"It Would've Been Better If The British Never Left India.."

[Matheen]

oh yea of course they carried on what the british gave them, like half the chaupai sahib, half the rehraas sahib not to mention the whole Sau Sakhi, Dasam bani debates.

I wasn't referring to the SGPC or Singh Sabha - the Puratan Sampardas have remained largely unchanged since the 1700s.

[Jujhar Singh]

that can be argued either way, but the fact is they were of no use to India, they came they divided they attempted to conquer.

if you read the Times account's and newspaper articles from around that period (available online for a small fee) sikhs were described as loyal subjects of the british, with this status the british could infiltrate any filth and wrong teachings in to the sikh panth without the sikhs even realising.

Also if you read further into them they mention 'kookay' of 'satguru ram singh' and how they done their utmost best to keep from British rule. However that is a contrevertial topic for this website.

Just from reading a few sources from that period of time, one can clearly see that majority of sikhs were the 'arse lickers' of the British Raj and Victoria

[Matheen]

that can be argued either way, but the fact is they were of no use to India, they came they divided they attempted to conquer.

I agree - they looted the Punjab treasury to pay for WW1. At the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Punjab was one of the richest countries in the world. But India was already divided before they came.

Just from reading a few sources from that period of time, one can clearly see that majority of sikhs were the 'arse lickers' of the British Raj and Victoria

What was the alternative - bear in mind that other countries had their eye on the sub-continent as well and since most of the Sikhs were soldiers, they needed jobs, which the new army provided.

Baba Ram Singh and his kookey did sacrifice a lot, no question about that, but they weren't the only ones. Later on, many kookey joined the British Indian army too - I know a few families in Kenya who are descended from Kookey that worked for the British and were sent to East Africa as soldiers or police.

Anyway, its all in the past - jo hogeya, so hogeya.

[caveman]

no in my opinion, the vidiya may have been wiped out completely!

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

It was the British who undermined Sri Dasam Granth. In addition, it was the British who changed the distinct saroop of Khalsa. During British Raj dastar was taken out of Gurmat Maryada, and women stopped wearing Dastars.

[khanda123]

sikhi would have been warped if the brittish had stayed, jo vi hunda change lei hunda. Maharaj da Bhana hunnah?

[manni007]

JUJHAR SINGH SAID :

without the British singh sabha as well as the AKJ wouldn't have been created. Fact.

without the British, sikhi wouldn't be twisted, we wouldn't have so called 'Scholar's' adhering to a British version of Sikhi. Fact.

without the British, there would be no SikhISM. Fact.

In conclusion, the British ruined a religion/way of life. Fact.

If it wasn't for certain groups, sikhi would be 100% destroyed, those groups cannot be mentioned as people will get their elastic kachere in a twist.

The British ruined a perfect way of life, but our people let it happen.

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I AGREE, GOOD POST

[proactive]

without the British singh sabha as well as the AKJ wouldn't have been created. Fact.

without the British, sikhi wouldn't be twisted, we wouldn't have so called 'Scholar's' adhering to a British version of Sikhi. Fact.

without the British, there would be no SikhISM. Fact.

In conclusion, the British ruined a religion/way of life. Fact.

If it wasn't for certain groups, sikhi would be 100% destroyed, those groups cannot be mentioned as people will get their elastic kachere in a twist.

The British ruined a perfect way of life, but our people let it happen.

Total conjecture based on no evidence. Who knows what kind of reform movements would have come about if the kingdom of Lahore had not been destroyed by the British. If you think that most Sikhs especially the religious minded would have allowed manmat such as Sikh visiting Hindu mandirs or sufi shrines, of 'sikh' marriages conducted by Brahmins to remain the norm then you are very much mistaken. Even before the British entered Punjab the Nirankaris had already been created and were reforming Sikhi by resurrecting the Anand Karaj marriage and criticising of caste in the Peshawar area. That's as far as one can get from the British influenced Cis-Satluj area you can get. How come these Sikhs suddenly woke up one day and realised that the Sikhi around them was not the Sikhi preached by the Gurus? Had the British never entered Punjab then it is not beyond the realms of possibility that many reform movements such as the Kukas (without the anti-British bias) might also have come about.

It is a foolish belief to think that just because the British came to Punjab then it was their presence that created the reform movements. Any Sikh with some intelligence will know that the so-called snatan sikhi of the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh was a Sikhi that had degenerated due to the majority Hindu environment that Sikhs lived in.

[SaRpAnCh]

Without the British Sikhism would have been totally wiped of the face of this earth and would have been assimilated in to Hinduism totally.The British at one point even started to photograph Sikhs as the signs were that this faith will diminish and vanish so for records they took pis and made records on the Sikhs.

Had the British not preserved Sikhi we would all be Niddar Nang and his Chele Sanathanists ,had the GREAT SINGH SABHA

movement not been created the idols would have remained in Harmandar Sahib and so would have the Mahants.Had the British not taken over Panjab after the death of Maharaja Ranjit Singh Sikhi would have totally become Hinduism as at the time the Hindu Agents within the Khalsa Raaj weilded the most power,and if the British had not come in they would have had the raj and along with it the finishing off of Sikhism

In a way it is good that our historial artefacts are in Museums in England in temperature controlled rooms and are kept safe and secure,had they been left in the hands of India and the Brahmin regimes that came in they would either be damaged,lost or gone forever.

Although there was a lot of zulam commited by the British this was nothing compared to what India unleashed on Sikhs after 1947.The British at least asserted our seperate identity over the last century furing both World Wars and during their time in India when even British intelliegence reports like the one below showed how Sikhi was being eaten at:

Hinduism has always been hostile to Sikhism whose Gurus powerfully and successfully attacked the principle of caste which is the foundation on which the whole fabric of Brahminism has been reared. The activities of Hindus have, therefore, been constantly directed to undermining of Sikhism both by preventing the children of Sikh father from taking Pahul and reducing professed Sikhs from their allegiance to their faith. Hinduism has strangled Budhism, once a formidable rival to it and it has already made serious inroads into the domain of Sikhism. (D. Petrie, Assistant Director, Criminal Intelligence, Government of British India, Intelligence Report of 11th August, 1911)

It (Hinduism) is like the boa constrictor of the Indian forests. When a petty enemy appears to worry it, it winds round its opponent, crushes it in its folds, and finally causes it to disappear in its capacious interior....Hinduism has embraced Sikhism in its folds; the still comparatively young religion is making a vigorous struggle for life, but its ultimate destruction is, it is apprehended, inevitable without State support." (Max Arthur Macauliffe, 1903)

In terms of technological advances had the British stayed just look at Hong Kong which is further east which they just recently left and gave independece in the 90's.

[saint-soldier]

"It would've been better if the British never left India.." An accurate statement?

british raj in india = slavery

indian governments raj in india = slavery