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee tells us in Mool Mantar, it was true at the start of the ages, true throughout the ages and will be true forever more.

“Sat(i)gur Kee Bani Sat(i) Sat(i) Kar(i) Jaanhu Gursikhu, Har(i) Kartaa Aap(i) Muhhu Kadd(h)aaea|| (Gauree Kee Vaar Mahalla 4, Ang 304)

“Recognise the Bani of Satguru as the Truth, Oh Gurskihs – Lord the Creator has uttered it himself.”

We as Sikhs should therefore recognise Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee as the living embodiment of the 10 Guru’s and respect each and every letter of the 1430 angs from Ik Oa(n)kaar to At(h)aarah Das Bees.

The following is a point-by-point reply to an article “Ragmala The Undeniable Facts” (RTUF’s from now on) that has been distributed, which questions the authenticity of God’s Gurbani – Ragmala.

“In reply to those who evangelize venomously that those who do not read Ragmala are not Sikhs. Even though it clearly states in the Sikh Code of Conduct that a Sikh can chose to read Ragmala or not read it according to their preference.” (RTUF)

The so called Sikh Code of Conduct (being referred to above) was originally published in the early 20th century after the leading Gursikhs of the time came together to try and agree a standard code of conduct. Many of these Gursikhs left the original meeting as it was obvious that some unscrupulous individuals would want to include things within this code that were obviously against Gurbani. Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh Jee and Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Jee Khalsa Bhindranwale are just two of these Sikhs that didn’t agree and that didn’t actually sign to the final draft of the Code (which coincidentally took many years of deliberation to form and proof of who actually agreed the final version has never been provided those who published the document). Some of the points included in this Code are:

• Consumption of meat and alcohol are not cardinal sins

• Sikhs need only read 3 Banis (namely Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tva Parsad Svaye) in their morning recital

• Sikhs need only read shortened versions of certain Banis

If a Sikh is to use this Code as an arguing point then they should be prepared to abide by it, in its entirerity, not just picking and choosing what they feel is correct, for example this Code clearly states that Kes is a Kakkar and not Keski and in praise of the Code it must be stated that it also says that a Sikh should recite one Sehaj Paath (whole of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee) monthly or the equivalent. If one is to use this code as a basis for arguing then they must be willing to abide by the stated previous points and practise what they preach. As shown this Code has many discrepancies and if Sikhs abided it they would actually be violating the eternal edicts of Gurbani.

“(1) Ragamala being the heading does not indicate which of our Great Gurus wrote Ragmala, and since there is no mention of the word Nanak in the writing, it is comprehensible that our Great Gurus had no hand in writing Ragmala.” (RTUF)

Ragmala has something in common with the most frequently read Bani around the world by Sikhs and non Sikhs alike, Jap(u) Jee Sahib. Both do not indicate which of our Gurus wrote them, in fact ‘Nanak’ doesn’t appear in 7 paurees (verses) of Jap(u) Jee Sahib and ‘Nanak’ doesn’t appear in several other Shabads in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Arguing that Ragmala is not Gurbani due to the lack of the word ‘Nanak’ appearing in it is thus a fallacy and miscomprehension.

“(2) The order in which various rags are mentioned in Ragamala do not correspond to the order in which the same rag appears in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. The first rag in Sri Guru Granth Sahib is ‘Sri Rag’ while in Ragmala it is ‘Bhairo.”

The order of rags that appear in Ragmala are irrelevant to the writing of it, as it is not an index of the rags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Ragmala and Gurbani in general have deeper mystical meanings, if we don’t understand or can’t comprehend these deeper hidden jewels, that does not mean we should simply disregard Gurbani we don’t understand.

“(3) The following rags which are contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee do not emerge in Ragmala, i.e. rags Maajh, Bihagra, Jaitsri, Ramkali, Mali Gaura, Tukhari, Prabhati and Jaijavanti. Therefore the assertion that Ragmala is a mala (rosary) of the rags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is not true.”

Nobody argued that Ragmala is a mere rosary of the rags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, Guru Jee decided what rags to include in Ragmala and it is not for us to doubt/question this decision. In Gurbani the word rag also means prem (love), so Ragmala is also a rosary of love it is not merely a rosary of rags (this is in reference to the deeper mystical meanings of Ragmala mentioned above).

