Khalistan Is Unjust

[freespirit]

Sikhs were created to unite india and keep it free from invaders.

throughtout history the two have been brothers

http://www.hindusikhorg.blogspot.com/

[Matheen]

That may be your opinion, but the facts are that there was no unified India as we know it until the British came. Before that, there were dozens of independent kingdoms but never a single country.

[THE WARRIOR]

That may be your opinion, but the facts are that there was no unified India as we know it until the British came. Before that, there were dozens of independent kingdoms but never a single country.

Actually you’re wrong, The Ashoka and Gupta empires and others ruled the vast majority a unified India and other bordering lands, more than what it is today.

[Mehtab Singh]

In a way you are right based on these maps, but the question about Khalistan is not about who ruled how much land for how long, but about who could/can rule justly. We have seen Islamic and Hindu regimes already, and there are enough who will support both of them. That doesn't change the fact about what they did or are doing to those who don't subscribe to their ideology. These kingdoms were purely political in nature and were inflated because of the kings' greed for more land. Khalsa believes in miri and piri, therefore Khalistan would not be a purely political entity but a religious one as well. It will not be attained because of one man's greed for power and will not subjugate a differing opinion or way of life.

[THE WARRIOR]

In a way you are right based on these maps, but the question about Khalistan is not about who ruled how much land for how long, but about who could/can rule justly. We have seen Islamic and Hindu regimes already, and there are enough who will support both of them. That doesn't change the fact about what they did or are doing to those who don't subscribe to their ideology. These kingdoms were purely political in nature and were inflated because of the kings' greed for more land. Khalsa believes in miri and piri, therefore Khalistan would not be a purely political entity but a religious one as well. It will not be attained because of one man's greed for power and will not subjugate a differing opinion or way of life.

Thank you for proving my point…..do the math! Dont just look at the pretty pictures! LoL! If you could put up the Ashoka one that will be also very helpful!

"These kingdoms were purely political in nature and were inflated because of the kings' greed for more land!"

i dont think so!

Khalsa Raj is not Khalistan!! stop the brainwashing!

[Mehtab Singh]

"These kingdoms were purely political in nature and were inflated because of the kings' greed for more land!"

i dont think so!

Khalsa Raj is not Khalistan!! stop the brainwashing!

LOL, I wasn't proving your point sir, I was merely trying to prove that big kingdoms mean nothing. Where are these kingdoms today? Where are the descendants of those kings today? Gurbani also says that greedy kings who ruled large parts of land ended up in dust. If you think these kingdoms were not inflated out of greed, maybe we both have been referring a different version of history then, and either one could be right. However, the way I understand it, Khalistan based on Gurmat won't have the concept of a greedy king, simple as that.

And Khalistan is just the beginning of Khalsa Raj!

No brain washing there, pure fact!

Guru Sahib says "raaj bina neh dharm chaley hain, dharm bina sab dalay malay hain. He makes it clear as to WHY one would need raaj. Look at the Islamic coutries. They follow and even enforce Islam in their raaj. Christians do the same in their controlled nations. Hindus are going to the extent of engulfing non-Hindu faiths as "branches of Hinduism" in their raaj, i.e. India. The present day situation of Sikhs in India (and all over the world for that matter) is exactly what Dasmesh Pita Ji said "dharm bina sab dalay malay hain". That is what we've become, dalay malay. He said "jab eh gaye bipran ki reet, mai nah karu inn ki parteet". Loads of Sikhs are stuck in bipran ki reet already. That is why Guru Sahib isn't really doing parteet of such Sikhs. So now we are stuck in bipran ki reet, and therefore we have become dalay malay. The solution is then to have Sikh raaj, to have Khalsa raaj. Guru Sahib also tells us how to get it. "Koi kisi ko raaj nah deh hai, jo leh hai nij bal se leh hai", you have to fight and win it. No one is going to offer it to you.

By the way, Bhai Sahib Bhai Rama Singh ji has a detailed account of Khalsa Raj.

