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Sikh Channel - Bibi Fasion Statement


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khalsa_s1ngh, what are you trying to prove with the pictures? The pictures aren't from the time of 10th Guruji so what do they matter?

One of the pics shows the Mehal of Guru Gobind Singh ji with ears pierced and earrings in Amrit sanchar. In most Amrit sanchars initiates are told to stay sabat surat, and not wear pierced earrings. Hukum on "Sabat surat" is right from Gurbani and also sakhis. Are you trying to disprove "sabat surat"? Better to follow hukum than pics made after the fact.

Yeah, those pics prove nothing whatsoever, the first one seems to be a picture of Guru Hargobind Sahib ji (i.e. a PRE-khalsa event) showing the sakhi of when Guru Maharaj blessed the lady with sons. In regards to the one showing the amrit sanchar, if we are actually meant to take that picture as fact, forget women and dastars we should be more amazed at a real picture of guru gobind singh ji! (Which it obviously is not!) Clearly the whole pic is from an artists imagination. About the other pic, well we don't know for sure whether the lady in the picture is meant to be a sikh woman.

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Lol, this is the stuff 'Sikh Sangat Legend' is made of!

How sad and reflective of the holes in everyones lives - that they need to talk about this sort of irrelevant nonsense to 'feel complete'.

Be concerned with yourself, not others.

Other than that - there is an underlying AKJ agenda being driven here - there is no evidence at all to support Bibiyan wore Dastaaran in the 18th C, in fact paintings from that period tell a different story. Dastaar was onl;y worn by Bibiyan da jujaari fauj, which was very rare - we have examples like Mata Bhago - who were the exception and not the rule - (which is why only she fought witht eh 40 muktay and not the wives of the 40 Muktay - who shamed their Singhs to return to the battlefield.

Women in Dal Panth were usually widows - who joined the Dal to do seva - and even fight - and for safety and battlefield psychology reasons would have dressed exactly like her Khalsa brethren (so not be distinuished and identified as a lady in war). Most other women would not have been much different to look at than their Punjabi counterparts.

Sorry, I have to object to your post.

Ironically, I will be using a source from a nihang site (all due credit to them for putting it up)

Note that in this source there are only FIVE women dressed 'exactly like men' (presumably representing the panj pyare), the rest are ALL wearing FEMALE clothing, clearly they are NOT trying to make themselves indistiguishable from men. Also note that they were quite easily recognised as women by the muslim women, and also that clearly not all were widows as they are mentioned as being married and being made up of both old and young!

Adorning weapons, chakars [quoits] and knifes they wore many [in their dumallas – high conical turbans]. Forty kilos of weapons and armour they adorned. Dressed alike were young and old women. They were strong, powerful and of great charity. Some wore dress of women. Five dressed like men [i.e. in full warrior dress]. Getting Singh and Singhnias ready thus. Sending one Sirdar with them, the Singhnia set off towards the royal palace. The powerful Singhs stood outside. All the royal women came out to see them. They [singhs] had great moustache and beards. Their eyes were full of rage and eyebrows greater. Wearing many weapons. Seeing their great form and beauty, they were as if incarnations of the warrior spirit. The Begams were astonished. Begams sent them [singhs] gifts. Saluting the Singhs, they sent them away. Then they looked at the Singhnia. They took them into their palace. They [singhnia] said, “Sat Siri Akal”. They replied “Salaam” and sat them down. Seeing their form and strong bodies. Dressed in armour and weapons. Listening to their conversation of plundering and war. And how to kill a hunt. And how to aim with bows and muskets. Hearing them, they were astonished. Under their 'Salwars' [trouser like garments], were 'Kashehras' [breeches]. Seeing their great clothes. Listening to their manly words. The Begams were astounded. The four Singhnia had a special female dress. They wore silver ornaments twenty pounds in weight. Seeing this they were awe struck. Their Salwars were twenty yard long. They wore heavy lower garments. Their top knots stood span and half high. Their Shmeezes were of special design. Their physiques were large and heavy. Seeing them the Begams were astounded because they stood unarmed and weak of body. Fearing the Singhnia they cowered to half their size. Then began discussion on religion. Singhnia dismissed all other religions. The traditions of Muslims [Turks] they called false. The way of Mohammed they said was full of faults. [it has to be noted that this was a time of extreme persecution of Sikhs by Sunni Muslim Moguls and Afghans and there was great hostility towards Sunni Muslims] The Singhnia described all the atrocities of the Turks. Hearing them the Begams shuddered. Shocked they covered their mouths with their hands. Hearing of the chastity, sincerity and morals of the Singhs. The Begams spoke nodding their heads. “Singhnia you are of great fate. You move about with you husbands. We are pathetic and suffer greatly. Our life is like life imprisonment. One king has sixty wives. By marrying we are as if trapped in a trap”.'