“(4) In Ragmala the counting system of phrases is totally different to the system used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, i.e. in Ragmala ||1|| or No. 1 appears after each phrase and the end of Ragmala. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee the totalling system is 1,2,3,4,5,6, etc and this can be clearly seen in the first hymn in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, i.e. in Jap(u) Jee Sahib the first pauree has 1 and the last has 38.”

This statement is incorrect as Jap(u) Jee Sahib actually has two ‘1’s’ at the start and a ‘1’ at the end after the Salok. The 1,2,3,4,5,6, etc numbering system is present in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee but is not consistent throughout. Just as in Jap(u) Jee Sahib there are other verses of Gurbani that have the No. 1 after paurees that follow each other – do we then also discount these as Gurbani, as they are not adhering to this stringent numerical system.

“(5) Mudavani the word means the seal of closure therefore anything after Salok Mahalla 5 really cannot be accepted as Gurbani and since Ragamala is after Salok Mahalla 5 it cannot be sanctioned as part of Gurbani.”

If Mudavani is the seal of closure then technically we cannot accept Salok Mahalla 5, as this is a separate Shabad which comes after Mudhavani Mahalla 5. In fact the word Mudavani is present on two other occasions in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, on Ang 645 within the same Shabad in Vaar of Sorat(h). So if we follow this line of argument anything after this Shabad is not Gurbani – how ludicrous is that! The meaning of Mudavani is not ‘seal of closure’ but on the contrary it means ‘riddle,’ a riddle that Guru Jee is stating in this Shabad. Guru Jee states in Mundavni,

Thaal Vich

In this platter there are three things – they are truth, discussion and discourse of the Shabad.

In the next line Guru Jee states that Amrit Naam has been placed,

Amrit Naam …

The riddle is understanding the true meaning of these lines, which is that in the platter of Sri Guru Granth Sahib the Amrit Naam of Shabad has been placed by contemplating and studying this Shabad one attains truth and contentment.

“(6) In some hand written versions of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee the following works appear:

• Salok Mahalla 1 Jit Dhar Lakh muha(n)madha…

• Salok Mahalla 1 Bia aatas aab

• Rag Ramkali Ratan Male

• Hakikat Rah Mukam Raja Sivnat Ki

In all the handwritten Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jees Ragmala appears at the end of all other works. Since it is acceptable that the works are not Gurbani, how is it that pro Ragmala accept Ragmala as Gurbani and that the other works are not Gurbani even though they come before Ragmala this seems a very illogical attitude on their part. “

In 1945 the SGPC set up a sub-committee to investigate whether Ragmala is included in the original Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Saroop that was compiled by Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee. The following is from their: “We can most definitely say that nobody other than Bhai Gurdas Jee, who was the scribe, included Ragmala in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Ragmala is an ang of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.” They also stated that they the ink, paper and handwriting of Ragmala was consistent with the rest of the saroop. When this first saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee was compiled many had made supplications to Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee to include their writings but Guru Jee rejected many, only those who had merged with God could utter Gurbani, as it is the word of God Himself.

The final Saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee as we know it today was compiled by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee, and Baba Deep Singh Jee compiled 4 other Saroops of this final version and they were sent to all Five Takhats. All these Saroops have Ragmala in them, again it is written in the same handwriting, ink and upon the same paper. The above mentioned works are not present in any of these Saroops and they unanimously accepted not as the writings of the Guru and only few Saroops have these works in them.

“(7) Ragmala which comes after Mudavni in the printed versions of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, was not written by Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee. It is part of a book called Mudhavnal Kamkandla written by poet Alam in 1640 Bikramee (1583 AD), 21 years before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee was compiled by Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee.”

