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You talk about segregation of women and men in the Bhatra community - but you are clearly segerating "Bhatre Sikhs" and "Jatt Sikhs" in your above post? Whats the difference between a "Jatt Sikh" and a "Bhatra Sikh"? or maybe even a "Tharkan Sikh" etc? Only one has the ability and the temperament to be a GurSikh? I think not. This is the biggest flaw in our Panth - Caste bashing. I was born a Sikh and i will leave this earth Sikh.

If you thought the situation was so distressing, why did you not consult a leading commitee member of the GuruGhar in question? Or maybe even a member of the "Community" in question? But instead you come online and tell everyone else about your distress? Its more proactive to deal with these issues head on and not wait X amount of days after the situation you've been placed in has finished.

Petty issues such as where men and women choose where and how to sit are what are destroying the Panth. If we carry on as we are right now - how long do you think Sikhi will survive? A huge number of our youth already have little or no knowledge about Sikh History.

Its up to us afterall to better the Panth afterall, no? To better educate OURSELVES and THEN OTHERS isnt a key aspect within Sikhi, no?

My family have never had Anand Karaj after noon but because a select few does then the whole Bhatra community are to be blamed?

Get up and help the Panth rather than posting your bad experiences online. Make a difference. If You and I dont do it who will? Nobody.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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It might be common for weddings to be performed late afternoon and evenings among the bhatra community in India but it certainly isn't something that would ever be tolerated by the jatt sikh community both in India and abroad
That pretty much sums up your level of thinking :rolleyes:
Never in my life heard the term 'janj' before yesterday
You need to get out more son!
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Never in my life heard the term 'janj' before yesterday, but even in other sikh communities the bharat is nearly always late.....but no other community deliberately sets out to have the anand karaj as late as possible and is so proud of it even advertises the fact on the wedding invitation card.

Secondly, I fail to see why bhatra such as balait da sher think its perfectly normal in sikhi for men and women to be totally seperated and segregated.

Fropm what I saw, in that community, sikhi is seen as purely a male thing, and even then the only requirement is for the male to wear a pagh.

These bhatras are sikhs......But not as we know it Jim.

These bhatres, that bhatra no wonder people confine themselves to their own caste and the panth is in the situation it is in.

Janj is the correct way of saying barat. Barat is actually hindi.

What makes you think bhatra community deliberatly sets out to have anand karaj late? How is mention of the time on the card an advertisement which the sender is proud off?

Look i tried to answer your questions honestly so that you can get a better understanding of Bhatre customs. In my wedding, both men and women danced together. Most gurdwaras in the west have women and men separate at the gurdwara. Only in india you have family members sit together. My family and everyone i know follows this way when in uk and when in india. In india families sit together in Gurdwaras.

"These bhatras are sikhs".... just like every other sikh. We have many flaws but who doesnt?

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caste isnt really that much of an issue here. am sure if you attended weddings of other castes you could also nit pick and find fault. the time issue is also not significant, most weddings take place later then expected. you talk about segregation, but you yourself are segregating based upon your views. your comparing jatts and other castes, which is such a flawed argument its ridiculous . if you think that your argument takes the view point of a true sikh, you need to reconsider your stance.

posting on here is hardly going to make the world of difference, if you was so shocked why not approach someone there and then and try have an positive impact if you felt so strongly about it. if your basing all this on attending one wedding, isnt that a case of tarring everybody with the same brush.

your post and views dont reflect those of a true sikh

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'Bharaat' and 'Janj' mean the same thing and are used inter-changeably. One word is not particular to any single caste or community.

Anand Karaj should ideally be done in the morning for reasons of raag. However it is superstition to be strict about timing.

I'm jatt and the news about not standing for afternoon Anand Karaj is nonsence. In Punjab the situation is the same. Often the bharaat may travel from afar and despite the best intentions for the 11am Anand Karaj, it often occurs 1-2 hrs late.

'Men only bharaats and strict segregation of sexes during the wedding' - Again, as a Jatt, go and ask the older generations - this was the norm back in their day and is therefore not exclusive to individual communities.