Check these out:

http://www.sikhsanga...indpost&p=22146

http://www.sikhsanga...indpost&p=22147

These are pages I scanned 5-6 years ago from Bhai Sahib's autobiography "In Search of the True Guru". Also, Bhai Sahib was born in a non-Punjabi Brahmin family, so rest assured as he had no "agenda". For more, read the book and find out for yourself, don't go by what I say or what others say. I wouldn't doubt the words of a Gurmukh pyaara like Bhai Sahib. You can decide for yourself what you want to do.

[Matheen]

I was referring to more recent, pre British eras. You might as well go back to pre Hindu eras and keep going to prove who the land really belongs to. I fail to see the relevance of the Ashoka or Gupta eras to the 1400s onwards, when Guru Sahib revealed themselves.

I'm not bothered about Khalistan either, because there isn't anyone to lead it and we aren't unified enough. However to say that Sikhs were created to protect Hindus from invaders is ludicrous. The Khalsa protect the weak and oppressed, whoever that may be, but you can't help others if you're weak yourself!

Sikhi is primarily a path to Waheguru, the requirement to bear arms is to facilitate bhagti without interference - you can't do bhagti easily without freedom. Being the master of compassion, Guru Sahib said we should protect the weak and poor but that is just one aspect of Sikhi.

[manni007]

I got to say The Warrior and Nehmat got to be one of the most Intelligent guys on this site, they always make meaningful mostly FACTUAL posts!

Ur right India was a UNITED country LONG before the British empire invaded.

Furthermore the GUPTA Empire and ASHOKA Empire United more land mass of India than even the British, In fact parts of modern day Afghanistan were also annexed to India in those times.

[Mehtab Singh]

Furthermore the GUPTA Empire and ASHOKA Empire United more land mass of India than even the British, In fact parts of modern day Afghanistan were also annexed to India in those times.

Agreed, but my question still remains unanswered. What was the outcome? Where are they now? Also, I don't think you could compare these kingdoms to the Khalsa Raj description given out by Bhai Sahib Bhai Rama Singh Ji. Some people also hold the view that it was British who "united" India. Remember India is a mixture of a huge number of languages, religions, cultures, norms, societies, customs, cuisines, complexions and what not. It was the fight against British imperialism, according to some historians/scholars, that brought all of them together as a united faction.

But coming back to Khalistan. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one is going to sue you for posting your views online LOL. The choice is yours. You want to abide by the words of SatGuru Ji and the vision of His Gurmukh pyara Singh, or otherwise. This debate on Khalistan has taken place on a number of online Sikh forums way too many times for the past Vaheguru knows how many years. There is never a conclusive result as neither side is ready to back off LOL. Both present their views, logics and arguments quiet well, and defend them pretty good as well.

However, the fact remains that the wounds of 1984 continue to remain unhealed. Justice hasn't been served. I would like to request the anti-Khalistan brothers to please go and present your views to the mother who saw her innocent teenaged son burnt to death in Delhi in November 1984, or to the father who saw his young and unmarried daughter gang-raped by the Punjab police officers in front of his eyes in the late 80s. Maybe achieving Khalistan will not heal their wounds, but atleast we can be sure that never again will any mother have to see her innocent teenaged son burnt, never again will a father have to helplessly be witness to the dishonor of his "phullaan vargi dhee" at the hands of those who hold power.

[swanhouse]

Things wont change for the better in khalistand, because it will be the same people in power same police but the country will be less freedom and more killing in the name of god, not somewhere i would want to be.

Its not a good idea, lets fight for rights in india. I cant believe people still think there may be one. No one in india wants it, its a way for those evil gianis to raise money in the west and create terrorism in punjab. I am sad to say but there will be another 1984, when the whole state is thrown back another 50 years and more sikhs and hindus are killed on both sides, there is just too much money to be made in the west.

makes you feel ashamed doesnt it.

Also there were many hindu deaths no one speeks of the hindus killed leading up to 1984