This point is a fallacy, it was a poet named Jodh who wrote Madhvanal Kamkandla in 1583 AD - Ragmala or anything even resembling it, is not present in the original version of this book. The poet Alam lived from 1655 to 1717 AD and after listening to/reading Ragmala, he wrote a book called Madhvanal Sangeet that was mostly copied work from other poets including Jodh. There is also a poem in this compilation which doubters of Ragmala believe is Ragmala, but it is actually very different to Ragmala. In the past century people have mistakenly linked the work of these poets’ as one and the same, because Alam plagerised much of his work from Jodh, and they try to prove that Ragmala is not Gurbani with this mistaken line of argument. Historically there are 11 different versions of Ragmala they all differ from the original which is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, different writers over time have gained inspiration from Ragmal in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and then gone on to write their own versions of Ragmala. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee there are 2 different versions of Barah Maha, one in Raag Maaj and the other in Raag Tukaree. There are also many versions of Barah Maha written by various authors, should we then argue that these two Barah Maha’s are not Gurbani?

“(8) Ragmala Bhagats preach that whatever is contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee should be read. Then why don’t they read the 11 pages containing the index to the contents of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, or the publishers name on the first page or the seal of certification? Why the hypocracy?”

Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not a book and it is blasphemous to suggest so, it is God’s word and should be respected as such. This line of argument is obviously of one who does not view Sri Guru Granth Sahib with reverence and it may be pointed out that such people also argue that you don’t have to do Bhog to food in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee or even doing Bhog is a mere ritual. The faithful offer food to Guru Jee to bless, and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the living embodiment of the 10 Guru’s, thus it is logical to offer food in the presence of the Guru.

“(9) The following great Sikh and non Sikh scholars believed that Ragmala is not Gurbani:

• Great Poet Bhai Santokh Singh

• Pandit Tara Singh Nakoola

• Giani Dit Singh

• Professor Gurmukh Singh

• Giani Gian Singh

• Sadhu Gobind Singh Nirmala

• Pandit Basant Singh

• ...”

It would be very easy to make a list of Gursikhs who were held in high regard that believed Ragmala is Gurbani. The list would include great scholars, freedom fighters, spiritualists and selfless servants of the Khalsa Panth. The other point to note is that Sikhs throughout the world read Ragmala and it only a minority who question or doubt it’s authenticity, there are only a few Gurdwaras throughout the world where Ragmala is not recited and it is recited at Sri Akhal Takhat Sahib and Sri Harimander Sahib (Golden Temple).

Giani Sobha Singh who lived at Takhar Dyal Singh’s Dharamsala in Amritsar, was one of the first Sikhs to start the debate over the authenticity of Ragmala over a 100 years ago. He even compiled a Saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee without Ragmala in it and he took it to Sri Akhal Takhat Sahib for approval. The senior Sikhs of the day decided to offer an Ardas to Guru Jee, in this Ardas they said, ‘If Bhai Sobha Singh has done right then nothing should happen, but if he has done wrong then punish him accordingly.’ After just a week he became ill and his mouth was full of ulcers and he was in much pain, to the extent that he could not even speak. He wrote a letter begging for forgiveness and brought it to Sri Akhal Takhat Sahib and he said that no-one should ever make the same mistake again. Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Jee has told us of the greatness of reading Ragmala in his work Gur Bilaas:

Bhog Paavhu ….

Ragmala is read at the end of a complete recital of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, by doing this all your sins are eradicated.

Ragmala Parr …

By reading Ragmala the recital is complete, without it’s recitation it is incomplete.

We can only pray that Guru Jee brings the people who don’t believe in Ragmala to their senses, in this life as who knows what they will have to endure if they die doubting the authenticity of Ragmala.

[aeroo]

we should all sighn a petition saying ban the namdharis in the uk

[Jujhar Singh]

Bhai Sahib Bhai Tarunjeet Singh RSS vale

Yes I must be lol

yes you are because you are anti-raagmala!

get a life! support your guru's bani!

[tarunjeet singh]

Bhai Sahib Bhai Tarunjeet Singh RSS vale

Yes I must be lol

yes you are because you are anti-raagmala!

get a life! support your guru's bani!