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I'll tell you what...talk to any sikh in any area of the UK where there is a large bhatra population (Southampton, Manchester, Bristol, Cardiff, Portsmouth and Edinburgh) and you will not find one that is able to say a good word about them. Both my mother and mother in law are amritdhari and they are utterly ashamed of the bhatras as sikhs. Most of you here, have no idea what you're talking about. You don't live alongside them and you have no idea of their ways and background. In Southampton itself there, with a 50/50 split between the bhatras with their dravidian background and potohari Punjabi and the Jatts/Ramgharias/Khatris/ Kamboj etc, there is virtualy no interaction between these two groups. Bhatras are considered such outcastes no other sikh community mixes with them, because of their strange ways.

The rest of you can bury your head in the sand as much as you want. Clearly your views are not in line with 99.9% of sikhs you'll meet in real life outside of this cyber world. Outside of the cyber world I have yet to meet a non bhatra with a good word to say about the bhatras.

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Firstly i must say i am absolutely disgusted to have you as a brother.

Yes i do mix within the Bhatra community - Yes i know the stereotypes set on the community. But to blacken the faces of all members of the "community"?

You my brother are a disgrace. If you had even one slightest bit of sense you would join the "community" and share your views. Im sure you are here under a secondary alias as i remember so clearly another member and his mother having these issues with Bhatre.

Open your mouth and share your issues with the community - not with a forum.

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what an <banned word filter activated>, you talk rubbish. im just glad that you hold an minority view, having people such as you representing sikhs goes against the fundamental principles of sikhi itself. its as if the point of your post is to prove that your better then everyone else, thats good for you. continue with it, and tell your mum and mother in law to do the same. see where it gets you. you dont represent the views of singhs, rather you represent the views of some rss figure.

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Guest HaRdKaUrWaRrIoRz

I'll tell you what...talk to any sikh in any area of the UK where there is a large bhatra population (Southampton, Manchester, Bristol, Cardiff, Portsmouth and Edinburgh) and you will not find one that is able to say a good word about them. Both my mother and mother in law are amritdhari and they are utterly ashamed of the bhatras as sikhs. Most of you here, have no idea what you're talking about. You don't live alongside them and you have no idea of their ways and background. In Southampton itself there, with a 50/50 split between the bhatras with their dravidian background and potohari Punjabi and the Jatts/Ramgharias/Khatris/ Kamboj etc, there is virtualy no interaction between these two groups. Bhatras are considered such outcastes no other sikh community mixes with them, because of their strange ways.

The rest of you can bury your head in the sand as much as you want. Clearly your views are not in line with 99.9% of sikhs you'll meet in real life outside of this cyber world. Outside of the cyber world I have yet to meet a non bhatra with a good word to say about the bhatras.

guys no point in wasting ur time with this punk, clearly his view is not sikhi like, and hes dumb enuff to label an entire occupational background as one lolll as if there is no variation amongst ppl , you can find good and bad sikhs in everyone, go to vancouver BC and you will see balwant singh gill a "jatt" who is allowing drunk babeh in the langar hall who eat meat and all langar is served on table and chairs and how mcuh fuss this has raised in the sikh community, whether your ancestral occupational background was that of a farmer, businessman or w/e ..so now what ??this guy and his followers and other leaders like him who are also jatt are divided from the rest of the community who dont see eye to eye with them on this and the other side is also composed of jatts

its really idiotic, uneducated and narrow minded for anyone to blame a whole ``community`` , being the same..there is good in bad in every race, culture etc..

seems like you came to the wrong place cus this is SIKHsangat, not hindu sangat, if you want to play the name your caste game you can start your own hindusangat somewhere else ..

and i dont liek this whole attitude towards "jatt" ppl either, dotn label all of us as one, ppl from other castes also have their own egos and attitudes, if you are a sikh then u wudnt label anyone, a jatt, tarkhan , noone as being in those "castes" and u wudnt bad mouth someone based on that either, whether its directly or indirectly, theres no " typical mentality" for anyone, each person is diff, isnt this something we were taught in pre-school? that we are all diff ??

no point in wasting time with u, ur done on this topic as far as im concerned, you should be ashamed of urself for chickening out and not speaking up when the event was taking place, now ur too late and ur jsut showing us how much of a loser u were for not standing up for whats right, a real gursikh wud never be able to take that kind of disrespect infront of their eyes towards guru granth sahib ji, in that you showed us how much of a ``concerned soorma whose ready to take action`` u really are

pce

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I think this thread is more about dissing other people rather than the discussing the issue of Anand Karaj being held late.

Seems like castism is being practiced in higher level in other countries than in india these days..

Thread Closed.

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