('Naveen Panth Prakash', Giani Gian Singh Nirmala, 1877, Bhasha Vibhag Publication, Pa.1151-1153)

(Shastar vidiya site)

In the below image, the bibi is quite obvsiouly wearing a small keski under the chunni like bibia in india do, also in full female dress and even earings, these facts plus the small keski (not a dumalla), do NOT in the least suggest war or disguise as a man.

http://www.amritworl...g_with_wife.jpg

Furthermore

J. D. Cunningham himself saw and wrote in the middle of the Nineteenth Century when he wrote his book, History of the Sikhs. He writes: "The Sikh women are distinguished from Hindus of their sex by some variety of dress but chiefly by a higher top knot of hair." (Searchsikhism.com)

Now if someone did not know women wore keskis, then they might easily mistake their small keski for a "high topknot", eg.

eg if you look close enough at the below pic, you can see a keski underneath, but would someone with no idea about females wearing a keski even think it was anything but a joora?

http://tapoban.org/a...singhnibig.html

or even this one http://tapoban.org/a...--File0004.html

Panthic or puratan Sampyradic rehits do not require grihisht Bibiyan to wear dastaars - this was a new innovation started by the likes of the notorious Bhasauria and those he influenced (reformers).

That's a pretty cheap shot.

These images are after 1930's. That dose not proves anything.

Look it’s totally up to the Bibi if She wants wear a Dastaar or not. We are becoming the new Brahmins. We appose them so much, we are becoming them.

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These images are after 1930's. That dose not proves anything.

WOW, if only people would actually READ posts. Please READ the post, and see in what context I have used those pictures.

Look it’s totally up to the Bibi if She wants wear a Dastaar or not.

Yeah you are right, its up to Singhs like me whether I wear a dastar or not, yeah you know what I'm gona start wearing my hair in a pony tail now, maybe put in a few braids here and there to.

We are becoming the new Brahmins. We appose them so much, we are becoming them.

Yes, that makes perfect sense now doesn't it. We don't want to be brahmins yet we should look like them lool.

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:)

Dear Brother,

Your first pic is of a certain elderly Mataji trying to get a // (boon) of seven sons from Guru Hargobind ji. Interestingly, the sakhi states the Mataji was birdh (elderly) yet the pic shows her as about 20 years old. Think what you want about that.

The second pic is of some Singh and a woman. Is she his wife, sister, or some Hindu lady he was escorting back to her house after rescuing her? And did the artist know that for sure, asking the couple as they stood in the Indian sun for 8 hours. (The shadows are short in the pic.) Or did he paint the pic as a composition after seeing a bunch of people in his travels?

Anyway, it's interesting that you've posted the pic as an apparent model for Khalsa women to keep their hair bare and bellybutton peeking out under thir blouse and saying "Hello". Yet the Singh is wearing a pajami. Now read the Buddha Dal rehit, which clearly states "Don't wear a pajama". So is rehit going to be made from random pics or not? Or just for women?

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These images are after 1930's. That dose not proves anything.

WOW, if only people would actually READ posts. Please READ the post, and see in what context I have used those pictures.

Look it’s totally up to the Bibi if She wants wear a Dastaar or not.

Yeah you are right, its up to Singhs like me whether I wear a dastar or not, yeah you know what I'm gona start wearing my hair in a pony tail now, maybe put in a few braids here and there to.

We are becoming the new Brahmins. We appose them so much, we are becoming them.

Yes, that makes perfect sense now doesn't it. We don't want to be brahmins yet we should look like them lool.

You can wear the Dustaar any way you like, I don’t really care. You can have braids, I wouldn't care less.

As for the Brahmins, We appose them so much but we act like them. Hope that makes a bit clearer for you to understand, I shouldn’t put it so philosophically.