I do read the article

[ghorandhar]

What About Baba Deep SIngh .Baba Zorawar singh, Baba Ajeet singh, Baba Jujhar singh , Baba Fateh SIngh , Bhai Mani singh Bhai Daya SIngh Bhai Himat Singh , Bhai mokham singh, Bhai dharam SIngh , Bhai Sahib SIngh, Bhai Mani SIngh ... just to name a few ...hmm where these Gurmukh pyara nto worthy of the title " Sant Mahapursh 108 Bramgiani "

Firstly Veer Confusingh why are you bringing up sants again? maybe you should first return back to the questions I asked you. The only people who agree with anything near to your defintion is Kala Afghana etc. Veer Dharamjudh has also presented you with another example.

Veer Taranjeet Singh If you look at your examples again you will realise that you used to names 'Baba' and 'Bhai'. Why not include: 'Bhagat' 'Gurmukh' 'Gursikh' etc. Your point is irrelvant. by saying they are not worthy of the title sant you are inferring that the word 'baba' is lower. Then why did Bhai Gurdas jee say, 'jithi Baba Pair tarai pooja asan tapaan soya'? I can remember reading Bhai Randheer Singh jee had great respect for Sant baba Teja Singh Mastuana, maybe you can shed more light on this?

When AKJs are the first to question the views of those who are against Dasam granth jee, then its natural others will question their views on raag mala which is questioning the Guru Granth Sahib jee. So people will feel double standards. However I think we have to rethink the use of the term enemies. Guru jee says, 'naa koo baree nahee bigana, sagal sangh ham kou ban ayee'. Its one thing to defend ourselves against Dehdhari, Kala Afghanas, RSS etc, but we should not compromise gurmat in achieving our objectives. The way we are acting we dont need to worry about RSS, Dehdhari etc, we will end up destroying each other. I dont think AKJs can be included in the category of RSS, Dehghari gurus etc, on this point of raag mala they have just failed to understand it. This is one Kamhee when you blindly follow a group.

RAAGMALA

The Fifth Guru Nanak, Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji, finished compiling the Pothi Sahib, now commonly known as Sri Guru Granth Sahib or Adi Bir in 1604 A.D. According to the prevalent procedure followed by authors of religious literature, Sri Guru Granth Sahib was started with the praise of the Almighty God in the form of Mool Mantra. After completing the Volume, the closing Shabad of Mundavani M.5 was put at the end as the closing Seal (the word Mundavani is derived from the word Mundana, i.e., to close), and was, of course, followed by the last thanksgiving shabad: Tera Kita Jaato Nahin...

While compiling the contents of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Sahib devised and adopted a very meticulous system of checks and balances so that no extraneous material could be interpolated anywhere without being discovered. Each entry herein is numbered and subtotals of each part are caaried forward to form the grand total. It was thus not possible for any miscreant to introduce any extraneous matter in the main body of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

However, it appears that certain people, including some devout Sikhs, started writing in the Birs in their possession certain pieces of information which they considered to be very important for the purpose of preserving their posterity. This is not unlike how some devout Christians reportedly recorded important family matters in their family Bibles so that on-coming generations may benefit from them. It seems very probable that some people may have added some extraneous material which they considered harmless though important for them and their families, at the end of the Birs in their possession. Thus, in some (NOT ALL) of the hand-written old Birs, including the one at Kartarpur Sahib, one or more of the following material has been found at the end of the last Thanksgiving shabad:

Jit dir likh Mohammada...

Baaey Aatish Aad...

Raig Ramkali Ratinmila

Hikikat Raah Mukaam of Raj Shivnibh

Raag Mala

Dates of Jyoti jot (ascension) of the first six Gurus are given in the beginning on spare pages in the Kartarpur Bir. There is also mention of year of 'fire in Kartarpur' as also the year of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's visit.

In certain cases the technique of making special ink (Ink formula) used for writing Sri Guru Granth Sahib, has also been written.

The remarkable thing is that in all such Birs wherein extraneous material has been added at the end, Raag Mala comes last of all. It is surprising that while all other items have been disapproved and excluded, only the Raag Mala, which was at the end of such material, has been pressed for inclusion, creating unnecessary controversy.

