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Ravidass Gurudawara's Soon To Be Just Temples?


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jason, you have every right to go your own way. but plz watch what you write. your views about Guru Ji and wars and such are stupid. You can follow who youwant, but as i posted earlier, you better watch what you say about Guru Gobind Singh and such.

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Jason12 ji,

I understand that you may be upset at the murder of one of your leaders, and that you are rightly disgusted at the retention in Sikhi of Hindu ideas of caste by some Sikhs, but you are crossing the line when you compare Ghasidas with Guru Gobind Singh Ji and when you attempt to threaten innocent Sikhs with possible violence at the hands of a Ravidassia majority.

I also find it rather ironic that you accuse Sikh society of casteism when your post is full of references to caste. The teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib - and this includes the teachings of Bhagat Ravidas - teach us that, in the court of God, there is no caste, neither does one's caste offer any particular advantage in the spiritual realm.

Also, while I have no doubt that there are brave Ravidassias - just as there are brave Sikhs-, the rioters who caused chaos and destruction across the Punjab were neither brave nor followers of any religion. Do you not agree?

I hope that, when your anger has subsided, you will be one of the many among the Ravidassia community who will help to repair wounds in your community and that you will make efforts to heal the rift that has grown between mainstream Sikhi and the Ravidassia path (as many Sikhs are already doing) so that both can coexist peacefully as we have done in the past.

However, if you are so overcome with krodh that you cannot control it without threatening harm, or attempting to harm, communities of innocent Sikhs in places where we are a minority, you should know that Sikhs have never relied on numbers to fight a battle or win a war: Sikhs are the children of Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh ji and Mata Sahib Devi, and we are protected by Sri SarbLoh and Sri Sarbkaal at all times.

Warm regards,

Kaljug Singh.

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a sad and painful post by Jason which only reflects the unfortunate truth at the ground level

a large part of our people are being alienated, beaten down and then told to forget about it and then we have the cheek to tell them that they are the brahmins slaves

I saw an interview with a Dalit actisit in Punjab where he says the Hindu cremation grounds are open to them but not the Sikh !

He went on to say that some Hindus were arranging intercaste weddigs and trainig as priests

All this while we debate about which Baba to murder next or which Dharmsala to raid all the same time patting ourselves on the back sayig we dont beleive in castes and its all the bahamns fault

some serious introspection required amongst our people or the future is very dim

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Guest amar_jkp
In India there are are 180 million Ravidassia, well done to the fundamentalist for closing the door to Sikhism for this community :@

Sikhism will become a fundamentalist religion confined to Punjab with a Jat mentality.

If you look at the Ravidassia history they are part of Sikhism from day one, Guru Nanak respected Guru Ravidass enough to have social interaction and learn from his teacings, Guru Arjan Dev incorporated Guru Ravidass Bani in the Adi Granth. Read up of the history of the Sikh Light Infantry, look at the rebellion of The Satnami Revolt Against Aurungzeb, see what Giani Ditt Singh did for Sikhism.

Many parts of Punjab no longer have a Sikh majority - Sikhism has failed to reach out to the so called lower caste Sikhs, Biharis etc. Guru Nanak was born a into a Hindu family - who were the original converts to Sikhism yes Hindus?

If Sikhisms does not reach out to other sections of the Indian community it will be left as a dying religion in terms of numbers and in years to come known as an in-bred religion (the gene pool has to expand - simple laws of science).

It would have been easier to convert a Ravidassia to the orthodoxy of Sikhism than a Hindu to convert to Sikhism!

sikhi wont be a in-bred religion, if it was to happen it would have happened when we were just 1000 something in numbers.

but agree with you on everything else. i see number of sikhs decreasing in india in the coming years/decades...

and there isnt a damm thing sgpc or any other sikh politician will do about it.

How can u be so sure ? I line in India in Indian capital , yes many sikh girls are marrying hindus amd manu young boys have become monas but on other side many have become khalistani too. These Kharku MENTALITY SIKHS are growing in large number many small jathas are coming up . We want sikhs to stop celebrating Hindu Festivals like Lohri , Rakhri , Karva Chauth . From my area i can confirm ,in future sikhs with Kharku mentality will increase.

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Guest jason12
Jason12 ji,

I understand that you may be upset at the murder of one of your leaders, and that you are rightly disgusted at the retention in Sikhi of Hindu ideas of caste by some Sikhs, but you are crossing the line when you compare Ghasidas with Guru Gobind Singh Ji and when you attempt to threaten innocent Sikhs with possible violence at the hands of a Ravidassia majority.

I also find it rather ironic that you accuse Sikh society of casteism when your post is full of references to caste. The teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib - and this includes the teachings of Bhagat Ravidas - teach us that, in the court of God, there is no caste, neither does one's caste offer any particular advantage in the spiritual realm.

Also, while I have no doubt that there are brave Ravidassias - just as there are brave Sikhs-, the rioters who caused chaos and destruction across the Punjab were neither brave nor followers of any religion. Do you not agree?

I hope that, when your anger has subsided, you will be one of the many among the Ravidassia community who will help to repair wounds in your community and that you will make efforts to heal the rift that has grown between mainstream Sikhi and the Ravidassia path (as many Sikhs are already doing) so that both can coexist peacefully as we have done in the past.

However, if you are so overcome with krodh that you cannot control it without threatening harm, or attempting to harm, communities of innocent Sikhs in places where we are a minority, you should know that Sikhs have never relied on numbers to fight a battle or win a war: Sikhs are the children of Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh ji and Mata Sahib Devi, and we are protected by Sri SarbLoh and Sri Sarbkaal at all times.

