Watch Out Nindaks

[BhForce]

Bhforce, you got her so confused only thing she could say was oh dear.

When traditional Sikhs cite anything at all from our tradition, opponents of Dasmesh Bani like to say to "Your Guru isn't Guru Granth Sahib, Your Guru is Gurbilas Pa: 10, your Guru is Suraj Parkash, your Guru is Sant so-and-so, your Guru is some Jathedar."

Yet at the same time, they love to say that Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us to follow Guru Granth Sahib.

How can they possibly say this when they've rejected all the oral and written sources for this!

I was trying to get UKGuptKaur to take a stand one way or the other. Whatever she did, she would have been ensnared. So that's why I think she preferred not to state her basis for Guru Granth Sahib's Gurgaddi.

Note: It's one thing to say there might be some problems here and there with some of our history, but it's quite another to reject it wholesale.

[khalsaland]

Khalsaland, Hardkaurwarriorz

The reason for taking the time to engage UKGuptKaur is to put the arguments for Sikhi as we've known it for the past 300 years out there. Many, many Sikhs are drowning in Kala Afghanism, which is almost everywhere these days. They need to know these points.

As well, it gives us a chance to hone our debating skills, which, all too often we have to use in our own families. Many times a Singh posts a piece of information which is handy to have. And you can't have a debate if you don't have an antagonist.

I also hold out the hope (however tiny) that the misleaded (such as UKGuptKaur) will come back; we will welcome you with love because God is always forgiving to those who repent. Sukhmani Sahib says even the slanderers can rise if the True Ones desire it.

Moderators: Please don't close this thread, and please don't ban UKGuptKaur. If you ban her, everyone can point to that as the reason she wasn't able to respond. If you don't ban her, we can say that she had no response, and that's why she didn't respond.

Agreed! You know there are millions of similar threads where a nindak sparks a debate and his/her questions are well answered. But again we see the same question being asked and the whole cycle starts again.

I believe you have given some good answers to her queries. If it is not a big job, can you please make it as general Q&A and then post it on a blog/website. Then it will there for everyone to see and one doesnt need to go and dig into forums to find the answers. I agree the Kale Afghanis post similar questions. And their questions are not more than 20-30....Easy to answer!

I guess Dasam Quest on patshahi10.org was also started for the same reason

[BhForce]

Khalsaland, I've freely taken arguments from others, and others are free to take anything posted here.

Anybody up for such seva?

In general, if you're ever in a debate with an opponent of Dasam Granth, just ask them to prove the assertion that Guru Gobind Singh ji gave Gurgaddi to Guru Granth Sahib.

While this assertion is true, an opponent of Dasam Bani can't prove it without appealing to sources which will unravel his whole argument.

This is, I believe, the reason the editor of Spokesman has renounced Guru Granth Sahib. It's because he has realised there is no way to assert the validity of Guru Sahib without appealing to sources which also validate Dasmesh Bani.

[Mehtab Singh]

Excuse me? Did I even mention you anywhere? Why the insecurity?Or you are admitting that you are a nindak?

Someones been messing around with the date of birth on my profile??

Some ones been toying with others ages??.....guess who

If you believe I'm the nindak then I'm the nindak.....stop playing games with me...I grow tired if your petty childish endeavours.

And what makes you think I would find the time to do such dumb things? You want to take this elsewhere, send me a private message and we'll sort it out.

[Jag_Singh]

Nope you caused this problem....so you send it me :D :D

[Mehtab Singh]

Nope you caused this problem....so you send it me :D :D

yaar ki majaak aa

emi pangey lei janna

menu hor koi kamm nai?

menu pagal samjheya tera birthday naale umar badlunga mai?

inna nai hajay mai vella

[UKGupt Kaur]

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj!!

Exactly and yet we are busy with other bani besides Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Only Bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is "Gurbani".

The above is a prevert logic fabricated by sex offender kala afghana.

Bani of all gurus is Gurbani. Those who do not agree to that should form a separate sect just like nirankaris.

radhasoamis.