Some supporters of Raag Mala assert that when the original volume of Sri Guru Granth Sahib was completed, some Sikhs petitioned to the Satguru, to bless them with some prem maala which would help them in their deliverance from the cycle of birth and death.25 Acceding to their supplication, Guru Sahib himself composed Raag Mala and put it at the end! What logic! What a clever justification constructed by Raag Mala supporters! The whole of Dhur-ki-Bani contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, which is all full of praises of the Lord and Naam, could not help the Sikhs attain salvation. And, Raag Mala, wherein not an iota of Naam or God's Praise exists, should help them to reach the highest State of Divinity! Then why take the pains to read the whole of Sri Guru Granth Sahib when we can achieve our ultimate goal by reading Raag Mala alone? Is not the presentation of this reasoning itself a sacrilege of Dhur-Ki-Bani?

The true authorship and authenticity of Raag Mala has always remained dubious:

According to well-known historian Gyani Gyan Singh, in a Sarbat Khalsa Samagam held in 1906 Bikrami (1853 A.D.), it was declared that Raag Mala is not Gurbani. His actual words are:

(English Translation)

"In Samvat 1906 Bikrami, during the month of Katak, at the Dera of Sant Dyal Singh, a large Panthic gathering took place. On the Divali day, after detailed exchange of ideas and considerations, it was concluded that Raag Mala is not Gurbani."26

In 1900 A-D. - at the time of the founding of the Chief Khalsa Diwan, Sri Guru Granth Sahib was printed without containing Raag Mala. One such Bir is reported to be present now at Gujarwal in Ludhiana District. Again another printing of Sri Guru Granth Sahib took place in 1915 without Raag Mala in Gurmat Press at Amritsar - one of which is also present in Singh Sabha Gurdwara at Gujarwal. At that time the two top Sikh organizations, Tat Khalsa and Chief Khalsa Diwan, propagated zealously against reading Raag Mala.

In the early 1930s, a special committee was constituted by the newly formed S.G.P.C. to draft Gursikh Rahit Maryada. This committee, after detailed deliberations declared unequivocally that Raag Mala is not Gurbani. As a result, the first 1938 edition of the RAHIT MARYADA published by the S.G.P.C. clearly stated:

Guru Granth Sahib's reading should end after Mundavani and Raag Mala should not he read.27, 28

As a result of all these clear cut directions of the leading Sikh organizations, the reading of Raag Mala was stopped in many Gurudwaras. AT SRI AKAL TAKHT SAHIB, IT WAS ALREADY NOT BEING READ, AND IS NOT READ EVEN NOW. (Recently, for obvious reasons when there is no stable management authority at Sri Akal Takht Sahib, some pro-Raag Mala people are reported to have started reading it there. This is not based on any Panthic decision.)

However, in the later editions of the Gursikh RAHIT MARYADA, published by the S.G.P.C., the wording in this respect was changed without consulting even the members of the original Committee and without giving any explanation as to the basis of this change, to read as follows:

"...reading of Guru Granth should be concluded with the reading of either the Mundavani or the Raag Mala, depending upon local practice."

So now, it his been left to the Sangat whether to read it or not.

It may be noted that while all 'shabads' in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, without exception, exhort directly or indirectly, the importance of the Divine Naam for spiritual enlightenment, there is not even a trace of this divinity in the whole of Raag Mala. It is just a glossary or genealogy of some raags and sub-raags and their branches. In fact, it is not complete even in this respect so far as raags and sub-raags included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib are concerned, as shown below:

There are 31 pure raags and 6 mixed raags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Out of 37 raags, 12 raags do not find any mention in Raag Mala.

There are as many as 59 raags and raaginies in Raag Mala which are not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.29

Another very important but rather basic point to be considered in this respect is that Gurbani is the Divine Word. In spite of the fact that the whole Gurbani has been composed to be read in certain musical measures, it is not wholly dependant on these musical measures so far as its impact on the mind is concerned. Sri Guru Granth Sahib is not for teaching musical measures or raags but is meant to uplift the soul of one who reads it, sings it, or listens to it. In short, the only objective of the Gurbani is Spiritual Enlightenment. That is why Guru Sahib has not written anywhere on the intricacies of the various raags or on the so-called Gurmat Sangeet. The true Gurmat, and not the correct understanding of the raags, is the True Way of Life; though the latter is certainly very helpful and productive. In the closing Shabad of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji himself clearly summarized the contents of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. According to him, this platter (thaal) (Sri Guru Granth Sahib), contains the following three things:

Amrit Naam.