Guru Fethay

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WJKK WJKF

Sangat Ji,

I feel it is important for the Sikh Channel to know the views of others due to the beadbi of Maharajs Roop they are allowing.

The advert for the "Childrens program" the Bibi posing as the "Mom" wears a read dastar. As this is not a Khalsa colour, why wear it so it makes others think this is an accepted colour to the Khalsa? We try to preach to non sikhs when they see our wedding photos why we do not wear red but instead blue and white and why we do not wear red dastars but if the "Keep it Free for the Non Sikh Viewers" see this, it raises questions and as do all people, if they see something on the TV, it means more to them then someone saying something.

Secondly, the bibi doing the show this morning, wore a pink dastar!?! And then had makeup on aswel? Please can someone correct me, but i have always been taught by Gursikhs, at camps, in the gurdwara sahib makeup is wrong? Please can this now be confirmed?!?

The "Sikh channel" really does NOT seem to be showing the correct image of the Sikhs which this level of Maharajs Roop being disrespeted.

Sikh Channel, please correct this actions. I did email you but i did not receive any response.

My apologies if there are any bibia on here who feel it is ok to wear a dastar and makeup or multi coloured fashion statement dastars. As a abibi myself, i feel this is not the way forward. We want to be "Amritdhari" and wear Dastars but more importantly, want to dress like manmukhs and disrespect the image of the Khalsa with painting our faces to make ourselves feel pretty.

While i mention this, please sikh channel, "PLEASE FORGET TO TAKE OF THE NOTICE ABOUT NOT FORGETTING TO SET UP A DIRECT DEBIT". If your channel is supposed to be continuous, maharaj will himself provide enough funding without you constantly forcing people to feel the need to donate. See there is a difference between donate and setting up a direct debit. You can post it on your website, not leave a notice and run special shows just on how to fill in the damn form. Im sure, we all know how to fill in our details seeing as we have to fill them in for just about anything we do in todays world.

My apologies Sangat Ji, the nature of the channel constantly requestin money and now seeing how they are allowing bibis to potray the dastar, is more so putting me off watching the channel full stop. From watching daily, i know only flick over for Sukhmani sahib at 12pm and occasionaly if i get a call to say there is nice Katha / Keertan on the live show. I really have lost interest in watching the channel as all i see is the continuous degrading of Sikhi - TO BEG FOR MONEY.

Baba Nand Singh Ji, Nanaksarwale, enforced his chellay had no money at all while doing seva with him. No money for food, no money for the Gurdwara sahib nothing. They were not allowed to have money at all. The reason why? Because he had full faith in maharaj that only he can provide what he needs. We have stooped to just begging for money. It makes me think, what has Sikhi now become.

The channel is good, i like the idea, just not the begging and displaying of the Khalsa image.

WJKK WJKF

Sangat Ji,

I feel it is important for the Sikh Channel to know the views of others due to the beadbi of Maharajs Roop they are allowing.

The advert for the "Childrens program" the Bibi posing as the "Mom" wears a read dastar. As this is not a Khalsa colour, why wear it so it makes others think this is an accepted colour to the Khalsa? We try to preach to non sikhs when they see our wedding photos why we do not wear red but instead blue and white and why we do not wear red dastars but if the "Keep it Free for the Non Sikh Viewers" see this, it raises questions and as do all people, if they see something on the TV, it means more to them then someone saying something.

Secondly, the bibi doing the show this morning, wore a pink dastar!?! And then had makeup on aswel? Please can someone correct me, but i have always been taught by Gursikhs, at camps, in the gurdwara sahib makeup is wrong? Please can this now be confirmed?!?

The "Sikh channel" really does NOT seem to be showing the correct image of the Sikhs which this level of Maharajs Roop being disrespeted.

Sikh Channel, please correct this actions. I did email you but i did not receive any response.

My apologies if there are any bibia on here who feel it is ok to wear a dastar and makeup or multi coloured fashion statement dastars. As a abibi myself, i feel this is not the way forward. We want to be "Amritdhari" and wear Dastars but more importantly, want to dress like manmukhs and disrespect the image of the Khalsa with painting our faces to make ourselves feel pretty.