Guru Gobind Singh jee gave "GURUSHIP" to Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee therefore Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee IS "GURBANI" from now on. We metha thek ONLY to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee as its now our "Guru" [Guru = Bani and Bani = Guru.]

bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]

baanee guroo guroo hai baanee vich baanee a(n)mrith saarae ||

The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.

guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5]

gur baanee kehai saevak jan maanai parathakh guroo nisathaarae ||5||

If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||

Though we may read from Bhai Gurdas jee vaarans or Bachitar natak etc , this does not mean that these writtings equal to Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee (Gurbani ie Shabad Guru).

The tenth Nanak sanctioned Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee to be our final Guru and therefore we know that to realise Naam (ie God) is to realise God through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Guru jee gave us Gurbani in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee as means to directly and easily realise Naam.

AKrI nwmu AKrI swlwh ]

akharee naam akharee saalaah ||

From the Word, comes the Naam; from the Word, comes Your Praise.

AKrI igAwnu gIq gux gwh ]

akharee giaan geeth gun gaah ||

From the Word, comes spiritual wisdom, singing the Songs of Your Glory.

AKrI ilKxu bolxu bwix ]

akharee likhan bolan baan ||

From the Word, come the written and spoken words and hymns.

http://sikhitothemax...asp?ShabadID=19

Inder singh has been trying to say otherwise. He is therefore a nindhak going against the instructions that Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee is our final Guru (Shabad Guru/Gurbani). Guru Nanak Dev jee early on made this fact known to us that Shabad Guru is our Guru.

If I am not mistaken, Inder singh is also implying that one can only receive naam by 5 piareys. He is basically saying that naam is not everyones right.

What he does not know is that naam is already in all of us. Naam is basically synonymous to Shabad Guru, Gurbani, essence and power of God, atma/jyot, hukam, etc etc.

jyqw kIqw qyqw nwau ]

jaethaa keethaa thaethaa naao ||

The created universe is the manifestation of Your Name.

ivxu nwvY nwhI ko Qwau ]

vin naavai naahee ko thhaao ||

Without Your Name, there is no place at all.http://sikhitothemax...asp?ShabadID=19

Naam is not only in us its also all around us and Naam is basically the Sargun and Nirgun form of God.

gur prswdI vyKu qU hir mMdru qyrY nwil ]

gur parasaadhee vaekh thoo har ma(n)dhar thaerai naal ||

By Guru's Grace, see that the Temple of the Lord is within you.

hir mMdru sbdy KojIAY hir nwmo lyhu sm@wil ]1]

har ma(n)dhar sabadhae khojeeai har naamo laehu samhaal ||1||

The Temple of the Lord is found through the Word of the Shabad; contemplate the Lord's Name. ||1||

mn myry sbid rpY rMgu hoie ]

man maerae sabadh rapai ra(n)g hoe ||

O my mind, be joyfully attuned to the Shabad.

scI Bgiq scw hir mMdru pRgtI swcI soie ]1] rhwau ]

sachee bhagath sachaa har ma(n)dhar pragattee saachee soe ||1|| rehaao ||

True is devotional worship, and True is the Temple of the Lord; True is His Manifest Glory. ||1||Pause||

hir mMdru eyhu srIru hY igAwin rqin prgtu hoie ]

har ma(n)dhar eaehu sareer hai giaan rathan paragatt hoe ||

This body is the Temple of the Lord, in which the jewel of spiritual wisdom is revealed.

mnmuK mUlu n jwxnI mwxis hir mMdru n hoie ]2]

manamukh mool n jaananee maanas har ma(n)dhar n hoe ||2||

The self-willed manmukhs do not know anything at all; they do not believe that the Lord's Temple is within. ||2||http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=4885

If I am not mistaken, Inder Singh is also implying that Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee is unable to provide us with certain things like certain powers (shakti) and therefore demeaning the power of Gurbani. He is implying that Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee's Guru Mat is not good enough or powerful enough that we need writtings like charitar pakhian to provide the missing link to make us "khalsa (pure)" !

Though my intitial comment yesterday may have confused some, Inder singh knew exactly what it was all about hence his reply made not long after. My observations of inder singh are gathered from reading his posts from various sikh sites and over several months.