Resultant Contentment and Satiation of all desires; and, finally

The true understanding of the Divinity by constant meditation or Simran of the Amrit Naam.

Further, it is stated that in reality these are the three aspects of the only ONE THING - AMRIT NAAM. He has not made any hint regarding the presence of various raags and their wives and offsprings, etc., as they are only subsidiary to the major content.

The following quotations from Sri Guru Granth Sahib in this perspective are worth considering:

Raag Naad Sab Sohney Jau Laagey Sehaj Dhyan

Raag Naad Chhod Har Seviay Taa Darghey Payeeay Maan. (pg. 849)

Beauteous are the melody and music, if through Guru's word, one fixes his attention on the Lord. One attains the honor in the Lord's Court only when one rises above and gives up the means of the worldly melody and music.

Raag Naad Man Dujaay Bhayey. (pg. 1342)

Singing and learning temporal music makes one's mind attached to duality.

Sabhna Raagaan vich So Bhala Bhai, Jit Vasya Man Aaye. Raag Naad Sabh Sach Hai, Keemat Kahi Na Jaaye.

Raagey Naadey Bahraa,Inni Hukum Naa Boojhya Jaaey.

(pg. 1423)

Amongst all the musical measures, that alone is sublime, O Brother, by which the Lord comes to abide into the mind. The melodies in which Guru's word is sung are all true; their worth can be told not. The Lord is beyond the melodies and sounds. Merely through these, His will cannot be realized.

Mr. M. A. Macauliffe, who spent about 20 years in studying the Sikh history and scriptures at the end of the 19th Century, published his monumental work entitled The Sikh Religion in six volumes, in 1902. In discussing the completion and contents of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, he states:

"A Muhammadan poet called Alam in AH 991 (AD. 1583) wrote a work in 353 stanzas, generally from four to six lines each, called Madhava Nal Kandala. The Raga Mala, which forms the conclusion of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and contains a list of the raags and raaginis and their subdivisions, is a portion of Alam's work extending from 63rd to 72nd stanza. It is not understood how it was included in the Sacred volume. The Raags mentioned in it do not correspond with the Raags of the Granth Sahib."

The Mahan Kosh (Encyclopedia of Sikh Literature) of Bhai Sahib Bh. Kahan Singh refers to Raag Mala as under:

"Raag Mala: The 63rd to 72nd meters from the Hindi version of Madhavanal Sangeet composed by Alam poet and includes six raags, with five raginis and eight sons of each."30

In his other well-known authoritative work: Gurmat Sudhakar, he has commented in greater detail in this respect:

"Many people finish the reading (of Sri Guru Granth Sahib) at Raag Mala. Raag Mala is not Gurbani. It was composed by a poet named Alam, a contemporary of Emperor Akbar - in the year 991 Hijri or Bikrami 1641 - about 20 years before the compilation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib as is evident from the text of the SANGEET...Besides the fact that it is NOT Gurbani, Raag Mala is also against Gurmat because it makes no reference to Devotion, the True Knowledge and Love for God. The Raags in Guru Granth start with Sri Raag. Gurbani also says 'Sri Raag' is blessed among the Raags. It is further supported by Bhai Gurdas Ji who places Sri Raag on the top of the raags. As against this, the Raag Mala starts with Bhairav Raag. All the Raags contained in Guru Granth Sahib are not mentioned in Raag Mala. Also, all the Raags mentioned in Raag Mala are not contained in Guru Granth Sahib.

"In the Index of Guru Granth Sahib of Kartarpur, it has been indicated: 'All the leaves of Guru Baba: 974' (in that volume). Mundavani is written on leaf No.973 and 974th is blank. Some Sikh has inserted Raag Mala on additional leaves after 974 at the end of the Guru Granth just as Bhai Banno has inserted many additional Shabads and the anecdote of Sangla-deep without the permission of the Satguru....Many old volumes of Guru Granth Sahib are available at Buij of Baba Ala Singh, Patiala and Sri Abchal Nagar, etc., which do not contain Raag Mala..."31

Professor Sahib Singh, in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Darpan, states:

"Those people who have made some additions in Guru Granth Sahib, could do so only after Mundavani M.5 and Slok M.5."32

Therefore, according to him, Sri Guru Granth Sahib really ends at Slok M.5, inferring thereby, that whatever is written therein after Slok M.5, is not a part of the original volume and is thus not Gurbani.

