When Someone Say's Sikhism Was Influenced By Islam

[virk30]

whats the best way to reply to this, cause i had a debate at work and im getting <Edited> off at describing how sikhism wasn't influenced by islam

[AK47 JATHA LION]

Ah Yes...the old "sikhism was influenced by islam" argument.

Many muslims try this one.

They often talk about Guru Nanak visiting mecca and also the shawl which he had with arabaic verses from the quaran..yes famous arguments they love to use.

Well best way to answer this <banned word filter activated> is to simply educate him a little in sikh History.

Tell the fool :

--that your correct, Guru Nanak did travel to Mecca. But he travelled many hundreds of miles on foot to spread the messsage of God. One of these places happened to be Mecca, because Muslims hold this place as the holiest on earth. Since muslims in mecca circled the kaaba and regarded it as the exclusive house of God, Guru Nanak thought it necessary to travel there and enlighten muslims about how god did not only reside in mecca, but everywhere.

Tell him, about how Guru nanak rested with his Feet pointing directly towards the kaaba. And tell him about how he was approached in anger by the temple priest about his actions. Then Guru nanak said "please point my feet in the direction that god is not". And how the priest could not do so, since God was everywhere.

Guru nanaks journey to mecca was a journey to enlighten muslims about God not belonging to muslims exclusively, but belonging to all of mankind. Nor did god reside in mecca alone, but everywhere. It is impossible to escape god , guru nanak taught the muslims in mecca.

---THe shawl that Guru Nanak had with arabaic verses from the quran enscribed on, is a common argument the muslims use to make sikhs question their belief.

The Shawl itself did belong to Guru Nanak yes.... but tell the fool that it was a gift given to him when Guru ji visited Baghdad (iraq). The Muslim priest gave it as a gift to the Guru.

It was a famous custom in those times for holy people to give gifts to other holy people, as was it a custom to accept with politeness.

The muslim priest knew Guru Nanak was a great person, so he gave him a gift as he visited Baghdad, and Guru ji kindly accepted. Thus it became the proerty belonging to Guru Nanak.

Now that does not make someone muslim simply because they have a few arabic verses on a shawl given to them as a gift..

ALso use the example of the Bible gift. I have a Bible at my house which was given to me by a jehova witness. i have it at my house on my bookshelf. I have also read it. But that does not make me a Christian simply because i have a bible at home given to me as a gift.

I also have a english translation of the Quran at home which was also given to me as a gift one time. That does not mean im "influenced" by Islam.

I know 1 singh who has 3 bibles at home, it does not make him anymore christian than me lol. One does not become muslim by recieving a gift from a muslim.

--Tell him, while in Baghdad , Guru Nanak had extensive dialogue with Muslim scholars there. In one dialouge with a pir there, the Guru contradicted the ISLAM belief of there being 7 heavens and 14 regions. Guru stated that there are countless earths and regions, contradictory to Islam.

--Quote him the line from SGGS, which says ... "hindu anaaa turkoo khanaa" .

It translates as "the hindu is blind, the muslim is one eyed".

Tell him that and see what he says about that.

The Turk of that time was described as one eyed, because they failed to see god in anyone else but themselves...Much like the attitude of the person who is arguing with u at your work place.

This very Arrogance of thinking only muslims belong to god is why they were described as "one eyed" .

--They may also use Bhagat Kabeer in an argument by claiming he was a muslim saint. Mention to him that the great Bhagat Kabeer was raised by muslim weavers but yet never said he was muslim. He saw himself as a human in the brotherhood of mankind above all. In all of his 500 verses of bani in SGGS, nowhere will you find him stating that he is a muslim, nor hindu, nor sikh nor sufi.

In his own words he said "the child of Allah and of Raam".

--Sikhs do not believe in altering their body to become religious (reffering to circumsition), nor triming their beird. Sikhs believe in the natural form as god gave it.

--Tell him Sikhs do not believe in Pilgrims, but Muslims believe in HAJJ to mecca being crucial.

--Also mention that Sikhs do not believe in pointless Fasts as Muslims do. Sikhs dont see any point in starving themselves to further their jeevan. Its pointless

--In no mosque will you find 4 doorways. harmander Sahib has 4 doorways. This has a big meaning

and has not been done by any other religion.

--Step in any gurdwara you will be fed with langhar. This also is unique. Has any mosque provided arrangements for langhar paani?

--Unlike Islam, Sikhism has given a place for all people from all backgrounds in SGGS. whether its Bhagat kabeer, jaidev, ravidass. All have a place. Islam has not provided that in the quran. So how are they alike?

--Sikhs do not regard as the body as important after death. We see it as a vessel which can return to dust/earth after cremation. In Islam they believe in burial for judgement day ressurection. So they believe in keeping the body burried until that day arrives.

--Mention that If Sikhism was so heavily influenced by Islam, then why in sikh history have Sikhs GLADLY given their HEADS rather than become MUSLIM? Clearly because Sikhi is a distinct system which is not influenced by Islam, and sikhs have felt it worth dying for.

--Finally Bhai mardana ji was a muslim, and a close friend of Guru Nanak. He followed Guru Nanak around on his travels. As a muslim he was fascinated by the guru's teaching of God.

THis is an example of how sikhi influenced Muslims, not vice versa.