[Guest Bloom]

In My Opinion,

I would like to say that Kaur should only be used by those who have taken Khande-Pahul by Panj Pyreh. Though as 'culture and tradition' punjabis use Kaur and Singh, in Khalsa Dharma Singh and Kaur were Names bestowed upon Khande-Pahul Amrit By Panj Pyareh. How Great is Guru Gobind Singh Ji? HIMSELF took Name; Singh; AFTER Khande-Pahul by Panj Pyareh!! Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji!!

GuruGranth Sahib Ji Jagat Guru. Jyot of Guru. Khalsa is Jugati. Jugati is Very Important. Without Jugati, There is No Balance, no equilibrium in Life, nor a Principled Lifestyle. GuruGranth Sahib Ji is VERY DEEP. Even a Million Lifetimes and still an iota of GuruGranth Sahib would not be able to be comprehended. The Spiritual States within GuruGranth Sahib Ji are Most Exalted! The Jyot of Guru is GuruGranth Sahib Ji.

Khalsa is Jugati. From Dasam Patshah Bani the Martial Spirit is Learnt. Without Martial Spirit, Saints get plundered. And without the Saint Spirit, The Strong can be Evil. So First comes The Saint; then Comes the Warrior. Miri and Piri. Saint and Soldier. Bhagti and Shakti. Jyot and Jugati.

GuruGranth Sahib Ji is for The Whole World to Learn and Become Saints. But Not Everyone Can Be Khalsa. So Dasam Patshah Bani is For Khalsa. For the Warrior. But the Warrior of Guru Gobind Singh, The True Singhs and Kaurs, are Saints First. That is why it is GuruGranth Sahib Ji; the Guru of the Warriors as Well. From Sri Harmandir Sahib (Bhagti) One Cannot See Sri Akal Takhat Sahib (Shakti). But From Sri Akal Takhat Sahib (Shakti) one Can See Sri Harmandir Sahib (Bhagti). Bhagti is the Foundation of the Shakti of Khalsa. GuruGranth Sahib Ji is Always Guru of The Khalsa! The Khalsa Also are Given a Special Technology including Scripture for Jugati which Combines Bhagti and Shakti, making Khalsa; Dasam Patshah Bani!

For Example: Guru Sahib Gave us GuruGranth Sahib Ji. Pooran Jyot Guru. GuruGranth Sahib Ji is to be Sung in Raags. For these Raags Guru Gave us Instruments. But these instruments are outside from Sri GuruGranth Sahib Ji. But they are still given to us to live GuruGranth Sahib Ji. These instruments include Rabab, Saranda, Saranghi, Taous, Dilruba, Joree, Nagaara, etc. In the Same Way, our Guru Gave us Shastar (weapons), and Jugati that is DERIVED from Sri GuruGranth Sahib Ji; this includes Scripture for the Jugati of Khalsa Lifestyle. Few Scriptures for Jugati of Khalsa Lifestyle Include Of Course Dasam Patshah Bani; which will live in the Hearts of Khalsa Forever. We are also given Bhai Gurdas Ji Bani, Bhai Nand Lal Singh Bani, Bhai Gurdas Singh Bani, Banis; Banis that are APPROVED by our Guru Themselves. This makes up Tat-Gurmat. An entire Technology that includes Scriptures that is APPROVED by Our Gurus' From Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh Ji; with the GURU; GuruGranth Sahib Ji.

Another Example: Our Gurus began the Martial Spirit of Wrestling, Horse Riding, Weapons Training, Langar, and many more beautiful Jugatis for Sikhs. These Jugatis Encompass GuruGranth Sahib Ji, are part of a Technology provided to Sikhs, and will be Forever!