Warm regards,

Kaljug Singh.

Kaljug Ji,

The person who was murdered was not just one of our leaders. He was our spiritual guide and after Guru ravidass Ji, he was a prime exponent of Guru Ravidass Ji's message to the masses. So his murder was not a murder of a leader. For us, it was like the Shahidi Guru Arjan Dev Ji gave for humanity in his time. As far as Sant Ghasi Das or Guru Gobind Singh's comparison was concerned, the issue was only regarding between struggles with Aurangzeb that both of them had, and historically Sant Ghasidas gave a lot more tough time to Aurangzeb. Nobody should read much into this fact other than a mere coexistence of both groups. Now as far as me threatening is concered, I think it is unfortunately an inapropriate observation that you have made. It is a natural phenomenon that if you suppress a community beyond a certain extent, there reaches a point where they strike back.

Traditionally, in spite of associating with sikhism, chamars were always at the receiving end and this act by Sikh terrorists actually was the last straw. One thing that has happened in Punjab is that invincibility of Jatts or high castes sikhs is gone for ever now. it is not a threat that any such act in future would be met with appropriate resistance. If you were in my place, you would do the same. The fear factor that existed in low castes in Punjab has evaporated due to this act by Sikh terrorists. The rioting that happened afterwards, some of it was just venting out of the frustration but lot of it was mixing of antisocial elements with genuine protesters who then did the looting. In fact, we learnt that near phagwara, jatt boys brought a tempo, broken open a liquor shop and filled it with alcohol and sped away. The hooliganism is a misrepresentation of this rioting. However any property damage and disruption of daily life can't be condoned but then you also know that in India, nobody cares otherwise. It is fortunate that no civil war occurred and when I say it is fortunate that violence didn't spread to other parts of the country, it is not an invitation to comment that sikhs are children of ..... Everybody has their own strengths. The things could have been really bad.

Even during 1984, it is true that lot of "management" of the violence was done by antisocial elements or elements who were in control of administration at that time, bust people fail to express that it was also an expression of frustration, anger and anguish at the repeated killings of hindus in Punjab by Sikh terrorists, harrasment of common people on daily basis, targeted killing of officers in Punjab and terror that had been spread in Punjab. In that case, killing of Indira Gandhi (I don't have any liking for her style of governing) proved to be last straw. After that what happened to thousands of innocent sikhs all over India is unfortunately one of the most sad chapters of our history. My own uncle had to shorn his hair and stay in our home while he was merely visiting us. At the end of the day, perpetrators always escape and innocents who just want to go on with their daily lives get killed and their families destroyed. Terrorist element is to be blamed greatly for this. Mob violence doesn't care much about caste or religion. I know becaue I have been a victim. It doesn't matter at that point whether you are a brave sikh of Guru Gobind Singh or brave Ravidassia of Guru Ravidass or just a common Joe going about his daily life. It is like a feeding frenzy. Very sickening and so strong a feeling you get, it can shake your faith in humanity.

Ravidassias always wanted to coexist peacefully in Punjab and elsewhere with sikhs but Sikhs, due to their own casteist attitude, have always tormented Ravidassias. They have no business to interfere in Ravidassia affairs. Guru Granth Sahib is not their property. Holy Books are never for a specific religious group. Their forcing of sikh code of conduct is not acceptable to Ravidassias. in fact, it seems rather childish on their part to bicker about these things. Sometimes you wonder about their grey matter content. I don't want to sound insulting but some issues are so meaningless and you wonder what is going on. Now that childishness has taken form of stupidity and killing and our reverred saint has lost his life. As you mentioned, GGS doesn't support casteism but that's where it ends. People don't live in holy books, people live in society and Sikh society is sick with caste fever.

I am not angry. I am just frustrated and obviosly sad. I still have and will always have good sikh friends. In fact, my best friends have always been sikhs. Even my own Sikh friends wonder what is happening but as you would agree that Sikh intelligentsia is mum fearing for their own lives and livelihood from gurudwaras.

Warm Regards,

Jason

lol! which people are you talking about? 33% reservation in every sh1thole and still complaining?

My friend, reservation is not alms. We were deprived of education for 3000 yers and you have started crying after 50 years. Just worry about your 67%.

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Guest jason12
jason, you have every right to go your own way. but plz watch what you write. your views about Guru Ji and wars and such are stupid. You can follow who youwant, but as i posted earlier, you better watch what you say about Guru Gobind Singh and such.

I may have more respect for Guru Gobind Singh than you. You don't know. I am not the one who supports your so-called shahids of today who send their own children to Canada, America, UK and pay money to poor sikhs in Punjab to commit crimes and themselves go scot free. Guru gobind Singh setup an example first. A guru will never be a guru unless he walks the talk. I think Guru Gobind Singh was a unique personality in history. He not only created saint/sipahi, he also predicted their future (re. "vipran ki reet").

What I was talking about the struggles both gave to Aurangzeb. You should look at the whole post and not get wound up about one line. isn't it true that three high castes didn't really support Guru Gobind Singh because they aligned either more with rulers of the time or didn't fight?

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so these ravidassia........what did they contribute to punjab? kill any invaders? create a secular state where all are allowed to practice their beliefs? no. and now they want more and more. i dont defend jatt casteism. but when chamars start rioting when they kill their own 'guru' and want more and more off of us...........what about when we have nothing to give them? will they take our lives as well? this attitude of theirs has to be nipped in the bud. and dont believe the well versed word salad of terror apologists like jason.

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