While i mention this, please sikh channel, "PLEASE FORGET TO TAKE OF THE NOTICE ABOUT NOT FORGETTING TO SET UP A DIRECT DEBIT". If your channel is supposed to be continuous, maharaj will himself provide enough funding without you constantly forcing people to feel the need to donate. See there is a difference between donate and setting up a direct debit. You can post it on your website, not leave a notice and run special shows just on how to fill in the damn form. Im sure, we all know how to fill in our details seeing as we have to fill them in for just about anything we do in todays world.

My apologies Sangat Ji, the nature of the channel constantly requestin money and now seeing how they are allowing bibis to potray the dastar, is more so putting me off watching the channel full stop. From watching daily, i know only flick over for Sukhmani sahib at 12pm and occasionaly if i get a call to say there is nice Katha / Keertan on the live show. I really have lost interest in watching the channel as all i see is the continuous degrading of Sikhi - TO BEG FOR MONEY.

Baba Nand Singh Ji, Nanaksarwale, enforced his chellay had no money at all while doing seva with him. No money for food, no money for the Gurdwara sahib nothing. They were not allowed to have money at all. The reason why? Because he had full faith in maharaj that only he can provide what he needs. We have stooped to just begging for money. It makes me think, what has Sikhi now become.

The channel is good, i like the idea, just not the begging and displaying of the Khalsa image.

I don’t think you have any right to judge other people. If you have come onto a forum to put people down then what does that say about your Sikhi and how far your mentality reaches. Sikhi also teaches you are meant to stay HUMBLE and should never JUDGE others… If a person feels comfortable in what they wear and how they look they should be allowed to live,,,,, the thing you can do is NOT DO IT YOURSELF IF IT UPSETS YOU THAT MUCH…but leave others alone as they are on their separate path to yours…HOW DARE YOU Be personal to ANYBODY….THIS IS NOT WHAT SIKHI TEACHES…. Yes I do realise that it seems as though I am doing the same thing but I am a non Amrit Dhari who is trying very hard to take Amrit but things like this makes it that much harder and is making me take steps backwards not closer to it..

As for putting the Sikh Channel down I would love to see you pay £50,000 out of your own pocket each month just so its kept free for the Sikh Community.. You say you watch it,, but fail to remember that this channel is for the youth of today and tomorrow so instead of supporting it you put it down. I would love to know why you watch it then. There is people out there who want to support the channel and put in towards it,,, SEWA!!! Just so its kept running for free for people like you to watch and if you really do have that much of a bad opinion of the channel and the sewedar that do take their time out and help to keep it running then don’t watch it.. And carry on watching TV,,,

Sangat Ji,

I feel it is important for the Sikh Channel to know the views of others due to the beadbi of Maharajs Roop they are allowing.

The advert for the "Childrens program" the Bibi posing as the "Mom" wears a read dastar. As this is not a Khalsa colour, why wear it so it makes others think this is an accepted colour to the Khalsa? We try to preach to non sikhs when they see our wedding photos why we do not wear red but instead blue and white and why we do not wear red dastars but if the "Keep it Free for the Non Sikh Viewers" see this, it raises questions and as do all people, if they see something on the TV, it means more to them then someone saying something.

Secondly, the bibi doing the show this morning, wore a pink dastar!?! And then had makeup on aswel? Please can someone correct me, but i have always been taught by Gursikhs, at camps, in the gurdwara sahib makeup is wrong? Please can this now be confirmed?!?

The "Sikh channel" really does NOT seem to be showing the correct image of the Sikhs which this level of Maharajs Roop being disrespeted.

Sikh Channel, please correct this actions. I did email you but i did not receive any response.

My apologies if there are any bibia on here who feel it is ok to wear a dastar and makeup or multi coloured fashion statement dastars. As a abibi myself, i feel this is not the way forward. We want to be "Amritdhari" and wear Dastars but more importantly, want to dress like manmukhs and disrespect the image of the Khalsa with painting our faces to make ourselves feel pretty.

While i mention this, please sikh channel, "PLEASE FORGET TO TAKE OF THE NOTICE ABOUT NOT FORGETTING TO SET UP A DIRECT DEBIT". If your channel is supposed to be continuous, maharaj will himself provide enough funding without you constantly forcing people to feel the need to donate. See there is a difference between donate and setting up a direct debit. You can post it on your website, not leave a notice and run special shows just on how to fill in the damn form. Im sure, we all know how to fill in our details seeing as we have to fill them in for just about anything we do in todays world.

