Kakkar

[Sarbloh Soulja]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

In Bhai Desa Singh Jees REhatnama it is written that keski is a kakkar instead of kes, but then again in other rehatnamai, like bhai daya singhz it says that kes is a kakkar, but im not sure whoch one would be rite, my friend has done alot of research into this topic and has come to the near conclusion that keski is a kakkar instead of kes, but i am still not sure, can anyone provide any facts to prove that it is or is not a kakkar?.....wat do u all think about it?

:T: raz :g

[Guest SikhForLife]

it doesnt matter whether its kakaar or not

the important thing is..

Guru gobind singh jee told us to wear it.

so there

[Akaali]

Shottay Veer, Ofcourse its important.... B)

Guru Gobind Singh ji blessed us with panj kakaar.

Kes

Kangha

Kara

Kirpan

Kachehra

People say keski is a kakaar So if I cut my hair and put a keski on my head does that make it ok? Does that make me 'khalsa', the pure one? Am I a true sikh of my Guru?

No it doesn't make it right, no matter who says keski is a kakaar! Who is he/she to say what our kakaar are? He's not my Guru, therefore I couldn't care less about what he has to say.

Asankh moorakh andh ghor || - Countless fools who spread blindness

You shouldn't just jump on the bandwagon, and beleive in what someone said instead of what your Guru, your father, Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj told you!

There's so much proooof that 'kes' is a kakaar, its a seal of our Guru, why wouldn't it be?

[Guest SikhForLife]

sorry jee

tusi bilkul theek ho

but didnt Gur Gobind singh jee did tell us to wear a keski

whether we call it kakaar or part of our uniform shouldnt matter.. as long as we wear it

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

I'm not really in favor of getting into this debate but just want to clarify something.

People say keski is a kakaar So if I cut my hair and put a keski on my head does that make it ok? Does that make me 'khalsa', the pure one? Am I a true sikh of my Guru?

Bhai Sahib, you have to first understand the meaning of keski. According to simple punjabi language definition, keski means something which is of kesh. So cutting your hair and wearing a keski over the top just defeats the purpose. Moreover, according to the Mahan Kosh, keski means the smaller turban which is worn for the protection and care of the hair on one's head.

No it doesn't make it right, no matter who says keski is a kakaar! Who is he/she to say what our kakaar are? He's not my Guru, therefore I couldn't care less about what he has to say.

Those who take keski as kakkar are actually told so by the Punj Pyare!

I'm not writing this post because I favor keski to be a kakkar, but because I hate when people with no knowledge of this issue come forward and post their views. Follow

what the Punj Pyare told you and let others follow what they were told. We are not in the position to tell who is right or wrong.

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

[Akaali]

Sikhforlife veer

I agree its not that important, its not like if you think one is better over the other Waheguru's going to accept you. So instead concentrate on the bigger picture rite?

SOGGS

because I hate when people with no knowledge of this issue come forward and post their views.

Veerji, I'm the biggest moorakh on this forum, everything that comes I spit out. I just put my opinion out, sorry if I've offended you in any way.

Daas: Daljeet Singh

[Mkhalsa]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Veer jee,

This debate is endless, but I will provide you with some information. cutting of Kes is a Bujjar Kurait. So no matter what you cannot disrespect kes.

Notice this, if you cut your kesh you must pesh but if you drop your kanga you just do an ardas. Why is kes better? because it is not a kakkar it is higher than that. Keski is the kakkar as all other kakars are external.

Before the 1940s Keski was required by akal takht for men and women to take amrit. Gurmukh Singh Musafir became jathedar and his own wife refused to wear keski, therefore he could not tell others to wear keski when his own wife did not. So a rule was made that every other week women can take amrit at akal takht sahib without keski. And from there it spread. (This is historically documented).

Men and women are equal in sikhi, yet women do not wear dastar.. why not? why this split?

So we can all agree keski is at least a part of rehat, even damdami taksal says this. It is an important requirement.

Along with Bhai Desa Singh Jee, Bhai chaupa singh jee says

Kach, Kara, Kirpan, Kangha, Keski, Eh Panj Kakkari Rahit Dharay Sikh Soeey

I dont think it can be more straightforward than that. Also, all the bhatt vehis (first hand accounts) mention keski or kesghi (alternate spelling) and none mention kes as kakkar they do mention the instruction not to cut kes though.

Some of the most convincing passages from the first hand accounts of 1699 read like this: "Assigning the word Singh first to his own name and thence to the names of all the Five Chosen Sikhs, Guru ji called out Fateh (the victory sal

utation) and raised aloud the spirited chant of Sat Sri Akal.

"Thereafter, Guru ji pronounced, ‘on your rebirth in the Khalsa Panth, your previous lineage, caste, creed, calling, customs, beliefs and superstitions, etc. stand annulled from now onwards. Transforming you into the Order of Khalsa, I have endowed you with the apparel of the Almighty God, you shall have to keep its honour. Before administering this nectar of steel, I also bestowed you with five kakaars (Ks, i.e. defining emblems). You have never to keep them away from your body even by mistake. I gave you, at the start, a blue keski, kangha, kirpan, sarbloh ka kara and white kachhehra. In the event of the loss or misplacement of any of these, get its infringement pardoned in the Sangat by going to Gurdwara without any delay."