His other comments and certain points raised by him are also very noteworthy and relevant in this respect:

In Raag Mala, the word 'Pun' which is a derivative of the Sanskrit word Punch - has been used while in the rest of Guru Granth Sahib the word is Phun. From a literary view point, it is very strange that none of the Gurus have used this word anywhere in their own compositions. (pg. 693)

The heading 'Raag Mala' has not been prefixed or suffixed by the name of its author, contrary to the system followed in Guru Granth Sahib. (pg. 693)

The system of putting numerals (1, 2, 3, etc.) in Raag Mala is absolutely different from the system followed in Guru Granth Sahib. Why so? (pg. 694)

Raag Gaund has been shown first as the son of Raag Sri Raag and then as the son of Raag Megh! (pg. 697)

The use of the numeral '1' twice in Raag Mala is confusing. (pg. 697)

It is very astonishing to note that certain Raags contained in Guru Granth Sahib have not been mentioned in Raag Mala, and a number of Raags not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib, are included in it. (pg. 697)

Similar references to Raag Mala have also been made by some other renowned scholars:

"Raag Mala is not the composition of the Satguru"

(Gur Partip Surya by Mahan Kavi Bhai Sahib Bhai Santokh Singh Ji)

"Mundavani was kept at the end of the Granth Sahib as the Closing Seal. Raag Mala was inserted by someone later..."

(Guru Tirath Kosh by Pt. Tara Singh Nirotam.)

"Just as Index has no relation with Bani - although it is the index of the Bani; similarly Raag Mala has no relation with Bani, though it refers to the same Bani."

(Bani Beora by Dr. Charan Singh)

Dr. Charan Singh, while admitting that Raag Mala is not Gurbani, insists that it refers to Raags contained in the Gurbani, an assertion which has already been shown to be incorrect. Further, does anyone ever start the reading of the Guru Granth Sahib with the Index given in the beginning?

Thus, it suffices here to say that it is very unjust to accuse certain sections of the Panth of attacking the purity and the unity of Sri Guru Granth Sahib simply because they do not read Raag Mala. The reading of Raag Mala does not provide any spiritual benefit and not reading it, is not at all a sacrilegious act. In fact, it is really sacrilegious to equate the writing of an ordinary poet with Dhur-Ki-Baani!

It would not be out of place to mention here the names of some well known personalities who did not consider Raag Mala as Gurbani and were, therefore, not in favor of reading it:

Mahakavi Bhai Santokh Singh; Pandit Tara Singh Nirotam; Gyani Dit Singh and Prof. Gurmukh Singh of the Singh Sabha Movement; well known historian Gyani Gyan Singh; Sadhu Gobind Singh Nirmala; Prof. Hazara Singh; J. C. Cunningham - the author of History of Sikhs; well-known historian Macauliff; Bhai Sahib Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha, the author of Mahan Kosh; Master Mota Singh; Master Mehtab Singh, Master Tara Singh, Gyani Sher Singh, Babu Teja Singh, Giani Nahar Singh, Principal Dharmanant Singh, Prof. Teja Singh, Principal Ganga Singh, Dr. Ganda Singh, Prof. Sahib Singh, S. Shamsher Singh Ashok Research Scholar of S.G.P.C., Pandit Kartar Singh Daakhaa, Principal Bawa Harkishan Singh, Principal Narinjan Singh, Prof. Gurbachan Singh Talib; Principal Gurmukhnihal Singh and many others.33

On the basis of the facts stated hereinfore, it can be safely summarized and concluded that:

Raag Mala was not composed by any of the Gurus.

It was not a part of the original Bir compiled by Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji, nor of the Damdami Bir.

Raag Mala is part of Madhavanal Kandala written by the Muslim poet Alam, about twenty-one years before the original Bir was compiled.

There are a number of raags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib which are not included in Raag Mala and vice versa.