My apologies Sangat Ji, the nature of the channel constantly requestin money and now seeing how they are allowing bibis to potray the dastar, is more so putting me off watching the channel full stop. From watching daily, i know only flick over for Sukhmani sahib at 12pm and occasionaly if i get a call to say there is nice Katha / Keertan on the live show. I really have lost interest in watching the channel as all i see is the continuous degrading of Sikhi - TO BEG FOR MONEY.

Baba Nand Singh Ji, Nanaksarwale, enforced his chellay had no money at all while doing seva with him. No money for food, no money for the Gurdwara sahib nothing. They were not allowed to have money at all. The reason why? Because he had full faith in maharaj that only he can provide what he needs. We have stooped to just begging for money. It makes me think, what has Sikhi now become.

The channel is good, i like the idea, just not the begging and displaying of the Khalsa image.

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Yes I do realise that it seems as though I am doing the same thing but I am a non Amrit Dhari who is trying very hard to take Amrit but things like this makes it that much harder and is making me take steps backwards not closer to it..

wjkk wjkf

So, bhenji, If there were a 1000 amrit dhari's judging, mocking or making fun of others, would that make you take another 1000 steps back? As far as judging anyone, it takes time to throw away this habit. Doesn't mean once your amritdhari you will shine with good virtues. It takes time in whatever we do to adapt in certain situations.

As to the rest of your post, the Sikh channel (presently) is not broadcasting. Yeah you've guess it, donations. We must remember, whenever we start something enormous there will be huge obstacles. By struggling and then identifying our way past these set backs will only make us stronger. In the same way this is the first ever Sikh channel in the WORLD, it's bound to get so many flaws. Patience is the key my friend.

Bhul chul maaf

fateh

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It's a massive shame for the 700,000 strong Sikh community, comprising of around 200,000 families, and possibly one of the most successful, affluent, flaunting communities in the UK who can build spectacular Gurdwaras in the region of £15 million, spend £100,000 on our daughters weddings, own brand new Bentleys, Mercs and BMWs.

We talk about the lack of progression and when someone does actually do something proactive we criticize, suspect, accuse and refuse to support them. As many say, we are responsible for weighting ourselves down.

If we want this medium to exist then we need to feel strong enough to get our extended families, our relative, friends and local sangat to set up direct debits in order to support this sewa.

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Yes I do realise that it seems as though I am doing the same thing but I am a non Amrit Dhari who is trying very hard to take Amrit but things like this makes it that much harder and is making me take steps backwards not closer to it..

Sikhi is about humility, does that mean we simply kiss the feet of those who slaughter our faith? I am a culprit for breaking this rule. I must beg forgiveness. Being an Amritdhari doesnt mean you have to be a wimp for the rest of your life. It means, yes you are humble and accept maharajs hukham. That is the humility maharajs talks about. Living in the charan of others. To do seva of the panth. This is humility. To hide away and not say when something is wrong, is cowardly.

There are Sakhis i remember listening to when i was finding my path to Sikhi and they stick with me to this day such as - The moghals said no one can ride a horse but them, so the Sikhs rode horses. They Said no one but a King can wear the Kalgi, So Maharaj wore the Kalgi. Singhs set up toll booths and taxed the mogals for using the road rather then paying the taxes which were forced upon them. All these Khalsa sikhs had humility - in the sense maharaj wished them to.

I can only believe according to your mentality this was incorrect of Maharaj and the Khalsa as they were not humble enough to accept the humility you speak off.

Penji, Life is full of hurdles, you get over them. If something like this puts you away from Sikhi, then you need to make it stronger in better sangat. Watching "Amritdharis" behave like regular persons on the street is whats pushes me away from Sikhi - hence now days, i avoid just about everywhere where there is a bunch of youth as those are the ones with the Hero Sikhi mentality that they believe is correct.

As to the rest of your post, the Sikh channel (presently) is not broadcasting. Yeah you've guess it, donations. We must remember, whenever we start something enormous there will be huge obstacles. By struggling and then identifying our way past these set backs will only make us stronger. In the same way this is the first ever Sikh channel in the WORLD, it's bound to get so many flaws. Patience is the key my friend.

Bhul chul maaf

fateh

Does sky give a free allowance to broadcast only text? If the channel is not broadcasting the regular slots one can only assume this?

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