Another account by a different bhatt in the same records reads: "Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Tenth Guru, son of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji, in the year Seventeen Hundred Fifty Two, on Tuesday - the Vaisakhi day - gave Khande-Ki-Pahul to Five Sikhs and surnamed them as Singhs. First Daya Ram Sopti, Khatri resident of Lahore stood up. Then Mohkam Chand Calico Printer of Dawarka; Sahib Chand Barber of Zafrabad city; Dharam Chand Jawanda Jat of Hastnapur; Himmat Chand Water Carrier of Jagannath stood up one after the other. All were dressed in blue and he himself also dressed the same way. Huqqah, Halaal, Hajaamat, Haraam, Tikka, Janeyu, Dhoti, were prohibited. Socialization with the descendants of Prithi chand (Meenay), followers of Dhirmal and Ram Rai, clean shaven people and Masands was prohibited. All were given Kangha, Karad (***Karad is synonomous with kirpaan***), KESGI, Kada and Kachhehra. All were made Keshadhari. Everyone's place of birth was told to be Patna, of residence as Anandpur. Rest, Guru's deeds are known only to the Satguru. Say Guru! Guru! Guru! Guru will help everywhere."

In the story of how Satguru Gobind Singh jee iniated Baba Banda Singh Bahadur in the pu

raatan Guru Keeaan Sakheean, it is written that Guru jee himself tied a "keskee" on his head.

Other rehitnamas such as Bh. Daya Singh insist that all Sikhs should wear dastaar, but the Bhat Vehis leave no doubt that Keskee is a kakaar. The interesting feature of the rehitnamas however is that they themselves acknowledge that they are not authoritative and complete sources for rehit. In more than one rehitnama you'll find a disclaimer that the complete rehit is that which was given by the punj pyaaray, the one written is just a supplement. Not any of the authoritative rehitnamas actually give a list of the "five kakaars". This is only found in the puraatan Bhatt Vehis.

Overall, the historical writings leave no doubt that Keskee is a kakaar. In fact, wherever the term "kakaar" has been found in historical writings, keskee is listed as one.

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

Veerji, I'm the biggest moorakh on this forum, everything that comes I spit out. I just put my opinion out, sorry if I've offended you in any way.

Bhai Sahib, that was not intended towards you but to those like myself.

[Deep Singh]

Huqqah, Halaal, Hajaamat, Haraam, Tikka, Janeyu, Dhoti, were prohibited.

Were both Halaal AND Haraam prohibited......therefore all meat is prohibited (or perhaps jatka of Nihangs and puraantan Hindus still is a different type?)

Anyway Thanks Veerjee....very good....

i think both Kes and Keski are equally important.....

[gurkiya_sakhiya]

no meat simpleee ji..

both are killin of animal!

and on this meat issue..once i was jus sitting(with Guru sahibans kirpa i dont eat meat) but once when i was sitting, i was like to my self...hmm u dont eat meat, but look at ur shoes, look at ur purse, look at ur belt..and otthers tuff...most of these things are made up of leather(skin of animels)

then i m like..

Guru sahiban prolly have woren moojay(shoes, as kids we used to call them mooojay, cute name for leather shoes)..and they were made up of leather tooo...so how come u dont eat it(are u being hyprocret)!..u know...

im thinking and thinking..and all the sudden the tuk comes in the casset,

i forgot what the tuk was now, but it was an answer from Akal ji for me(u dont have to belive this, but waheguru ji always answwers our question if we ask..we jus dont notice it sometimes i guess)

the tuk was comparing human with animal.

i think its kabier jis but dont know

it was tellin ..oh human, animal is better then u if u dont do what u supoose to do... if u dont do nam simran, ur body jus goes to waste, no use of it at all after u die muurakh, but look...look at animals, they better then u oh human, at least their body comes in use after they die..(for shoes, for all kind of leather stuff)

it was jus soo touchin...

iwas like

..murakh mannaaa kio menu kharrab karnn lagg hoyia maya pichay lagg kay. kio stupid galla vich ja riha. jus do what u hear to do, why u questioning Guru.... who is the only supposet u got to make ur life saffly! insead of thanking Akal for giving u birth in such a great place..and then in such a beautiful godhii(lap, of Guru sahib, sikhi)... u questionin it like

it is less then ur muutt????

i mean so much to say and be thakful of..but u stupid mun..u gettin into mayas web, can't u see?

that was teh day when i stopped question bout meat, and realized jus follow what Panj piiray will say to u when u take amrit, pray to Guru sahiban to always protect u, be everywhere ..and never let doubts come in ur mind..oh pray my soul, my mind pray(else u will be lost again..and Guru tells u how life is without Guru..know it, KNOW IT WELL SO U DONT QUESTION UR GURU AGAIN.BE ASHEMD OF UR SELF..that u had doubts bout SATGURU) Follwo His true hukum and u will taken saflly to th eother end to the beloved....

iwill stop here ji...can go on and on may be, but vaheguru is the one who puts sumat in us...His Kirpa. vaheguru

bhul chukk muaff karni..

if i said anything wrong plz forgive me...i can go on and on..but then again dont want those choors to come near me and fill me up..and take me away from My Preetam ji

waheguru