The meticulous uniform system of numbering of all the Shabads in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, has not been used in Raag Mala. Raag Mala has no system of numbering as each portion has been numbered as one (1) which reveals nothing and is confusing.

There is no mention of the name of the composer anywhere as against the procedure employed in the rest of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

In some of the handwritten Birs there exist a number of other extraneous writings, including Raag Mala. When all other compositions have been rejected it is not understood why this composition, which was at the end, has been retained.

The person who wrote this article should get an ustad and ask for vidya of Kirtan and Raags.

Mundavanee does not mean seal. also Look at the following shabad: 'ehhh mudavanee satguru payee gursikha ladhee bhaal'. Read page 541 of Guru granth Sahib kosh by Veer Singh jee. Those people against Raag mala never refer to bhai Vir Singh jee, because he proves why Raag mala is bani.

Raag mala does not always come last in all the birs where extra bani comes in. Also an Extra shabad of bhagat Soor das jee is in these granths. Will you also take out all the bani which comes after Bhagat Soor das jee? There are lots of orginal birs from guru jees time which does not have the extra compositions but has Raag mala, such as bhurampur bir (signed by Guru Gboind singh), Hazoor Sahib bir etc.

Have you read the article Raag mala in gurbani paath Darshan by Sant baba Gurbachan Singh jee? in that artilce you will see that raag mala does not mean list of raags. What does Raag mean? it means prem. What does Baihroo mean? if you go through the arth from an ustad then you can understand that Raag Baihroo does not mean the raag which is sanpooran sanpooran where vaadi sur is Dha and sanvaddi is Ri. In otherwords Baihroo is not talking about 7 sura.

There is not 37 raags or 59 in Guru granth Sahib jee. LOL. Please meet an ustad and get vidya. And Also they are not Mistrat Raags (e.g. Raag Tilang Kafi). Misrat Raag is where you add a sur into a raag which changes its parkar. This is the problem when you dont meet Sants and Ustads and you totally get the theory wrong. If i played Raag Bairoo and added in Ri Shudh, you could say that was Raag Bairoo Misrat.

Those Raags not in Raag mala are either due to not be apart of Hindustani sangeet or being the creation of guru Sahib. Again if you meet ustads you might understand these concepts of sangeet. There is a specific reason why these raags are not in. And also you need to remember that Raag mala is not simply a list of Raags. But if you read Sant Gurbachan Singh jees book you will understand this. There is an article on Kamalroop Singh's blog if you want to understand this further.

There are over 20 raag malas in India. guru Arjan Dev jees raag mala does not match with Alam's at all. I dont know who started speading these lies. For example in bharoo Alam mentions Raag Mudhgan, Guru jee does not. Guru jee mentions Suhoo in Megh Raag, Alam does not. Alam mentions Kumbnee in Raag Megh and Guru jee does not. There are to many differences for me to go through, please read both Raag malas yourself. If you wish to Read about the grammatical differences between the two, then please read Bhai Vir Singh jees book.

Regarding Nanak Padh, please read Jap jee sahib and you wont find Nanak in some of the shabads. Also Jap jee sahib does not have mehla written, would you take this out? Jaap Sahib does not have Nanak paad, mehal etc, would you stop reading this?

The Raags mentioned in Raag mala but not in gurbani is because they blog to that raag. Also those raags are supposed to be sung in various compositions such as bhatta di swayaai. Please refer to Adutti Gurmat Sangeet smallen recordings of 2005 where all the raags were sung. Also if you understand the link bewtween for example Tilak Kamod and Raag Sorath, you will see how raags from thaats are sung. Again you need an ustad for this.

Each Raag has different thaats. Gound coming twice is no contradiction. Would it be a contradiction that at Darbar Sahib Raag Basant is sung in 4 different thaats?

What I find Astonishing is that AKJs complain that these extra raags are in raag mala yet cant be bothered to sing the 31 from the contents page.

If ive missed anything out please point it out. Again I can produce a list of Scholars and Sants who believe in raag mala, but what does that prove? Ive wrote this very simply, but again you need to find an ustad. If you cant be bothered to do that. Just buy Bhai Vir Singh jees Guru Granth Kosh and Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh jees Gurbani paath darshan and your bharam will be lifted.