ALso after the guru left the earth, Muslims and Hindus both fought over the rites of the blanket which had been covering the Guru's body.

So this proves that SIkhism was not influenced by islam, but rather Sikhism had an impact on some Muslims instead.

Tell him all this, then give him a kind patt on the back telling him that Sikhism was not influenced by Islam, but infact alot of muslims were impacted and influenced by the beauty sikhism.

[noonespecial]

...yeah, what he said.

[kuthaman]

whats the best way to reply to this, cause i had a debate at work and im getting <Edited> off at describing how sikhism wasn't influenced by islam

Guru Nanak was definitely born into a time when Islam was strong, but the story that best demonstrates his rejection of Islam when he was invited to prayer by Sultanpur Lodhi. LOdhi and the Qazi began to do all the rituals, and Guru Nanak just stood there. At the end they began quizzing Guru Nanak, he just laughed and replied that they were lost in thoughts about life and were just practicing empty ritual. Guru Nanak just laughed at their foolishness. Another famous story to rejecting the Islamic influence is where Mecca moved all over because of Guru Nanak's feet. Baba Farid's descendant Shaikh Brahm, the one gave Guru Nanak Baba Farid's hymns was a devout follower of Guru Nanak. His devotion to Guru Nanak was unmatched. The hymns represent a theme that the divine spark is not limited to one religion. If Baba Farid's hymns are important Muslims why have they lost the ability to recite them. Pak Pattan the holy place of Baba Farid, the hymns are not sung at all. Only Sikhs have retained the ability to recite them. A Scripture is what makes a community and it speaks the beliefs. The 99th page of Sri Dasam Granth Ji states

ਮਹਾਦੀਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਮਾਂਝ ਹੂਏ ॥ ਸਮੈ ਆਪਨੀ ਆਪਨੀ ਅੰਤ ਮੂਏ ॥੨੭॥

महादीन केते प्रिथी मांझ हूए ॥ समै आपनी आपनी अंत मूए ॥२७॥

Many Muhammads had been on the earth. They were born and then died in their own times. 27.

ਜਿਤੇ ਅਉਲੀਆ ਅੰਬੀਆ ਹੋਇ ਬੀਤੇ ॥ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤਾ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤੇ ॥

जिते अउलीआ अमबीआ होइ बीते ॥ तितिओ काल जीता न ते काल जीते ॥

All the Prophets and saints of the past were conquered by Death (KAL), but none could conquer it (him).

Islam is "strict monotheism" from what the say, but it can also be called a cult of the prophet. The Shahada the statement of faith includes Muhammad at the end. A strict rejection of the divinity of the prophet is a clear rejection of Islamic orthodoxy.

Best,

kuthaman

[Kaljug Singh]

---THe shawl that Guru Nanak had with arabaic verses from the quran enscribed on, is a common argument the muslims use to make sikhs question their belief. The Shawl itself did belong to Guru Nanak yes.... but tell the fool that it was a gift given to him when Guru ji visited Baghdad (iraq). The Muslim priest gave it as a gift to the Guru. It was a famous custom in those times for holy people to give gifts to other holy people, as was it a custom to accept with politeness. The muslim priest knew Guru Nanak was a great person, so he gave him a gift as he visited Baghdad, and Guru ji kindly accepted. Thus it became the proerty belonging to Guru Nanak. Now that does not make someone muslim simply because they have a few arabic verses on a shawl given to them as a gift..

Wait... A friend of mine gave me a superman t-shirt for my last birthday. Does this mean that it won't make me faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound? Damnit!

Yes, it's Superman - strange visitor from another planet who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. Superman - who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel with his bare hands, and who, disguised as Kaljug Singh, mild mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper, fights the never ending battle for Truth, Justice and the Khalistan Way

K.

[dalsingh101]

My usual response to this to Muslims is:

"Well, in that case Islam has been influeneced bu Judaism, Christianity and the Arabic culture of Mohhamad's heritage.

Clearly, we can see the circumcisms, skull caps, halal/kosher and hatred of pork common. and so forth..."

This has never failed to stop them dead in their tracks.....

[virk30]

its some dumb sikh who thinks sikhism was influenced by islam and hinduism, but yea are their any websites that show how we are different

[SunSingh]

search through www.sikhawareness.com. one of their members was a sikh scholar who converted to islam. this guy made all sorts of outrageous claims, and got totally refuted. you'll find good answers for the more clever arguments muslims make on the site.

[Guest amar_jkp]

R u talking about javanmard who converted to shia islam ? As far i know Bijla Singh started the forum.

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

whats the best way to reply to this, cause i had a debate at work and im getting <Edited> off at describing how sikhism wasn't influenced by islam

Explain to him how a majority of Maharaj Jis rehats indicate how Sikhi is a distinct and rare religion. All these rehats have no base in Islamic thought.

Not only do the rehats indicate we are a distinct religion, Guru Jis pavitar bani indicates that our Spirtual Philosophy is compleltely different. then Islamic thought. Ask your friend what Islams view is on Lakh Charasi and Gift of Human Birth, Jivan Mukhti,Sadh Sangat, and Naam. Im sure this will them quiet. As all the concepts are strictly Sikhi in which no other religon fully understands.