Further Example: Our Guru Provided us with an entire new Community. This community includes a Flag, a Government, a Governing Body, Code of Conduct, Rules and Regulations for Conduct of Individual Life and Social Obligations, etc..etc.. Love of Weapons, Horses, a Martial Spirit, Celebrations, etc..etc.. Guru Gave us an ENTIRE Technology so that His Sikhs Will Never Need any other Support for Mental, Spiritual, Emotional, Societal, Cultural, Governing Rules, etc..etc.. An Entire Technology was Provided to the Sikhs Forever! Our Guru Is EXTREMELY LONG TERM THINKING!! Gave an Entire Technology for Past, Present and Future. Sikhs Will Never Need to Look Outside for ANYTHING. GuruGranth Sahib Ji is Our Guru; Our Center; Our Core. And along with our Center; Our Core; the Guru Gave us an Outside; a Technology; a Lifestyle; Jugati; Love for Weaponry, Love for Horses, Love for Shastar (weapon) and Shaastar (Divine Knowledge); and The Guru Gave us Scriptures Approved by Our Gurus' Themselves! Though the Khalsa is Centered Around GuruGranth Sahib Ji! Our Guru Provided Us with An Outer Shell as Well; Jugati (including Scriptures such as Dasam Patshah Bani! Bhai Gurdas Ji Bani, Bhai Nand Lal Singh Bani, Bhai Gurdas Singh Bani, Banis; to Protect Our Core; Guru!!

Our Guru Gave us a Uniform, a Flag, a Governing Body, a Government System, and Many More! Guru Started a New Panth. Panth means a Whole New Community. Communities are Complex; they require very Complex Variables. The Guru Provided an Entire Technology including Dasam Patshah Bani! GuruGranth Sahib Ji is The Core of Khalsa (Bhagti); Dasam Patshah Bani is the Inner and Jugati of Khalsa (including Shakti).

About Naam: Naam is Not Name. Naam is Beyond Words. Khalsa/Sikh is a Dharma. It involves a Gurmantar. It involves Deekya. It involves Sikya. It is very Complex. From Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Rai; The Gurmantar, The Gur Deekya, The Gur Sikya, etc. was Done Through Charnamrit by Guru To Sikh. From Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Rai a Very Complex Philosophy and Way of Life was Established. Guru Gobind Singh Ji FINALIZED the Final Roop of This Panth. The Final Form. This Final Form is Called Khalsa. The Gurmantar, Gur Deekya, Gur Sikhya Parampara was to Remain the Same as Per Khalsa Dharma; but Now Guru Passed This Right to the Panj Pyareh! And Thus Finalized to Remove All Doubts for Ever; Guru Gobind Rai Became Guru Gobind Singh through Khande-Pahul Amrit by Panj Pyareh. The Spirit of Akal Purakh Works Through This. Therefore the Naam is Now from Rehitvaan Panj Pyareh which includes the Gift of Gurmantar, Gur Deekya, Gur Sikya, etc..

Do Not Doubt This. Khalsa Has Been Given an ENTIRE Complex Technology! A Brand New PANTH!!!!!

Chardi Kala!!!!!

[Only five]

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj!!

Exactly and yet we are busy with other bani besides Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Only Bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is "Gurbani".

The above is a prevert logic fabricated by sex offender kala afghana.

Bani of all gurus is Gurbani. Those who do not agree to that should form a separate sect just like nirankaris.

radhasoamis.

Guru Gobind Singh jee gave "GURUSHIP" to Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee therefore Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee IS "GURBANI" from now on. We metha thek ONLY to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee as its now our "Guru" [Guru = Bani and Bani = Guru.]

This is the whole bases of your arguement, but what don't you get. Your have rejected what you proclaim as your base. You reject Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Bani and in doing so you have also rejected Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Hukam of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is Guru. You can't pick a choose what you want of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's.

So the last 6 pages or so of your rant hold no merit. You could present any Bani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and it don't matter because where does it say Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru.

The fact you add Kaur to your name comes from Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. Tell me where in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji it says to add Kaur. Tell me where it say to say Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

[Inder Singh]

If I am not mistaken, Inder singh is also implying that one can only receive naam by 5 piareys. He is basically saying that naam is not everyones right.

What he does not know is that naam is already in all of us. Naam is basically synonymous to Shabad Guru, Gurbani, essence and power of God, atma/jyot, hukam, etc etc.

UK Guptkaur

You have revealed your ignorance again. In sikhism the only way to take naam is from Panj piaras. There is no other way.

You are brain washed by kala fghna's atheist ideology. Try to learn something instead of wasting your time and others also.

If naam is already in you what are you doing here?

We are talking about taking naam in sikhism.